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-   -   Was this a false start by Bonzo? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105342)

inneedofgrace 03-20-2013 04:32 PM

Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
I was watching my Led Zeppelin concert DVD last night (one of my all-time favs), and I noticed that at the beginning of Whole Lotta Love, it seems that Bonham came in prematurely (about 7-8 seconds in). He then stops playing and comes back in when he did on the record version. Right afterward, Page looks over and appears to be laughing. Do you think Bonham meant to play that part on the snare? Or did he get overly aggressive and start too soon? Or just fooling around?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB_DOA2AL7Q

JBoom 03-20-2013 04:37 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Page gives him a look that says "inside joke." So I guess it's either a mistake he made a lot with that song, or Bonzo was messing with him.

Craig J 03-20-2013 04:43 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
looks like an inside joke or something. when he comes in the second time its a completely different entrance.

slowrocker 03-20-2013 04:53 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Looks like just messing around. Didn't hurt anything either.

Anthony Amodeo 03-20-2013 04:54 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
doesn't seem like a mistake to me at all

looks like a bit of fun with a song that they had been playing for a very long time

a touch of the spice of life.... spontaneity

inneedofgrace 03-20-2013 04:55 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slowrocker (Post 1120475)
Didn't hurt anything either.

Not at all - I actually like that slightly modified live version of the song better than the original.

larryace 03-20-2013 04:56 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Sounded like he meant to do that to me.

MikeM 03-20-2013 05:05 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
I think he was probably just taking some liberties for fun at the time, but it did sound like he botched the end of it (missed the downbeat), so yeah, a little awkward ... but it's just rock 'n roll and it was a fun little diversion.

StickIt 03-20-2013 05:05 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
I guess I have the same opinion as everyone before me...I mainly just wanted an excuse to hear the man play!

Friggin awesome!

KarlCrafton 03-20-2013 06:27 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
TBH, I think it was a brainfart on Bonhams part. It happens. Didn't wreck anything, and it's live R&R.

The tune out On The Tiles (among others) has a few miss cues (music & vocals), but they left them.
I asked Jason Bonham about that song, and that's what he said. Apparently, questions about that song comes up quite a bit. Recordings were done a LOT faster back then, and if something had a cool vibe, or it wasn't a disaster, it's "sounds good, on to the next".

Personally, I'd rather have that, than a band or artist taking 4 years to make a record, running it through pro-tools taking out all the character and personality.

inneedofgrace 03-20-2013 08:18 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlCrafton (Post 1120543)
Personally, I'd rather have that, than a band or artist taking 4 years to make a record

That's how Tom Scholtz killed Boston.

skod 03-20-2013 08:33 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
This is a toughie. By definition, if it is your song- you are playing it correctly. That it might not be precisely the way you played it on the record, or last night, or will play it tomorrow, is not germane: it is your property to do with as you will. Now, taking liberties with a well-known song of your own may well get you some guff from some bandmates, fans, or critics. But at the end of the day, it is still your song.

The joy of doing original music is that you get to do original music. The downside, of course, is that people expect it to come out the same way each time. It is a painful conundrum... I believe that Bill Bruford pointed to that in his autobiography as one of the things he hated most about success in any context, and I'm sure that it was one of the things that led to him jumping bands so often, and finally hanging up the sticks for live work.

Can't imagine what Mick Jagger must feel when some wag yells "Satisfaction". I got roundly sick of some of our original songs with my most successful band, and it only lasted a few years. Played them however I felt like playing them in the moment, just the same...

Big Foot 03-21-2013 12:20 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Mistake or not! This is why I love live music - there's no hiding.

8Mile 03-21-2013 12:39 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlCrafton (Post 1120543)
Recordings were done a LOT faster back then, and if something had a cool vibe, or it wasn't a disaster, it's "sounds good, on to the next".

Personally, I'd rather have that, than a band or artist taking 4 years to make a record, running it through pro-tools taking out all the character and personality.

Yes, yes and yes!





20202020

GRUNTERSDAD 03-21-2013 12:40 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
That look tells me it was a mistake....but the Show Goes On.

tamadrm 03-21-2013 01:03 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
I've seen Zep a number of times,as well as heard live cuts of their stuff throughout the years.Bonzo rarely if ever played the same exact thing twice.They constantly changed things up.

Not to say he didn't make a mistake,lose his place,change time or flub a fill here and there.No click tracks,and thats just fine with me.

These were raw, live and mostly,HUMAN performances,and by deffinition were edgy and flawed.But that's why I so LOVE, live music.Take the human quality out of it,and for me......you can keep it.

Steve B

KarlCrafton 03-21-2013 01:20 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tamadrm (Post 1120746)
These were raw, live and mostly,HUMAN performances,and by definition were edgy and flawed.But that's why I so LOVE, live music.Take the human quality out of it,and for me......you can keep it.
Steve B

YES!!!!!!


20characters :-)

Anon La Ply 03-21-2013 06:22 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Haha - Bonzo must have been a funny guy - that was outrageous. I've done tons of silly things to amuse or tease band mates but he really got in their face with that one. Naughty Bonzo!

opentune 03-21-2013 06:31 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
this is a very interesting DVD for study.
The Knebworth parts.
At the beginning of the Knebworth show they open with Rock n' Roll. Bonzo looks so serious, almost distressed, maybe even angry, or ill, almost like he didn't want to go on?
check out at about 0:19 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM5NkLnVzVY

he eventually comes around, check out drumming in Achilles Last Stand...spot on!

