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-   -   Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001 (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105038)

David Floegel 03-10-2013 04:22 PM

Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Hi guys,

about 1 1/2 years I started to restore my old (and first) drumkit: Sonor Force 2001!

I removed all the plastic sheet and bought some veneer which I glued to the shells..
Yesterday I finally started laquering the drums and it already looks pretty good!

Check it out:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ifloege...7627006305588/

Btw: The shells are red from the inside as well.. Special I guess ;)

Tell me what you think! :)

David

BacteriumFendYoke 03-10-2013 08:15 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Love it David. Those are really nice shells to begin with and it looks like you've done a very decent job there.

Arky 03-10-2013 08:27 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
I agree - very nice work! Congrats - and that whole project took you a while.
My frist impression from the pics you posted on facebook was that I didn't like that red hue too much but I guess that's the difference between looking at pictures and seeing those shells in the flesh. Plus, the hardware and finally all drums set up will surely provide far more visual impact as they do now. The shells look way more attractive than in the original state! And then, it's 'only' your 2nd/live kit ;-)

Another thought of mine was first staining the shells with a dark (maybe even black) hue, then sanding the stain off to a certain degree (to bring out the grain considerably more - as is typically done with e.g. guitar veneers, and that's where I know this approach from) and then put on the final stain. Having some Burst effect would have been a nice choice, too. Those shells would have looked very nice by adding just a little bit of a yellow/brownish hue, too.

keep it simple 03-10-2013 08:31 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Very nice work David :) Red was a brave choice, especially considering the already pleasing natural colour of the veneer. I'm interested to see how it all looks set up & ready to play. Quite a bit of work there!

David Floegel 03-11-2013 10:09 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Thanks for your answers!


I'm actually really happy with the red - it looked somewhat brighter before the clearlaquer of course but this is the color I actually intended to have!

I guess they definitely look way better with the hardware on it.. I'll post some pictures when they're done and maybe also some live pictures (I will need this kit on March, 30)..


What I need to do before I can put more laquer on it is removing some blisters from the veneer.. It was pretty difficult to glue the veneer to the shell.. I put a lot of pressure on it but on a very few parts of the shell there seemed to be either no glue or not enough pressure.
So yeah, quite some work to do on:
bassdrum, 16" floor, 14" floor... Only if I can get these blisters removed I should consider putting a high gloss on it, as you will see every little inaccuracy..

We'll see!

I'll keep you updated!

larryace 03-11-2013 06:45 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
This, buying a veneer to "wrap" your shells in...I never really heard of this before, it seems like a recent idea, either that or I missed it up until now. I think it's a brilliant idea, smashing, fabulous, lovely. I like your method of gluing the veneer, but from the blisters you mentioned, it sounds like the fabric "belts" should be as wide as the shell itself, if that's possible. Smashing job David, is that birdseye?

I played a set of budget Sonors once and I gotta say, I thought they sounded terrific. I may do this to a set of Mapex drums I have where the lacquer finish is way yellowed from UV exposure. Thanks for the inspiration David!

David Floegel 03-12-2013 07:56 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1117347)
This, buying a veneer to "wrap" your shells in...I never really heard of this before, it seems like a recent idea, either that or I missed it up until now. I think it's a brilliant idea, smashing, fabulous, lovely. I like your method of gluing the veneer, but from the blisters you mentioned, it sounds like the fabric "belts" should be as wide as the shell itself, if that's possible. Smashing job David, is that birdseye?

I played a set of budget Sonors once and I gotta say, I thought they sounded terrific. I may do this to a set of Mapex drums I have where the lacquer finish is way yellowed from UV exposure. Thanks for the inspiration David!

Glad you like it Larry!
I didn't hear of anybody wrapping up shells with veneer that way either.. I don't know, maybe I invented something new ;)
Regarding the blisters: Yes, either wider belts would have been a good idea or more belts.

Yes, the veneer is birdseye! :) Loving that!

Going to post more pics soon!!!

BacteriumFendYoke 03-12-2013 01:36 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Applying veneers is a dark art. I think I've seen it once or twice before. In fact, you might do well to PM 'Uniongoon' over here - he veneered a whole set of Premier Signia drums a while back. Wider bands would be a good idea if you're having problems but you've got to make sure that the fabric has no give at all - otherwise it won't work at all.

