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-   -   i am a serial snare head killer (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105069)

keaganobrien 03-11-2013 01:57 PM

i am a serial snare head killer
 
some facts about me

-hard hitter but not a basher
-playing ambassdors for 10 years- occasional dent if i was tense swapped heads maybe every year because of dents
- since 3 months ago cant finsh 30 minute set without denting snare (not toms) head to the point it has no rebound
-vic firth sd2 round tip only stick i play i get blisters that put me out for a week with other sticks that arent 6.50 in dia
-2 loud rock bands (not metal, pocket 4x4 dance grooves & rockabilly/swing)
-triple flange hoops i have 10+ 13&14 inch snares from 3.5 - 10... all them i dent now
-snare is set up pointing down towards bd slightly.. 50's style; i play lots of rim shots

of course ive tried 2 plys other 1 plys from compaines that arent remo

only head ive found that lasts a whole set, mic'd on stage or in a rehersal studio is emepror x with the dot (sounds like choked farts)

ive heard round tips dent easly but the dents im getting are a mix of little dots and then huge craters that look like the taper of the stick

my inquries
-its my techiqunce? what can i practice to make myself not a a serial drum head killer
-its the sticks? little round tips are really this destructive? wtf?
-should i try acorn or something? i need something with a wide diameter

ENRICO 03-11-2013 02:33 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
have you tried the evans g14? is one play head but thick as a two ply (14mil), In theory a 14mil one ply head is much stronger than a 14mil two ply and it still sound like a one ply head

Naigewron 03-11-2013 02:37 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
Denting often indicates your drum stick is hitting at an angle. Try to keep your stick as parallell to the drum head as possible when it hits.
edit: Didn't notice you said you usually played rimshots, so that would mean it's probably not an angle problem

From experience, round tips are notorious head killers. Try some other tips and see if that helps.

sonnygrabber 03-11-2013 02:53 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
I'm sorry, but I have never...ever dented a snare drum head. In 25+years of playing everything from metal to prog to just about everything else...never. Tom heads, yes..20 years ago or so. What are the angles of your drums? Rim shots are far louder than anything else and they usually generally demand a fairly flat aspect. I would seriously look at the setup you have and revise any angles of drums over say 25% grade...tops

Soupy 03-11-2013 02:55 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
I agree with Naigewron; I tend to get dents more when I'm hitting a drum with the stick not as flat as possible. Happens the most on snares when I have the drum too low, on toms when I don't have the angle quite right.

Also, how do you tune you snare? If you're tuning the batter really low, that can contribute as well.

See if you can find a thick maple stick like the SD2 with a different tip. I think SD1 has a larger ball which might help; it's longer though.

G14 is a good suggestion as well. Do you really dent an Empreor as much as an Ambassador?

brady 03-11-2013 03:01 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keaganobrien (Post 1117264)
some facts about me

-hard hitter but not a basher
-playing ambassdors for 10 years- occasional dent if i was tense swapped heads maybe every year because of dents
- since 3 months ago cant finsh 30 minute set without denting snare (not toms) head to the point it has no rebound
-vic firth sd2 round tip only stick i play i get blisters that put me out for a week with other sticks that arent 6.50 in dia
-2 loud rock bands (not metal, pocket 4x4 dance grooves & rockabilly/swing)
-triple flange hoops i have 10+ 13&14 inch snares from 3.5 - 10... all them i dent now
-snare is set up pointing down towards bd slightly.. 50's style; i play lots of rim shots

of course ive tried 2 plys other 1 plys from compaines that arent remo

only head ive found that lasts a whole set, mic'd on stage or in a rehersal studio is emepror x with the dot (sounds like choked farts)

ive heard round tips dent easly but the dents im getting are a mix of little dots and then huge craters that look like the taper of the stick

my inquries
-its my techiqunce? what can i practice to make myself not a a serial drum head killer
-its the sticks? little round tips are really this destructive? wtf?
-should i try acorn or something? i need something with a wide diameter

No offense intended, but if one has to ask if it's a technique problem, then it probably is. I only mention that because you said you were getting blisters. That's usually an indication that you're doing something wrong. Seek out a qualified teacher in your area, even if it's for a lesson or two to get you straightened out.

It's also possible that it could be a stick issue. Round tips do dent heads quite easily.

