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-   -   feedback, thoughts and opinions (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107982)

plastickman 06-18-2013 08:49 PM

feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Drum shields are a pain for any number of good reasons:

expensive
heavy/bulky
complicated assembly/parts
fragile
limited effectiveness
high dork factor

What if there were an alternative?

competitively priced
incredibly lightweight
easy to assemble
indestructible (yes you read that right)
offers significantly better sound reduction than existing products
truly portable
easy to customize/modify
not dorky
no moving parts or fasteners
reducible to a package as small as 2X2X2 feet?

Who would be interested in that? I have a working, tested and proven prototype. Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.

And please, o Forum Gods; I'm not spamming or selling anything - just seeking out honest feedback from serious people to determine overall interest. It will help me determine my next steps.

longgun 06-18-2013 09:04 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plastickman (Post 1152464)


Who would be interested in that?

I'd be interested...........let's hear more.

plastickman 06-18-2013 09:10 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by longgun (Post 1152475)
I'd be interested...........let's hear more.


That's all there is to hear for now - I'm just looking to determine if there's a significant market. I'm only weeks from going public with it. I can only say that it really does everything I say it does. You can literally take a baseball bat to this thing - that was one of my endurance tests. Oh - and a tire iron.

It's a full surround, but it weighs in at about 90 pounds.

longgun 06-18-2013 09:54 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Covered also?..........

plastickman 06-18-2013 09:55 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by longgun (Post 1152508)
Covered also?..........

Yes - the cover only weighs about 2 pounds.

Arky 06-18-2013 09:59 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Sounds like a cool product!
Have no fear of the Forum Gods ;-)

plastickman 06-18-2013 10:01 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arky (Post 1152516)
Sounds like a cool product!
Have no fear of the Forum Gods ;-)

Thanks Arky - I'll stop looking for lightning bolts!

bermuda 06-18-2013 11:02 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
I'd be interested, there's been some discussion about shields for me, but keeping them clean and safe in transport, and the general poor effect a shield has on the sound of the drums closest to it (rack toms & kick) have prevented a move forward.

A workable alternative would be a good thing (we hit the road again July 1... hint hint!)

Bermuda

larryace 06-18-2013 11:34 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Mr. plastickman,

If you take Bermudas hint and lend him one, and it's a winner...I can't think of a better way to start some good buzz.

plastickman 06-19-2013 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bermuda (Post 1152541)
I'd be interested, there's been some discussion about shields for me, but keeping them clean and safe in transport, and the general poor effect a shield has on the sound of the drums closest to it (rack toms & kick) have prevented a move forward.

A workable alternative would be a good thing (we hit the road again July 1... hint hint!)

Bermuda

Clean is always an issue, but safe just isn't a factor with my design. Sure you can't push that tour back to August? (hint hint!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1152548)
Mr. plastickman,

If you take Bermudas hint and lend him one, and it's a winner...I can't think of a better way to start some good buzz.

If only! I'm so close to production! Each unit will be handmade and come with an ironclad guarantee against casual damage. If someone can actually damage one of my units through normal use, I'll be astounded :0

Dr_Watso 06-19-2013 02:49 AM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plastickman (Post 1152609)
If only! I'm so close to production! Each unit will be handmade and come with an ironclad guarantee against casual damage. If someone can actually damage one of my units through normal use, I'll be astounded :0

Define "normal use" when musicians are concerned or you might end up with some warranty claims. Jumping into it, for example. Will it burn? Does it melt under hot stage lights?

toddmc 06-19-2013 05:32 AM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
1 Attachment(s)
This sounds like the holy grail of drum shields to me (can you give us an idea of the noise reduction factor)? But until then....

MrInsanePolack 06-19-2013 04:28 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1152618)
Define "normal use" when musicians are concerned or you might end up with some warranty claims. Jumping into it, for example. Will it burn? Does it melt under hot stage lights?

I wouldn't claim it's indestructible either. Claims like that get the assault rifle test in my neck of the woods!

plastickman 06-19-2013 05:03 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1152618)
Define "normal use" when musicians are concerned or you might end up with some warranty claims. Jumping into it, for example. Will it burn? Does it melt under hot stage lights?