I'm a big fan of the Force series drums. I love them.

David Floegel 03-17-2013 06:17 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Today I finished the laquering process!!! :) Such an exciting day..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ifloege...in/photostream

The shells are satin and I really like that!
Nevertheless I'm thinking about polishing the surface?? What do you think (especially Andy?)


Also, I ordered some Hardware such as Bassdrum feet, TAR systems, washers, bassdrum claws and stuff like that.
So hopefully next weekend I can make some videos and soundsamples :)


Bestest

David

Pass.of.E.r.a. 03-18-2013 12:09 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Those are looking great! I'm looking forward to seeing them all set up.

What sizes do you have there?

-Jonathan

Grace :) 03-18-2013 03:01 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
These are gonna look great!
Can't wait to see the finished thing :)

David Floegel 03-18-2013 08:12 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
these are:
20x16 bassdrum
8x8 racktom
10x9 racktom
12x10 racktom
14x14 floortom
16x16 floortom

some facts why I think those drums should sound way better than before:
-1- obviously there's no wrap anymore, but real wood veneer
-2- the shells are laquered from the inside as well
-3- brand new bearing edges from SONOR!! same as on my sq2
-4- isolators between lug and shell. actually I wanted the sq2 rubbers but they are 5€/piece and that was to expensive for the 80 I would use..
-5- TAR systems on the racktoms
-6- new bassdrum feet with isolators
-7- wood hoops on bassdrum instead of metal hoops!!!
-8- the shells are now a little bit smaller than before so the head has more "space" to move..

I will do a 1:1 comparison with my sq2, even the shell sizes and constructions are different, of course!

excited to have the set finished!!!

keep it simple 03-18-2013 07:31 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalma (Post 1119426)
Today I finished the laquering process!!! :) Such an exciting day..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ifloege...in/photostream

The shells are satin and I really like that!
Nevertheless I'm thinking about polishing the surface?? What do you think (especially Andy?)


Also, I ordered some Hardware such as Bassdrum feet, TAR systems, washers, bassdrum claws and stuff like that.
So hopefully next weekend I can make some videos and soundsamples :)


Bestest

David

I'm quite liking the satin finish to be honest. With such a vibrant colour, you'd almost expect a gloss finish, so a satin is a nice surprise.

BTW, Andy isn't a fan of rubber gaskets between lugs & the shell, but don't let that put you off! ;) ;) ;)

David Floegel 03-18-2013 11:01 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 1119807)
I'm quite liking the satin finish to be honest. With such a vibrant colour, you'd almost expect a gloss finish, so a satin is a nice surprise.

BTW, Andy isn't a fan of rubber gaskets between lugs & the shell, but don't let that put you off! ;) ;) ;)

Ok, I might try polishing it on a little corner and try what it looks like..

I actually like these gaskets but 5*per piece??? that makes 400 for 40 lugs (2 holes per lug) ...

David Floegel 03-24-2013 10:23 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
No video today, but I'm nearly done!!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ifloege...in/photostream

What is still missing?
- Bassdrum legs
- Air vents


My iphone cam did not really pick up the nice veneer structure so I will take photos with my photo camera when everything is finished!

Arky 03-24-2013 10:32 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
You did a great job!
The reworked shellkit looks sexy, even more so with the hardware mounted.
Honestly that nice veneer provides great cosmetics with any stain/colour or even in 'natural', just with a coating finish. Red was a nice choice.
The result looks so much nicer than before, it was really worth it.

sonnygrabber 03-24-2013 10:39 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Fantastic! I've been following this thread just wondering how it would work out with the hardware on them.
Seriously impressed....I know they'll sound as good as they look to.
Congrats!

David Floegel 03-24-2013 10:58 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Thanks you two!

Really, they sound awesome!
Yesterday I checked out the bassdrum (that's why the pedal is mounted on the pictures)..
No dampening, no "real" tuning - just tightened the screws on a bit.. Result was a wonderful, warm and deep sound, dynamics work fantastic.. NO comparison to before: A muddy sound without any warmth..

Damn I'm so eager to mic this kit and record it!!!

