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-   -   Communication Issues between young and elder, alike! (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108758)

Dracovyrn 07-19-2013 11:12 AM

Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Alright, so I have come across this problem a few times whilst posting here on the forum, and wanted to shed some light on the subject. As a young man, my form of communication differs from that of older folk. The difference can be an issue, especially when the other person might not comprehend what you're saying and misconstrue the entire meaning of it. As a young person, we have made a commonly understood way of accurately conveying the meaning of messages by using simple, yet effective devices called "Emoticons." Now, I understand that not everyone here is from the stone age. ;) You all know what they are. But do you truly understand them? Do you know how to correctly and accurately use them? Or do you refuse to use them, because it diminishes your sense of "Professionality?" Does it really matter when someone is hurt by what you say, even if you didn't mean it at all? Just some thoughts to help people come to understand each other better. ;)

BacteriumFendYoke 07-19-2013 12:31 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
I hate them.

I'm a younger person.

It's got nothing to do with age.

Magenta 07-19-2013 01:01 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
I use them in a limited way, to reinforce something I'm saying, so I might write "Thank you, that helps :) "

I don't rely on what are, after all, nothing more than a grouping of punctuation marks alone to communicate the inflexion of my voice or my facial expression, so I wouldn't use them in an attempt to turn a sarcastic comment into a light-hearted one, unless I knew the person I was addressing very, very well - and I don't know anybody on here sufficiently.

When they are used in that way, I find it a bit arrogant (for want of a better word) because the writer is expecting the reader to make the effort to understand what s/he means, whereas I think the onus is on the writer to make him/herself clear. Having a joke and a laugh can often be done far better orally than in writing. My personal rule of thumb: if it reads snidey, sarky or mean without the emoticon, re-write it until it doesn't.

Edited to answer your last question: yes it does matter, by and large, if you could have said it in a way that wasn't hurtful. The only exception that I can think of off the top of my head is if the other person took offence because they were determined to do so when nobody else would have.

Jonny Sumo 07-19-2013 01:07 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Magenta (Post 1162207)
I use them in a limited way, to reinforce something I'm saying, so I might write "Thank you, that helps :) "

I don't rely on what are, after all, nothing more than a grouping of punctuation marks alone to communicate the inflexion of my voice or my facial expression, so I wouldn't use them in an attempt to turn a sarcastic comment into a light-hearted one, unless I knew the person I was addressing very, very well - and I don't know anybody on here sufficiently.

When they are used in that way, I find it a bit arrogant (for want of a better word) because the writer is expecting the reader to make the effort to understand what s/he means, whereas I think the onus is on the writer to make him/herself clear. Having a joke and a laugh can often be done far better orally than in writing. My personal rule of thumb: if it reads snidey, sarky or mean without the emoticon, re-write it until it doesn't.

I think that was really well put Magenta. I employ the 'preview post' button (sometimes repeatedly) and make the 'necessary' changes...sometimes I give up without posting as I am not confident I have worded something properly..
I also think you're very accurate with the onus being on the writer as well as the reader...good post.

Magenta 07-19-2013 01:18 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny Sumo (Post 1162210)
I think that was really well put Magenta. I employ the 'preview post' button (sometimes repeatedly) and make the 'necessary' changes...sometimes I give up without posting as I am not confident I have worded something properly..
I also think you're very accurate with the onus being on the writer as well as the reader...good post.

Why, thank you, Jonny :)

And you're dead right about using the "preview post" facility. Sometimes those couple of seconds, and a slightly different look, make a huge difference.

GRUNTERSDAD 07-19-2013 02:03 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
I think an easier method of communicating would be to use proper grammar, Capitalize the names of songs, albums, singers names, books. I have yet to see an emoticon in the dictionary that is my guide to proper spelling and grammar. Probably why smilies and such are not supposed to be used on this forum I think if you have to use one of these, 8+) at the end of every sentence to suggest a joke or sarcasm then your writing skills need improvement. 8+)

JustJames 07-19-2013 02:24 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Although I am somebody who understands emoticons, despite being more old fart than young Turk, I take delight in the English language. Emoticons are useful when character space is limited - not an issue on DW.

People can mis-interpret what you have written. I know because it's happened to me on here.

Emoticons aren't the answer. Clearer expression is the answer. Getting known will also help, and I like to think that I was mis-interpreted because of my relative newness around here.