To define normal use:

"Normal" for say, Aerosmith during their toxic period. You can jump on it, hit it, smash through it, bash it with a baseball bat - it keeps on ticking. In theory it will burn, but you're looking at 500 degrees before that becomes a concern. When I say indestructible, I mean pretty much that. It can take all the drunken, stoned, angry, angst-ridden musicians - and audience members you can throw at it. "Normal" means I'm not going to pay for damage deliberately inflicted by inquisitive idiots ;)

plastickman 06-19-2013 05:03 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack (Post 1152831)
I wouldn't claim it's indestructible either. Claims like that get the assault rifle test in my neck of the woods!

See my answer to Dr Watso LOL

plastickman 06-19-2013 05:07 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddmc (Post 1152695)
This sounds like the holy grail of drum shields to me (can you give us an idea of the noise reduction factor)? But until then....

Hahah yeah - love the pic!

As to noise reduction, I have specific sound reduction specs - but they're in the hot little fist of my sound engineer who did the tests right now. Let's say roughly a 6-7 decibal reduction in a controlled test over the competition - and that's only the rough prototype. The finished model will offer a considerably higher reduction factor.

Shedboyxx 06-19-2013 06:23 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
For me how it sounds when behind the shield as well as reducing unwanted reflections is a big deal. Plastic does a very poor job in these areas. Unwanted reflections get sent up and bounce around like sonic bullets, getting into the mikes.

At my church a generous guy with wood skills built a set of hinged sound baffles NOT made of any plastic. The wood, cloth and sound absorptive material absorbs sound and reflects much less than any plastic or hard surface I've played behind. Of course you can't see the drummer except from the neck up - which is fine with me.

The next best thing I've experienced is one of the mixed material, total enclosure like this. A bit of an isolating experience musically and puts more weight on the shoulders of those providing and mixing monitors for the drummer. It's also $3000 (I think) not including the Avion monitoring solution that is necessary for this to function.

There's definitely a need for better products in this area. Come up with a winner and the first thing you'll want to do is market to churches in the U.S.

Jim

longgun 06-19-2013 07:26 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plastickman (Post 1152464)

competitively priced

What price range are you thinking about?

Dr_Watso 06-20-2013 10:33 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by longgun (Post 1152914)
What price range are you thinking about?

A competitive one......

Beam Me Up Scotty 06-21-2013 08:37 AM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1153380)
A competitive one......

Obvious answer is obvious. :P

I'm certainly interested in seeing this product, to be sure!

Les Ismore 06-21-2013 09:17 AM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
...reducible to a package as small as 2X2X2 feet?

That'll be interesting.

plastickman 06-23-2013 10:02 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Ismore (Post 1153533)
...reducible to a package as small as 2X2X2 feet?

That'll be interesting.

That's pretty much the extreme limit to its size reduction capabilities. I don't recommend storing it in a package that small, but it is possible to do so. I give those dimensions to demonstrate just how durable and versatile my design actually is.

MrInsanePolack 06-23-2013 10:11 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
So when do we get to see pictures? As a past designer/draftsman, I'm skeptical about this. To me it sounds like you just put some drums in a clear bounce house.

plastickman 06-25-2013 06:29 AM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack (Post 1154346)
So when do we get to see pictures? As a past designer/draftsman, I'm skeptical about this. To me it sounds like you just put some drums in a clear bounce house.

Pictures will come when it's time. Right now I'm focused on logistical issues, legal stuff, etc. I'm just gathering feedback to help me take the final steps into production. And as a designer/draftsman myself, I'd be skeptical too haha. Once you see it,though, it will make complete sense to you, I promise.

MrInsanePolack 06-25-2013 06:43 AM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by plastickman (Post 1154817)
Pictures will come when it's time. Right now I'm focused on logistical issues, legal stuff, etc. I'm just gathering feedback to help me take the final steps into production. And as a designer/draftsman myself, I'd be skeptical too haha. Once you see it,though, it will make complete sense to you, I promise.

I'll be waiting for sure. I must know how it has no moving parts/fasteners, but yet is easily assembled, and reducible to 2'x2'x2'.

plastickman 06-26-2013 10:33 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shedboyxx (Post 1152885)
For me how it sounds when behind the shield as well as reducing unwanted reflections is a big deal. Plastic does a very poor job in these areas. Unwanted reflections get sent up and bounce around like sonic bullets, getting into the mikes.

At my church a generous guy with wood skills built a set of hinged sound baffles NOT made of any plastic. The wood, cloth and sound absorptive material absorbs sound and reflects much less than any plastic or hard surface I've played behind. Of course you can't see the drummer except from the neck up - which is fine with me.