Pocket-full-of-gold 03-21-2013 06:45 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by opentune (Post 1120862)
At the beginning of the Knebworth show they open with Rock n' Roll. Bonzo looks so serious, almost distressed, maybe even angry, or ill, almost like he didn't want to go on?

I'd use the word nervous. They were as nervous as they'd ever been....all of 'em.

Remember it was their first major gig for two years. Their "comeback" if you will. They weren't sure how they'd be received or if the fans would still think them relevant. They hadn't been sighted on any real scale since the US tour of '77 that was abandonded when Plant's son died.

Knebworth ended up being a triumph for them.....but at the beginning of that first number, they really didn't know how it would go down. It's little wonder you can see it in his face.

Every chance it was a mistake. First time on stage together in a couple of years.....no doubt they might have been a little rusty, regardless of prior rehearsals. But then again, knowing how they changed stuff up, there's also every chance he was just mixing it up a bit too.

Anon La Ply 03-21-2013 07:30 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Jules, he might have been trying to settle the nerves with a bit of silliness. It wasn't even within cooee of the usual arrangement.

The only way I can imagine a player of his calibre being so far off is if he'd engaged in copious amounts of nerve reduction activities before the concert... which I guess is possible.

Pocket-full-of-gold 03-21-2013 08:55 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply (Post 1120876)
It wasn't even within cooee of the usual arrangement.

That version of the song is a great example of just how much they changed over the years. I guess their willingness to play their own material differently each night, over a ten year period, lead to a natural evolution of that track. The two versions of Whole Lotta Love from that Zepp DVD, from Albert Hall in '70 and then Knebworth nearly 10 years later, couldn't be more different. Quite common really. Check more recent versions of things like Brown Sugar or It's Only Rock 'n Roll by the Stones etc.....a far cry from what they started out as.

As for the "nerve reduction".....well, he was doing that up until and including the day he died. Not only possible, but I'd go one further and say more or less expected.

Liebe zeit 03-21-2013 10:52 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Probably hammered on vodka. While Page was smacked up. And had hardly played together for ages by Knebworth.

I love early Zep but by this time they were in a bad place with all the substance abuse, violence etc that had gone on.

inneedofgrace 03-21-2013 02:26 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold (Post 1120868)
I'd use the word nervous. They were as nervous as they'd ever been....all of 'em.

Remember it was their first major gig for two years. Their "comeback" if you will. They weren't sure how they'd be received or if the fans would still think them relevant. They hadn't been sighted on any real scale since the US tour of '77 that was abandonded when Plant's son died.

Knebworth ended up being a triumph for them.....but at the beginning of that first number, they really didn't know how it would go down. It's little wonder you can see it in his face.

Every chance it was a mistake. First time on stage together in a couple of years.....no doubt they might have been a little rusty, regardless of prior rehearsals. But then again, knowing how they changed stuff up, there's also every chance he was just mixing it up a bit too.

Don't forget the massive size of the audience at that concert! That's enough to make even the most seasoned professional a bit nervous.

opentune 03-21-2013 11:16 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold (Post 1120868)
I'd use the word nervous. They were as nervous as they'd ever been....all of 'em.

Ya I'd have to agree. "....been a long time"...indeed.
Contrast that with their cool swagger on the opening of the Alberta Hall show.

marko138 03-21-2013 11:47 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
What I love about live DVDs or CDs are seeing how differently the band plays any given song versus how they recorded it. I love live stuff. I like to hear that kind of stuff.

Brian 03-23-2013 08:08 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inneedofgrace (Post 1120599)
That's how Tom Scholtz killed Boston.

Or created it...just food for thought.

mmulcahy1 03-23-2013 11:03 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
This was not a mistake on Bonzo's part. However, I do believe that Page had no idea it was going to happen.

Bonham came in right where he wanted to. He was revving the bands engine before he let out the clutch on the Christmas tree double green lights.

inneedofgrace 03-23-2013 11:36 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marko138 (Post 1121112)
What I love about live DVDs or CDs are seeing how differently the band plays any given song versus how they recorded it. I love live stuff. I like to hear that kind of stuff.

When we invite our friends over for dinner, we almost always retire to the den to watch a live concert DVD. My friend (a great singer) and I love to see the bands perform things different than the original song. The wives want to hear it exactly as it was recorded. This must be a Venus vs. Mars deal..... :)

Fur drummer 03-24-2013 04:45 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
Bonzo had a sense of humor and like playing jokes on people. Probably just him having fun.

inneedofgrace 03-24-2013 06:38 AM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
I'm curious why he stopped and didn't just keep playing.

Bruce M. Thomson 03-26-2013 06:55 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
I could be wrong but doesn't he repeat the lick at 1:20?
I was thinking that maybe it was an inside thing but also to telagraph the meter as it is different than what I have heard before. Great sound on the video.

Thanks

Dr_Watso 03-26-2013 07:19 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
A Bonzo's starts are never false, nor are they early. He starts precisely when he means to.

larryace 03-26-2013 07:22 PM

Re: Was this a false start by Bonzo?
 
A Bonzo...lol

It's fun to conjecture about this stuff.

It could have been....He hadn't played live for so long with these guys, maybe he needed to "rev the engine" before driving away lol. Maybe he wanted a little attention too.

Testosterone combined with adrenalin of that magnitude must be hard to contain. Maybe he was saying, "I'm gonna kick you in the ass tonight" Low T? I don't think so lol.

After playing/hearing that song so many times, he preferred to hear the added part, the natural evolution of a song, and more importantly, how the musicians feel for the song matures over time.

If it really was a mis-step, he covered it so good, that I can't tell.


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