Pass.of.E.r.a. 03-24-2013 07:57 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Wow, that kit looks stellar!

I love that colour. Especially with the chrome hardware. It just works.

How much longer will we have to wait for the finished product? The wait is killing me!

Also, what heads do you plan on putting on?

-Jonathan

David Floegel 03-24-2013 10:56 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pass.of.E.r.a. (Post 1122113)
Wow, that kit looks stellar!

I love that colour. Especially with the chrome hardware. It just works.

How much longer will we have to wait for the finished product? The wait is killing me!

Also, what heads do you plan on putting on?

-Jonathan

Thanks man! I just love it!

In a week it has to be finished as I have a gig where I need it ;)
So I hope that my bassdrum legs will arrive wednesday than I can make a video and photos on thursday and friday :)

Heads.. Well, for the live stuff with the DJ team I'll use ambassador resonant heads on all toms and emperor clear as top head..
Depending on the music I might go with emperor coated as well..

BacteriumFendYoke 03-25-2013 04:02 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
It was a bold colour choice but with the long lugs it looks great. Love it, David.

David Floegel 03-25-2013 07:12 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Ok guys I'm desperate!

I just tried to put some heads on the drums - they don't fit anymore.
(Only on my 8" and 20" drum)

I don't really know why, because the veneer I put on is MUCH thinner than the wrap was.
The veneer was 0.5mm and even got thinner while sanding.
The wrap was about 0.8mm.

WHAT HAPPENED THERE?
I'm getting some kind of nervous as I NEED this kit saturday.
I tried different heads, no success..

WHAT TO DO?!

Arky 03-25-2013 07:17 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
David, did you consider the finish? Finishing the shells added some coating so while the coating may be pretty thin it could have added enough to make the heads not fit any more. It can't be too much of a difference though.

I'd try to gently rework just enough of the shell edges to make the heads fit. "Rework" = to just polish it gently, this might be enough.

keep it simple 03-25-2013 07:25 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arky (Post 1122452)
David, did you consider the finish? Finishing the shells added some coating so while the coating may be pretty thin it could have added enough to make the heads not fit any more. It can't be too much of a difference though.

I'd try to gently rework just enough of the shell edges to make the heads fit. "Rework" = to just polish it gently, this might be enough.

This is most valid, but also consider a possible change of shape/expansion due to the wrap being removed. Are the shells still round?

David Floegel 03-25-2013 07:28 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Thanks guys!


@ Arky: I don't think that the finish adds so much.. It looks like the shell is 5mm too big now.. Since we did only 4 layers of clear laquer I don't think it's enough.

@ Andy: I will check if the shells are still round. If not, what can I do to get them round again? Any easiest way?

keep it simple 03-25-2013 07:31 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalma (Post 1122458)
Thanks guys!


@ Arky: I don't think that the finish adds so much.. It looks like the shell is 5mm too big now.. Since we did only 4 layers of clear laquer I don't think it's enough.

@ Andy: I will check if the shells are still round. If not, what can I do to get them round again? Any easiest way?

Shit! 5mm too big? Wow, that's a lot. Check for roundness, then get back to me. I'm leaving out for band practice soon though (based on my performance Saturday, much needed)

David Floegel 03-25-2013 07:34 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Here's a picture:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17340676/shit.jpg

David Floegel 03-25-2013 07:44 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Ok I tried to measure from lug to lug on my 14" drum.

Position 1: 35.5mm
Pos 2.: 35.2
Pos 3: 35.3
Pos 4: 35.4

It really looks like they're not round anymore.
Even if I put the head on, on some places there's space and on some spaces the head is tight as hell..

// EDIT
Andy, how about this:
I could try to cut some round wood plates and put them into the shell and then put some cords around the shell again to put some pressure on it.. do you think it would last?

Mad About Drums 03-25-2013 08:08 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalma (Post 1122467)
Ok I tried to measure from lug to lug on my 14" drum.

Position 1: 35.5mm
Pos 2.: 35.2
Pos 3: 35.3
Pos 4: 35.4

It really looks like they're not round anymore.
Even if I put the head on, on some places there's space and on some spaces the head is tight as hell..

// EDIT
Andy, how about this:
I could try to cut some round wood plates and put them into the shell and then put some cords around the shell again to put some pressure on it.. do you think it would last?