As for heads, Aqauarian has a relatively new head called Triple Threat. It's three layers of 7mil.
http://www.aquariandrumheads.com/products/triple-threat

That should stand up to quite a beating. Maybe you could try those if they are available near you.

jmfitch 03-11-2013 03:04 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
You may want to try a stick with a larger tip - Vater Fatback 3A comes to mind...

keaganobrien 03-11-2013 04:27 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
thanks ill try those 3a's
these were all taken in the last month or so ive always had my snare like this
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5227/imagelvpg.jpg
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3103/imageeey.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/572/imageshbt.jpghttp://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1138/imagefga.jpg

i always grip to tightly if i have anything smaller than a .630 in my hand it just doesnr feel comfortable! mix that with sweat and i get blisters
on the plus side i cant remember the last time i dropped a stick.. i dont break sticks either and these are maple

what kind of exercises would an instructor use tryed to get him to remdy my killing spree

Soupy 03-11-2013 05:03 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
In your photos, the snare looks crazy low, at least compared to how I have mine. Looks to be about the same height as your throne? I probably have my snare at least 6 inches higher.

brady 03-11-2013 05:09 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keaganobrien (Post 1117296)
thanks ill try those 3a's
these were all taken in the last month or so ive always had my snare like this
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5227/imagelvpg.jpg
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3103/imageeey.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/572/imageshbt.jpghttp://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1138/imagefga.jpg

i always grip to tightly if i have anything smaller than a .630 in my hand it just doesnr feel comfortable! mix that with sweat and i get blisters
on the plus side i cant remember the last time i dropped a stick.. i dont break sticks either and these are maple

what kind of exercises would an instructor use tryed to get him to remdy my killing spree

It depends on the instructor.

Maybe something like the freestroke? Probably any exercise that focuses on relaxing the hands and letting the stick do the work. That shouldn't be too hard with a large stick.

Check out videos of Joe Morello, Tommy Igoe, or Jojo Mayer to get an idea of what it looks like to play relaxed and effortlessly.

There are also quite a few forum members that do lessons via Skype. Bill Bachman comes to mind.

larryace 03-11-2013 05:12 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
We need a video that clearly shows your technique. We really can't tell much from a picture. Your snare does seem kind of low, that would contribute. The one pic with you in the blue T shirt, your stick is fairly parallel to the floor. That would be a good angle to strike the drum on, but clearly you have like 8" to go before the strike. Too much IMO. Try raising your snare drum so your stick hits it as parallel to the drumhead as possible.

BradGunnerSGT 03-11-2013 05:40 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1117318)
We need a video that clearly shows your technique. We really can't tell much from a picture. Your snare does seem kind of low, that would contribute. The one pic with you in the blue T shirt, your stick is fairly parallel to the floor. That would be a good angle to strike the drum on, but clearly you have like 8" to go before the strike. Too much IMO. Try raising your snare drum so your stick hits it as parallel to the drumhead as possible.

Yeah, I like to have my snare about "belt buckle" height, tilted slightly toward me (one notch on a geared snare stand, for example). That way, when my stick is parallel to the floor it is naturally going to hit the drum at jut the right angle, and rimshots are east to do by tilting my wrist up just a tiny bit. Efficiency of motion is the key to long term playing without injury. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwq4ceIBbeo

You might want to try the SD9 or SD10 if you feel the most comfortable with the bigger maple sticks. They have an oval (SD9) or acorn (SD10) bead instead of the round bead, they might work for you.

larryace 03-11-2013 05:48 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT (Post 1117327)
Yeah, I like to have my snare about "belt buckle" height,

Belt buckle height in Texas is widely variable lol. You Texans have some big buckles lol. Meant in the best of terms, of course. :)

Shedboyxx 03-11-2013 07:50 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
This

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1117318)
.... Your snare does seem kind of low, that would contribute. The one pic with you in the blue T shirt, your stick is fairly parallel to the floor. That would be a good angle to strike the drum on, but clearly you have like 8" to go before the strike. Too much IMO. Try raising your snare drum so your stick hits it as parallel to the drumhead as possible.

I was playing a benefit a few years ago and had to use another drummer's set without adjusting anything. Ugh. The snare was about where your snare is in the pictures and I came away with my hand hurting after playing about 10 minutes. That was at a medium volume.


My .02...
I'm guessing that you aren't using rim shots for back beats on a consistent basis. If you bring the snare up and try to practice rim shots, that will help level out the stick angle.

I use back beat rim shots quite a bit and rarely dent a head unless it's tuned very low. A rim shot will give you cut without having to tune the snare drum like a drum corp snare or slam hard. Not saying you shouldn't tune where you like it but if you try the rim shot approach you'll probably get more presence without slamming as hard. I do chew up my sticks in the middle to shoulder area but rarely break a tip. Like ever other year maybe and that's usually while doing some serious bashing where my technique slides a skosh. :P

Start out with Larry's suggestion and see what happens.