The next best thing I've experienced is one of the mixed material, total enclosure like this. A bit of an isolating experience musically and puts more weight on the shoulders of those providing and mixing monitors for the drummer. It's also $3000 (I think) not including the Avion monitoring solution that is necessary for this to function.

There's definitely a need for better products in this area. Come up with a winner and the first thing you'll want to do is market to churches in the U.S.

Jim

Yes there are definite drawbacks whichever way you go. But with a little tweaking, depending on how far you want to go, my design will compete even with the megamini - at a fraction of the weight and bulk. I'm doing a second set of tests on the finished product within the next month, then I'll post the final decibel reduction figures on this forum. The test will be run with the basic unit only - no additional soundproofing. I want to establish a baseline for future tests by myself and users of my product. Of course I'd love to invent something that kills low frequency waves and is still lightweight and transparent, but that really is the holy grail of drum shields. Someday...

plastickman 08-17-2013 08:47 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hey folks. Just giving an update,.

The CRASH CAN (yes, that's its official Brand Name) will be available for purchase very soon. I will keep you posted.









The name "Crash Can" and its accompanying graphics are fully protected by copyright and trademark laws, and are registered with the US offices of Copyrights and Trademarks.

plastickman 09-08-2013 09:27 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
The Crash Can is undergoing final sound tests this Monday; I'll post them here as soon as we get the data. We will be testing without any additional soundproofing or top/cover, then we will test with a simple cover, and then with some extra soundproofing, just to see what's possible yet portable. We've eliminated all hardware from the design; no moving parts, screws, fasteners, etc. Very simple, lightweight, durable, portable and effective. The entire unit (full 8 foot surround) weighs in around 90 pounds. We'll keep you posted!

porter 09-08-2013 10:17 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Color me intrigued c: (what color is intrigue...? probably amaranth)

Midnite Zephyr 09-08-2013 10:48 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
why would i want a crash can? why? i thought this thread was about a shield.

plastickman 09-10-2013 06:13 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr (Post 1178457)
why would i want a crash can? why? i thought this thread was about a shield.

Brand Name. It's a drum shield, I promise.

Torkerz 09-10-2013 06:22 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Deffo interested in this! Let's see some vids, prices and specs! :-D

plastickman 09-10-2013 06:47 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
OK folks; the basic noise reduction numbers are:

Crash Can 6 panel shield:

21 dB reduction in the HF. 6 dB total broadband reduction.


Compared to:


Standard acrylic 1/4" 6 panel shield - with additional 1' inclined deflectors:

16 dB in HF, 3.5 dB total broadband

Both units were set in an identical semicircular configuration.

This test was done under controlled conditions by a certified sound engineer, with the basic plastic units only. We didn't do any tests with additional soundproofing, but this would undoubtedly raise the final noise reduction significantly. We'll be doing another test this week with the addition of 4" pyramid foam around the lower interior - just for further clarification. The addition of a cover would certainly kill a lot of high frequency noise, but that's the skinny on the basic unit.

As it stands, it's a definite winner - even without additional bells and whistles. It's price-comparable, easily modified*, super-lightweight, incredibly tough*, has no mechanical parts, and it just plain works better.

I'll be posting actual spreadsheets with hard data soon - for all you serious techies.

*easily modified, incredibly tough* - you can cut it with a jigsaw, drill it, hammer it, nail it, screw through it, kick and beat it in frustration, cuss it, throw someone through it, toss it out a three-story window, use it for a hammock...pretty much anything but setting it on fire is fine.

plastickman 09-10-2013 06:47 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Torkerz (Post 1179041)
Deffo interested in this! Let's see some vids, prices and specs! :-D

Coming soon to a forum near you! ;)

plastickman 09-10-2013 06:50 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by porter (Post 1178448)
Color me intrigued c: (what color is intrigue...? probably amaranth)

Probably the same color as money...lol

plastickman 09-10-2013 07:11 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Just posted dB numbers - read on!

longgun 09-10-2013 10:00 PM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Torkerz (Post 1179041)
Deffo interested in this! Let's see some vids, prices and specs! :-D

+1.....I definitely want to see more

plastickman 09-11-2013 03:43 AM

Re: feedback, thoughts and opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by longgun (Post 1179118)
+1.....I definitely want to see more

Very soon now!

One-man setup time, ten minutes flat. Easy peasy. I just set it up in my studio, by myself. It wasn't even work. Trying to locate a reliable source for one of the components now. Fun fun fun. More info soon!


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