So sorry to hear of your despair David, I've been following this thread for a few days now, bummer about the roundness of some of the shells, that must be the (unfortunate) end result of removing the wrap.

Yes, you'll need some kind of pressure to the shell to regain it's round shape, your best bet would be to be able to put the head back on, hopefully the shell will regain its roundness.

I've got an idea, try one of these quick release attachment to put pressure on the shell, put the belt at the top of the shell, but low enough for the head to fit fully on the shell, put the head on the shell, and very gently apply some pressure (put some protection as to not mark the shell), once the head fits, put the hoop on, tune the drum and leave the belt on for a few days, this might do the trick, but be ever so gentle when applying the pressure. The same apply for the reso side of the shell...

This is the quick release belt I'm talking about...
http://www.car-id.fr/186-190-large/s...sique-auto.jpg

You should find some in DIY stores.

EDIT: You want to put both belts (top and bottom) together to avoid possible breakage, to much pressure at one end of the shell could be fatal to the drum!!!

David Floegel 03-25-2013 10:51 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Hey Henri,

thanks for the kind words and the advice!


I just put some heads (top + bottom) on my 10" and 12" drum and put the screws really tight (especially were the shell is "too wide")..
We'll see tomorrow evening what happened...

No belts yet..

keep it simple 03-26-2013 01:36 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalma (Post 1122467)
Ok I tried to measure from lug to lug on my 14" drum.

Position 1: 35.5mm
Pos 2.: 35.2
Pos 3: 35.3
Pos 4: 35.4

It really looks like they're not round anymore.
Even if I put the head on, on some places there's space and on some spaces the head is tight as hell..

// EDIT
Andy, how about this:
I could try to cut some round wood plates and put them into the shell and then put some cords around the shell again to put some pressure on it.. do you think it would last?

Hi David, sorry, just back from band practice.

I don't understand your measurements. Did you measure from one lug to the next around the circumference? This is not a good guide to roundness. Some drift in the drilling is inevitable, & TBH, those measurements sound typical & not a cause for concern. You need to measure accurately diagonally across the shell from bearing edge peak to peak.

That said, the fact that your heads are showing uneven contact pretty much suggests your shells aren't round. The photo doesn't tell me much, other than the head is some considerable distance away from seating correctly. A wrap becomes part of the shell, & in many cases, acts as a stabilising element in the construction. It's removal can equate to warping & expansion. Unfortunately, I think your shells are suffering from both, although that's difficult to confirm without inspecting them myself.

OK, what to do. Your plan to gently force the head onto the shell is a good idea, but you should tension each screw evenly, not apply greater pressure to the pinch points. You're effectively trying to get the shell to follow the form of the head, so you don't want that to be uneven. Once tensioned evenly, place the shells in a warm place, preferably at a higher temperature than they've been used to. Although this seems counter intuitive (you expect things to shrink when chilled), it will help the shell to adjust. Hopefully, that will pull them into the round. Getting them round is critical, even if they're still over size. If you get them into round, but they're still too big, then I'm afraid you're into removing some thickness behind the head collar to allow the head to seat without hindrance. It may take some time for the shells to respond to gentle persuasion from the heads. Just overnight will likely not be enough.

I'm worried about this event David. If your photo is representative of just how far out the shell is, then this is quite unexpectedly excessive. Keep me updated before resorting to drastic measures. You'll be surprised by just how much wood can move.

opentune 03-26-2013 01:47 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Nice, bold! Those will look great.

David Floegel 03-26-2013 08:11 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 1122641)
Hi David, sorry, just back from band practice.

I don't understand your measurements. Did you measure from one lug to the next around the circumference? This is not a good guide to roundness. Some drift in the drilling is inevitable, & TBH, those measurements sound typical & not a cause for concern. You need to measure accurately diagonally across the shell from bearing edge peak to peak.

That said, the fact that your heads are showing uneven contact pretty much suggests your shells aren't round. The photo doesn't tell me much, other than the head is some considerable distance away from seating correctly. A wrap becomes part of the shell, & in many cases, acts as a stabilising element in the construction. It's removal can equate to warping & expansion. Unfortunately, I think your shells are suffering from both, although that's difficult to confirm without inspecting them myself.