Jim

sonnygrabber 03-12-2013 03:29 AM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
There's this killer drummer here in Oz...(I forget his name)...and he has his snare that low but he angles it away from him. Kinda like the traditional grip jazz guys would do. He plays matched. This may be a solution if you don't wanna raise your snare up.

I was taught to angle the snare towards me to a shallow degree where the far side is level with my navel. That may be a bit of a trial if you have had it that low for a while.

GRUNTERSDAD 03-12-2013 03:46 AM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
If you are getting blisters. Technique problem. If you are denting heads frequently. Technique problem or bad head selection. My first thought when I saw your photos was that the snare is way too low. Especially if you are a hard hitter, and I will guess bordering on basher. Try a heavier head, G14 Evans is a good place to start, and raise the snare. Also the stick sounds like a parade stick. All of this combined is a problem. Find a teacher and iron this stuff out before you spend another ton of cash on heads.

Winston_Wolf 03-12-2013 05:19 AM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
I agree with the majority here that I think your snare is too low, which is causing the stick to hit the head at a pretty extreme angle, thus causing the dents.

Belt-buckle high is a good ballpark height to try to work up to, but I think you might need to move it up in smaller increments because having the snare suddenly 7" higher is probably going to take some getting used to.

I'd also suggest looking into general technique and stick selection too. An SD2 is a fairly short stick, which seems to be causing you to hold them really far back, in the one shot you posted it doesn't even seem that the stick makes it passed your pinky finger. Being that far away from the balance point of the stick usually leads to a tighter grip, which usually leads to blisters.

An SD1 will keep the same diameter but give you an extra 3/4 of an inch of reach.

larryace 03-12-2013 06:19 AM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
I agree with Shedboyxx about using the rim for backbeats for 2 reasons. One you don't have to hit as hard to get a cutting tone and two the angle of your stick is closer to parallel with the head, desirable. Raise that puppy up and use your rim.

keaganobrien 03-12-2013 12:04 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
thanks so much guys
i played some oak 747s i had lying around at band practice today--- no blisters and NO DENTS! i dont like the way they handle vibration and they feel almost "cheep" but ill try some acorn tipped maples..

i hate the sd9 drivers- i think ive gotten blisters from them after a couple sessions years ago

sd1 generals are just too huge at the tip and feel gross in my hands

never thought once my snare was too low but it makes sense now im going to play around with it

i play rim shots most of the time, not for the cut but i like a very resonant ringy sound which is why i wanna play ambassdors again

thanks again, good community here

johnnylaw 04-12-2013 09:48 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
Raise the snare at least two inches.

Can you feel a fulcrum in your hand where the stick rides like a see-saw? Or, does the up-down swing of the stick come more from a hinge dynamic at your elbow joint?

You may benefit from loosening your grip and let the stick balance/swing right in your hand.

Sjogras 04-13-2013 12:49 AM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
I have my snare pretty level with my waist, and the distance from my knee to the rim is a good 6-7 inches. Perhaps nylon tips would be a good idea as well, as you get a sharp side when wood tips split, while nylon tips never split.

drum4fun27302 04-16-2013 12:35 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
I used to break aquarian studio X on the snare every couple of weeks or so. They used to split in half at any given time.. I now use an aquarian Hi Energy, and no more problems!!!! Very , very tough.. I heard that they are so tough that you have to watch out on the tension and not break a wooden snare.

mandrew 04-20-2013 11:40 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
I use SD1 and Sd2 boleros a lot. Never broke a head, got blisters, or dented a head. If you have to hit so hard that your head dents, you are probably using the wrong stick. I would raise the drum, and get a heavier stick and let the stick weight do the work. Sd1s are maple, and lighter than hickory. Try a 2B or something in between. If technique is right, you should not get blisters. You are holding way too tight, and are not using fulcrum effectively.

masonni 04-26-2013 10:57 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
You snare is really low dude! I think if you raised it up a little you wouldn't be hitting at such a "destructive" angle...

Also, you might want to try this head... Aquarian Triple Threat. It's a 3 play coated head.
You would think it would be choked and really hard when hitting it, but surprisingly it tunes up real nice and never chokes. It's a much warmer sound than a single ply, but still real nice. I've started using them on ALL my snares.

HITMAN 04-26-2013 11:03 PM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
3 words

aquarian triple threat

FlamFlamMan 04-28-2013 05:34 AM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
If you make the switch you better hope that the Triple Threat holds up. It'll hurt even more at $25 a pop!

masonni 04-29-2013 03:21 AM

Re: i am a serial snare head killer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamFlamMan (Post 1134182)
If you make the switch you better hope that the Triple Threat holds up. It'll hurt even more at $25 a pop!

Been on tour for 5 weeks now using the Triple Threat and haven't had to change the snare head yet ;)


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