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-   -   Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104927)

Scottie15 03-06-2013 01:01 AM

Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Hello all,
I recently just purchased a speed cobra for an excellent deal that I could not refuse to replace my 5000s. I also heard about Eccentric Systems' "Quick Torque Cam", which is supposed to provide a more responsive and smooth feel to pedals. My question is that considering the Speed Cobras have the Speedo Ring, the Cobra Coil, and a recessed footboard, does that make them immune, so to speak, of the Quick Torque Cams? Do you think the cams would have any additional effect on the feel of a Speed Cobra?

CreeplyTuna 03-06-2013 04:51 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
http://www.drumgearreview.com/2013/0...ntric-systems/

Is this what you're looking for?

Scottie15 03-07-2013 07:48 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CreeplyTuna (Post 1115754)

Yes. Just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with the Quick Torque Cam ON a Speed Cobra pedal.

porter 03-08-2013 12:20 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
No experience, but given that this is a replacement for the spring attachment system (which, if it's the same on the speed cobra as iron cobra, is the same as the 5000 in that video), it would have some effect since it upgrades that specific part of the pedal.

FWIW if my DW 9000s were compatible with this system, I probably would have already bought it.

muzz 03-08-2013 03:58 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
$40 each......better work if it's my $ !

KarlCrafton 06-01-2013 10:39 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
I bought one of these at the Chicago show (2013).

They had a display of 5 or 6 different pedals, all of which I thought felt like s**t (when I've played them at the shop, on on someone's kit) BUT, WITH the QT cam, they all felt great. A BIG difference.

I love the feel of my Elims, and I use the Red cam and strap, so it's pretty fluid to begin with.
I didn't feel much difference at first, but when I played between one with the QTC, and one without, I could really tell the difference.
For one, the spring tension with the QTC is a LOT less--like half as much, for the same power using less effort. I did a little more adjusting, and it really feels better than before, and like I said, I LOVED them before.

I really dig it, and now I'll have to buy them for the other two pedals.

KarlCrafton 06-05-2013 09:06 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
The more I play the pedal with the Quick Torque Cam on it, the more I dig that thing.
Very smooth and fluid, with all the power I had with the spring much tighter.

It was a great purchase.

gish 06-07-2013 05:39 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Your stamp of approval has me intrigued, Karl. I have been playing the same Iron Cobra for close to 10 years now, and I've never really been knocked out by its feel. Its a reliable, well built pedal that I've never quite been happy with. I've been shopping for a new pedal recently, but now I'm considering trying the Quick Torque Cam with my Cobra before I give up on it. I've been thinking about a new Eliminator, as I'm not entirely sure what kind of cam I want (I THINK I want to go back to a round cam). Hmm, decisions, decisions...

Beam Me Up Scotty 06-07-2013 05:46 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
I've never seen this Quick Torque Cam before, but it certainly does look interesting. Funny, I have a Speedcobra myself I am now considering trying this out on. Curious.

KarlCrafton 06-14-2013 12:06 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
The IC pedal they had at the show I think was the Rolling Glide. The big clunky one (well...the Flexi is the only IC pedal I think feels good, but people like different things).

That IC pedal, and the Yamaha (I think direct drive, has the new ugly silver foot board) without the cam BOTH felt like peanut butter. "Workable", but not what I would call fluid at all.
Singles were OK, doubles took effort to get clean, forget multiples.
--They were just set normal, not made to feel bad (you could play around & adjust all you liked).

WITH the QTC, they both felt quite good, a BIG difference between what they are without the cam.

The Pearl Demon Drive felt VERY good with the cam, and the clunky DW5000 did too.

I have 2 other Eliminators, and I always bring a back up on gigs, so I am getting at least one more QTC for my back up pedal.

Scottie15 06-14-2013 09:46 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beam Me Up Scotty (Post 1148192)
I've never seen this Quick Torque Cam before, but it certainly does look interesting. Funny, I have a Speedcobra myself I am now considering trying this out on. Curious.

Thats my curiosity. Is the QTC more efficient than the speedo-ring and spring that come stock with the speed cobras?