Here's another useful suggestion: Don't convey in a post what you wouldn't say to a person's face.

brady 07-19-2013 02:49 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 1162220)
I think an easier method of communicating would be to use proper grammar, Capitalize the names of songs, albums, singers names, books. I have yet to see an emoticon in the dictionary that is my guide to proper spelling and grammar. Probably why smilies and such are not supposed to be used on this forum I think if you have to use one of these, 8+) at the end of every sentence to suggest a joke or sarcasm then your writing skills need improvement. 8+)

Exactly.

It makes me think that in 10 years, forum messages will be written in nothing but text message shorthand.

dmacc 07-19-2013 03:35 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1162202)
I hate them.

I'm a younger person.

It's got nothing to do with age.

That makes at least two of us.....

By the way, I'm more middle-aged.

Jonny Sumo 07-19-2013 03:46 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
I think sometimes people choose to misinterpret what we are trying to say; either by the spoken or written word.
The responsibility then is to ensure that you have acted innocently and appropriately yourself; review what you are trying to say, think about it, think about it from someone elses perspective, and then, if you are comfortable, post.
i dont think that smily faces and the like make a huge difference either way; as has been previously stated so succinctly, if it reads wrong to you it will read wrong to others.

Personally, text talk drives me insane, but that doesn't mean that its inappropriate for use by people.

A little empathy goes a long way....there shouldn't be a 'generation gap' on here really, we are all interested in the same thing

gretsch-o-rama 07-19-2013 04:30 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 1162220)
I think an easier method of communicating would be to use proper grammar, Capitalize the names of songs, albums, singers names, books. I have yet to see an emoticon in the dictionary that is my guide to proper spelling and grammar. Probably why smilies and such are not supposed to be used on this forum I think if you have to use one of these, 8+) at the end of every sentence to suggest a joke or sarcasm then your writing skills need improvement. 8+)

Absolutely this...this might be edging on a stereotype but often they can be accompanied by poor grammar and syntax and a limited vocabulary....and, oh yeah, misspellings! English( or any language for that matter) is a far less limited way of expressing yourself than emoticons.....

Jonny Sumo 07-19-2013 04:38 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gretsch-o-rama (Post 1162280)
....and, oh yeah, misspellings! .....

is that how to spell misspellings? :)......Jonny Sumo; making new friends with his dubious communication skills...

Magenta 07-19-2013 04:52 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny Sumo (Post 1162257)
I think sometimes people choose to misinterpret what we are trying to say; either by the spoken or written word.

The responsibility then is to ensure that you have acted innocently and appropriately yourself

A little empathy goes a long way....there shouldn't be a 'generation gap' on here really, we are all interested in the same thing

I agree with you entirely. As I said before, I feel that the writer has an obligation to be clear, but I also think that the reader should adopt a default position of believing that no offence was intended, resulting (I hope) in that empathy you describe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny Sumo (Post 1162285)
is that how to spell misspellings? :)......Jonny Sumo; making new friends with his dubious communication skills...

You are brightening up my day, sir! :D

Jonny Sumo 07-19-2013 05:18 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Magenta (Post 1162289)


You are brightening up my day, sir! :D

I am so pleased Magenta, I also notice that I am elevated from :) to a :D awesome!

I do have a small issue however; the young man who started this thread seemed to cause some 'offence' in another thread. I am sure that is not his intention, he sems a genuine young man (why do I need to mention his age? Is that even relevant?)

My point is; he mentions in the thread title 'elder', he implies that it is age that causes these 'communication breakdowns' (yes, I am a Zep man) and I must disagree for all the reasons that you and I have agreed upon and that others have stated - what he needs to acknowledge is experience, not age.

I spent 3 very happy years on DW before 'retiring ' myself after a number of forum issues with another, happened to be younger male, member. He was opinionated and impassioned, and quite rightly so, during a discussion about what gigs one would take for money and he was in a position where he lived with his parents etc I took exception as I had done various things in my life to just support my family, not in a musical way, and felt his opinion was less relevant.

Anyway, I now feel a little more vindicated over those exchanges as, I remember very clearly, that young man describing WFD as 'a circus which no self respecting drummer would involve themselves in' (a direct quote); I now read on here that the same young man has been a recent winner at WFD....experience of life and music and relationships, not age.