OK, what to do. Your plan to gently force the head onto the shell is a good idea, but you should tension each screw evenly, not apply greater pressure to the pinch points. You're effectively trying to get the shell to follow the form of the head, so you don't want that to be uneven. Once tensioned evenly, place the shells in a warm place, preferably at a higher temperature than they've been used to. Although this seems counter intuitive (you expect things to shrink when chilled), it will help the shell to adjust. Hopefully, that will pull them into the round. Getting them round is critical, even if they're still over size. If you get them into round, but they're still too big, then I'm afraid you're into removing some thickness behind the head collar to allow the head to seat without hindrance. It may take some time for the shells to respond to gentle persuasion from the heads. Just overnight will likely not be enough.

I'm worried about this event David. If your photo is representative of just how far out the shell is, then this is quite unexpectedly excessive. Keep me updated before resorting to drastic measures. You'll be surprised by just how much wood can move.

Hi Andy,

no problem! I'm grateful for your help anyway!

Sorry for confusing - yes, I measured from the bearing edges, not from the lugs. I just used the lugs to get the right position.

I just put each screw to equal tension and placed them in my room in front of heater.. It should get pretty warm in here..
Damn I really hope that the damn wood will move back again.. It would be more than just a pitty if these shells wouldn't work.. :(


I'll keep you updated!!

keep it simple 03-26-2013 10:33 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalma (Post 1122745)
Hi Andy,

no problem! I'm grateful for your help anyway!

Sorry for confusing - yes, I measured from the bearing edges, not from the lugs. I just used the lugs to get the right position.

I just put each screw to equal tension and placed them in my room in front of heater.. It should get pretty warm in here..
Damn I really hope that the damn wood will move back again.. It would be more than just a pitty if these shells wouldn't work.. :(


I'll keep you updated!!

David, in front of the heater = no. In a warm space = yes. They need to be at an even temperature all around the shell.

Thanks for the explanation on the measurements, but it still doesn't add up. Are your measurements in Centimeters not Millimeters?

David Floegel 03-26-2013 11:01 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 1122763)
David, in front of the heater = no. In a warm space = yes. They need to be at an even temperature all around the shell.

Thanks for the explanation on the measurements, but it still doesn't add up. Are your measurements in Centimeters not Millimeters?

Ok - moved them!

Sorry... I was pretty tired and frustrated yesterday, I guess I wrote some sh*t here..
The measurements are in centimeters!

keep it simple 03-26-2013 11:17 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalma (Post 1122772)
Ok - moved them!

Sorry... I was pretty tired and frustrated yesterday, I guess I wrote some sh*t here..
The measurements are in centimeters!

No problem David. OK, so your shells are about 1/8" out of round. Frankly, that's just about standard for all but better intermediate & higher end kits. It could do with improving for sure, but it's not a deal breaker. It would seem the over sizing is the bigger problem. Check them later today & see if there's any improvement + report back.

Andy.

Artstar 03-26-2013 11:53 AM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Kalma.. Keep in mind, these are a KHS/Mapex product.. shells, fittings.. etc. Their production was still so-so in those years so maybe that is part of the shell problem.. Just a suggestion.

David Floegel 03-26-2013 06:38 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Ok I just had a little "loosening" session with my 10" drum.
I put of the head and I'm not sure but I guess it's not really better yet.. I put the head on and again tightened the screws on..

Maybe I can do something to increase the pressure?

keep it simple 03-26-2013 07:19 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalma (Post 1122949)
Ok I just had a little "loosening" session with my 10" drum.
I put of the head and I'm not sure but I guess it's not really better yet.. I put the head on and again tightened the screws on..

Maybe I can do something to increase the pressure?

I'm hopefully speaking to Dean this evening. I'll put this past him, & see if he has any suggestions. He's the man on this stuff!

David Floegel 03-26-2013 07:23 PM

Re: Restoration of my Sonor Force 2001
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 1122966)
I'm hopefully speaking to Dean this evening. I'll put this past him, & see if he has any suggestions. He's the man on this stuff!

Thank you Andy!!

Hopefully I won't have to set up my sq2 in the club on saturday night....

Thanks a lot for all your help and suggestions guys!


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