KarlCrafton 06-14-2013 11:02 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Looking at pics of the SC speedo ring thing, you'd take that whole piece off--looks like by the black allen head screw.
You put a spacer that is included (3 thicknesses) on the shaft that the Connector/Speedo ring went on, to get the QTC and spring lined up straight, then you tighten it down.

There are a couple adjustments you can make on the QTC too, which "open it up" more (or less), depending on the feel you like by playing around with it.

This cam makes everything work more efficiently on the pedal.

That Cobra Coil thing I thought was kinda gimmic-y, but it's actually pretty cool.

There is a list of the few pedals the QTC won't work with on the Eccentric site, so look it up just in case.

The link CreeplyTuna has is a good one on the cam.

I went by what I experienced on pedals I DON'T like, and the QTC made them feel good to me, so I took a shot and am happy I did.

Scottie15 06-27-2013 10:34 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlCrafton (Post 1151111)
Looking at pics of the SC speedo ring thing, you'd take that whole piece off--looks like by the black allen head screw.
You put a spacer that is included (3 thicknesses) on the shaft that the Connector/Speedo ring went on, to get the QTC and spring lined up straight, then you tighten it down.

There are a couple adjustments you can make on the QTC too, which "open it up" more (or less), depending on the feel you like by playing around with it.

This cam makes everything work more efficiently on the pedal.

That Cobra Coil thing I thought was kinda gimmic-y, but it's actually pretty cool.

There is a list of the few pedals the QTC won't work with on the Eccentric site, so look it up just in case.

The link CreeplyTuna has is a good one on the cam.

I went by what I experienced on pedals I DON'T like, and the QTC made them feel good to me, so I took a shot and am happy I did.

I guess my question is whether or not the QTC would make a huge difference on the Speed Cobras as opposed to the stock Speed Cobra "Speedo Ring" and "Super Spring" set up. The selling point on the QTC is the quickness in response of the footboard returning back to your foot. Does it make much a difference doing that as opposed to the stock settings?

KarlCrafton 06-27-2013 11:58 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Well, you can spend all day adjusting every little thing on the pedal to get what you want....
I have had no time really on the Speed Cobra, so I can't say it would make a huge difference to your foot or not, but I'm pretty sure it would make it smoother than the stock Speedo ring. My pedal seemed smooth before, but it's really smooth now, without feeling too light.

The only IC I like is the Flexi, and I HATE the Rolling & Power Glide, but the QTC made the RG model feel nice to me.
The long board on the SC feels kinda strange to me. It's not really the foot board itself, it's the angle the chain is on, like it pulls backward or something...

Anyhow...
I could do anything I wanted with the Elim before I put the QTC cam on, as far as doubles and triple strokes. More strokes than 3 were not as clean before the QTC.

I can do 4 or 5 fast single strokes in a row now, cleaner and easier than before, & with way less spring tension. I don't really need to do any of that in the music I play, but it's something to whip out once in a while...

After playing with the QTC on my Eliminator--that I loved BEFORE the QTC-- it was totally worth the money for it. It's an even smoother stroke, and I have all the power with less effort.
A friend of mine got the QTC for his Ludwig ATLAS pedal, and he loves it (WOW!! Amazing! I love this thing!).

I don't know what else I can say, except try it for yourself.
Maybe contact the company direct. The guy was really nice, and cool too. If you don't like it, I'm sure you could return it. He said he wanted everyone to be happy with what he offers.

KarlCrafton 07-08-2013 09:32 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
OK, after a month and a couple weeks of having the QTC cam on the pedal, I will say YES, it will make a difference in the feel of your pedal enough to justify buying one.

Rehearsing yesterday, I noticed just how easy it was to play everything with power, but also play more dynamically and cleanly at ALL levels of volume.

I put the pedal without the QTC back up out of curiosity, and it was a pretty noticeable difference.

I am buying another one for the other pedal this week.

KarlCrafton 07-11-2013 08:03 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Bought a second one yesterday! It was shipped out yesterday too, so I should have it Saturday, or, Monday.

Scottie15 07-11-2013 10:15 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Ordered mine for my Speed Cobra double on July 3rd. Lucas kindly replied that he would send it out the day after the holiday (July 4th). I'm still waiting on it....