I was a little ostracised from DW as a result of these 'exchanges' and never came back...I hoped things had improved, and I think they have...but we must all be respectful, polite and empathatic..peace, sorry for ranting..J

Magenta 07-19-2013 06:12 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny Sumo (Post 1162294)
I am so pleased Magenta, I also notice that I am elevated from :) to a :D awesome!

I felt it was the very least you deserved, in the circumstances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny Sumo (Post 1162294)
I do have a small issue however; the young man who started this thread seemed to cause some 'offence' in another thread. I am sure that is not his intention, he sems a genuine young man (why do I need to mention his age? Is that even relevant?)

My point is; he mentions in the thread title 'elder', he implies that it is age that causes these 'communication breakdowns' (yes, I am a Zep man) and I must disagree for all the reasons that you and I have agreed upon and that others have stated - what he needs to acknowledge is experience, not age.

I reckon there definitely is a different culture between the young, from that which exists between the less young. But just as we British have to find a way of expressing ourselves in a way that will be understood by our international DW contingent - which does not mean spelling things differently, or using different words (although it can be helpful to provide translations into American sometimes!), but rather ensuring that our meaning is clear - I can't see why a younger person, especially a literate, articulate one, should have too much difficulty expressing him/herself in a way that can be understood by all other members.

Younger people may be more likely to be very informal and to use emoticons as a form of shorthand. But while this is a friendly and welcoming forum, there is an issue relating to appropriateness. I don't think it is appropriate to speak to what are, essentially, strangers in an overly informal way, and as you say, Jonny, miles on the clock are worthy of recognition, if not necessarily agreement.

If today's contributions are typical, my man, I'm glad you came back! You've had me laffing out loud today!

Jonny Sumo 07-19-2013 06:19 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Magenta (Post 1162329)
I felt it was the very least you deserved, in the circumstances.




If today's contributions are typical, my man, I'm glad you came back! You've had me laffing out loud today!

Don't tell anyone I'm back...they didn't like me before and probably won't etc...glad you're 'laffing' (presume thats the welsh spelling) Magenta; I found that, previously, many peeps took themselves much too seriously on here...not healthy, most chilled person I ever met was Thomas Lang; he wanted to talk about my cd not his career...nice bloke, sloppy drummer..:D

Jonny Sumo 07-19-2013 06:20 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Magenta (Post 1162329)
I felt it was the very least you deserved, in the circumstances.



I reckon there definitely is a different culture between the young, from that which exists between the less young. But just as we British have to find a way of expressing ourselves in a way that will be understood by our international DW contingent - which does not mean spelling things differently, or using different words (although it can be helpful to provide translations into American sometimes!), but rather ensuring that our meaning is clear - I can't see why a younger person, especially a literate, articulate one, should have too much difficulty expressing him/herself in a way that can be understood by all other members.

Younger people may be more likely to be very informal and to use emoticons as a form of shorthand. But while this is a friendly and welcoming forum, there is an issue relating to appropriateness. I don't think it is appropriate to speak to what are, essentially, strangers in an overly informal way, and as you say, Jonny, miles on the clock are worthy of recognition, if not necessarily agreement.

If today's contributions are typical, my man, I'm glad you came back! You've had me laffing out loud today!

I wish I could write like you do...'you had me at hello'....

IDDrummer 07-19-2013 06:27 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
1 Attachment(s)
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bermuda 07-19-2013 06:38 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJames (Post 1162229)
People can mis-interpret what you have written. I know because it's happened to me on here.

Emoticons aren't the answer. Clearer expression is the answer.

Agreed. While age may dictate percpetions and real-world experience, I don't think it must necessarily affect the ability to communicate. Misunderstandings occur among people - of any age - for a variety of reasons, but in a text forum like this, where there is ample opportunity to make a point clear and even go back and clarify (edit) as needed, there's no reason to not get it right the first time, or perhaps with a rewrite.

I think emoticons are fine, but not as a method to spin words or thoughts that should be obvious on their own. If I can't express a thought without having to use an emoticon, then I rethink it in order to make it clear. These things we write with seeming innocence, may last forever and show others what kind of people we are.

:)

Bermuda

Jonny Sumo 07-19-2013 06:47 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bermuda (Post 1162342)
Agreed. While age may dictate percpetions and real-world experience, I don't think it must necessarily affect the ability to communicate. Misunderstandings occur for a variety of reasons, but in a text forum like this, where there is ample opportunity to make a point clear and even go back and clarify (edit) as needed, there's no reason to not get it right.

I think emoticons are fine, but not as a method to spin words or thoughts that should be obvious on their own.

Bermuda

and thats why Bermuda is a moderator and I am still on day release...beautifully put bro

tamadrm 07-19-2013 07:30 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dmacc (Post 1162252)
That makes at least two of us.....

By the way, I'm more middle-aged.

.I'm with Duncan,but I'm not a young guy.I just prefer using typing and speaking the King's to convey my meaning.

I'm not perfect at it by any means and I do make plenty of mistakes.

I post things occasionally than in hindsight,I should have thought about more carefully.But that's why the put erasers on pencils.

You know,pencils,made of of wood and graphite.The kind you can actually write with.:)

Steve B

Dracovyrn 07-19-2013 09:50 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
I have never had a problem writing in full text with the necessary punctuation and grammar. It is not I, who people misinterperet, for I have ways, for both young and old, to functionally convey a message with and without use of emoticons. Although, then I just sound like a robot, right? ;) At least, that's how I feel. I don't use text shorthand. I prefer proper grammar and correctly spelled words. I use the occasional "lol," no different then my mom, or my grandma, really, but not much else. Although, what I do use is emoticons. I typed a sarcastic joke here about the perks of traditional grip, and said, "On the other hand, it looks nice. ;)" and the guy thought I was serious. There are obvious perks to traditional that I understand, like the wider range of sounds from the easily accessible range of possible angled attacks. Some folk just don't understand my humor. It would seem very insulting to someone to have to type out, "On the other hand, it looks nice. -sarcastically" I would rather not have to spoon feed those who don't understand my crude and sometimes 'dark' humour.

Dracovyrn 07-19-2013 09:56 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Everyones thoughts here are interesting. It's ok, I used to think like everyone here. I figured that emoticons were a waste of time when you could just write it out. Although I had to adapt to modern culture to use them, I suppose, mostly out of texting. I never abondoned my grammer nazi ways, I just happened to add in the use of emoticons. I can certainly still convey a message without the use of them. Although, I still feel robotic. Is, "haha" ok to say?

Dracovyrn 07-19-2013 10:19 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 1162220)
I think an easier method of communicating would be to use proper grammar, Capitalize the names of songs, albums, singers names, books. I have yet to see an emoticon in the dictionary that is my guide to proper spelling and grammar. Probably why smilies and such are not supposed to be used on this forum I think if you have to use one of these, 8+) at the end of every sentence to suggest a joke or sarcasm then your writing skills need improvement. 8+)

I didn't use them until I was 14, I can survive without them. My writing skills requires no improvement, I had some of the best writings in my class. It is not that I have work to be done, it is that I have worked on it too much. I have two styles of writing, one is a formal, "work and acquaintances" writing. The other, my informal, "friendly natured" writing. I use the former only when necessary, because I can, better than most my age. The latter is for friendly places (or supposed to be) like this, texting, etc. My question wasn't about me, though. It is because there are some people here that I honestly don't know if they're being playful or not, which can be a problem. I have the ability to effectively convey a message without the use of emoticons. I am doing it now. It's not hard, just longer.

IDDrummer 07-19-2013 10:41 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dracovyrn (Post 1162452)
I never abondoned my grammer nazi ways

Um, you misspelled "abandoned" and "grammar." ;-)

JK, JK, I'm just playing here. It seems that you have a good sense of humor, and I'm the class clown. Hehe!

Magenta 07-19-2013 10:45 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dracovyrn (Post 1162449)
I would rather not have to spoon feed those who don't understand my crude and sometimes 'dark' humour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dracovyrn (Post 1162458)
It is because there are some people here that I honestly don't know if they're being playful or not, which can be a problem.

You do see the irony here, don't you?

Anduin 07-19-2013 10:52 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dracovyrn (Post 1162185)
As a young man, my form of communication differs from that of older folk.

And here I thought only geezers used the word “folk”!

Anduin 07-19-2013 10:59 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Somebody told me that Douglas Adams was a funny writer. I read The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, but there were no smileys, so I didn’t know where to laugh.

opentune 07-19-2013 11:00 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dracovyrn (Post 1162185)
The difference can be an issue, especially when the other person might not comprehend what you're saying and misconstrue the entire meaning of it.

THIS has nothing to do with young vs old, written vs spoken word, emoticons or not. It has to do with clarity, how clear people can communicate. As emoticons are not words, and there is no body language on the internet, the clarity of what and how people write on messages (including this board) is all the more important. (warning: no emoticon here at end)

Jonny Sumo 07-19-2013 11:04 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anduin (Post 1162482)
Somebody told me that Douglas Adams was a funny writer. I read The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, but there were no smileys, so I didn’t know where to laugh.

Like cue cards for 50s TV shows.....although my copy of 'Hitchhikers...' does have smileys AND simple pictures for prompts...

GRUNTERSDAD 07-19-2013 11:31 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dracovyrn (Post 1162458)
I didn't use them until I was 14, I can survive without them. My writing skills requires no improvement, I had some of the best writings in my class. It is not that I have work to be done, it is that I have worked on it too much. I have two styles of writing, one is a formal, "work and acquaintances" writing. The other, my informal, "friendly natured" writing. I use the former only when necessary, because I can, better than most my age. The latter is for friendly places (or supposed to be) like this, texting, etc. My question wasn't about me, though. It is because there are some people here that I honestly don't know if they're being playful or not, which can be a problem. I have the ability to effectively convey a message without the use of emoticons. I am doing it now. It's not hard, just longer.

I wasn't trying to single you out but only answer the question. As you said you have a hard time deciphering peoples moods whether or not they are being playful or not. So maybe if they wrote better you wouldn't have this issue.
And disagreeing doesn't make this an unfriendly place!!!

Dracovyrn 07-19-2013 11:40 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDDrummer (Post 1162467)
Um, you misspelled "abandoned" and "grammar." ;-)

JK, JK, I'm just playing here. It seems that you have a good sense of humor, and I'm the class clown. Hehe!

Sorry, I only did a quick skim for proof reading... I know 'grammar' is spelled with an a. I swear, I spell better when I'm inebriated...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magenta (Post 1162473)
You do see the irony here, don't you?

Indeedus I do, purplish, red color.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anduin (Post 1162476)
And here I thought only geezers used the word “folk”!

I get my choice of diction from many older books I read. I hate young adult books.

Quote:

Originally Posted by opentune (Post 1162483)
THIS has nothing to do with young vs old, written vs spoken word, emoticons or not. It has to do with clarity, how clear people can communicate. As emoticons are not words, and there is no body language on the internet, the clarity of what and how people write on messages (including this board) is all the more important. (warning: no emoticon here at end)

To better clarify, yes, this is what I primarily meant. The clarity from body language gives much more detail, many times, I think, more than even spoken word does. I am really good at reading body language, facial expressions, etc... I know when my girlfriend is upset by something, she doesn't have to tell me for me to know. The answer is in her beautiful evil witch eyes...

also, the emoticon taunting isn't much appreciated. I say it helps, but I function just fine without it.

Dracovyrn 07-19-2013 11:43 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 1162495)
I wasn't trying to single you out but only answer the question. As you said you have a hard time deciphering peoples moods whether or not they are being playful or not. So maybe if they wrote better you wouldn't have this issue.
And disagreeing doesn't make this an unfriendly place!!!

I was joking, this, is a friendly place. You would seem to have issue understanding, too, eh? Anyways, thank you for clarifying.

Otto 07-25-2013 03:41 AM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
communication finds a way

emoticon....cuniform...rhapsody...rap

where it goes awry is in use for unforgiving status establishment....which leaves cold holes later filled by prejudice

This isnt an age issue...or even one of education

its one of ego...of expressor as well as perceiver

Midnite Zephyr 07-25-2013 04:20 AM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dracovyrn (Post 1162458)
My writing skills requires no improvement,....

irony...

haha!

jk,,,my dark humor

BacteriumFendYoke 07-25-2013 10:45 AM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iSD9lPVY6Q

That is all.

brady 07-25-2013 02:27 PM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1164367)

Classic.

One of my favorite lines from the Simpsons.

Dracovyrn 07-26-2013 01:59 AM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1164367)

Odd, I didn't see this. Quite the old clip from back in the day. What is the point off this, though?

BacteriumFendYoke 07-26-2013 02:03 AM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
Post #35.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...4&postcount=35

I was simply providing commentary.

8Mile 07-26-2013 04:57 AM

Re: Communication Issues between young and elder, alike!
 
http://alice2848th.files.wordpress.c...erceptions.png


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