Reggae_Mangle 07-11-2013 11:05 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
I never get those videos where someone pulls the beater forward, releases it and then says, "See, it keeps moving. This is great". Is that a measure of how good a pedal is?

This device, however, looks quite handy and the science seems solid. Whether it suits you could be a matter of taste, but I imagine having your spring tension kick in at the end of the stroke seems advantageous.

Of course, some people like Iron Cobras because they're so heavy feeling throughout. Couldn't hurt to try one though, I would have used it on my Pearl Eliminators if I still had them.

"It's hosses, I say hosses, for cusses, boy-ee. Now get me a mint julep".

KarlCrafton 07-11-2013 11:19 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Buy me a mint julep, and then I'll talk propane.

The one thing that surprised me with this thing, is how much less tension I have on the spring. It's 3/4 of what it was.

ALL the power is still there, with the feel under my foot the way I like it (where I am controlling it, and can feel it under my foot), but the effort is a lot smoother.

I really noticed it doing shuffle patterns with multiple strokes going for a long period.
It is way easier to do them with the QTC on the pedal than without it.

KarlCrafton 07-14-2013 05:53 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottie15 (Post 1159870)
Ordered mine for my Speed Cobra double on July 3rd. Lucas kindly replied that he would send it out the day after the holiday (July 4th). I'm still waiting on it....

Did you get your cam yet?

I ordered mine on Wed (10th), and got it today. Had it on, and set like the other one in about 5 minutes.

Scottie15 07-14-2013 07:50 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlCrafton (Post 1160613)
Did you get your cam yet?

I ordered mine on Wed (10th), and got it today. Had it on, and set like the other one in about 5 minutes.

Ordered mine on the 3rd directly from the Eccentric website..still haven't received them....

Scottie15 07-18-2013 12:37 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Alright well I guess my PayPal account did not have my house number on the address so Lucas had to ship out the cams again, and I just got them a mere 2 days later. I gotta say first off, Lucas has been absolutely exceptional to work with. Talk about prefect customer service, this dude is about as hands-on & friendly as you're going to meet. Now on to the cams...

As soon as I got these, I installed them. I noticed right off the bat that I needed all 3 spacers that come with is because the Speed Cobra spring arm juts out quite a bit. In doing so, the spring is actually slightly at a slant in comparison to the cam hook. I don't think it will be a problem in the future, but who knows. Also, because of the spacers, the bar that connects the slave pedal to the main drive shaft doesn't slide into the drive shaft completely, but I still don't know if that would be a problem. I jammed a little with them and they felt a little weird but not too different. Much more torque at the end and the of the strokes so they are much more responsive. I just don't feel like I'm getting the power I got with the stock spring arms. I will experiment some more and provide further feedback

KarlCrafton 07-18-2013 11:41 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Yeah, Lucas was a very cool guy when I tried (& bought) the cam at the Chicago Show.

At first, I didn't really sense any real benefit from it either, but after messing with the settings of the openings, it really made the difference. After I set the openings, the stroke is more even feeling in both directions.
It was subtle at first, but then I dialed in the spring tension, and wow, what a difference in things I had a bit more trouble keeping consistent with over a whole song.
Things I could already do, most of that is just smoother, but the things I couldn't do as well improved a whole lot, and it's easy to shift from a couple feels doing shuffle beats during a song, and keeping one multi-beat pattern solid through a whole tune.

Scottie15 07-19-2013 09:27 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlCrafton (Post 1162006)
Yeah, Lucas was a very cool guy when I tried (& bought) the cam at the Chicago Show.

At first, I didn't really sense any real benefit from it either, but after messing with the settings of the openings, it really made the difference. After I set the openings, the stroke is more even feeling in both directions.
It was subtle at first, but then I dialed in the spring tension, and wow, what a difference in things I had a bit more trouble keeping consistent with over a whole song.
Things I could already do, most of that is just smoother, but the things I couldn't do as well improved a whole lot, and it's easy to shift from a couple feels doing shuffle beats during a song, and keeping one multi-beat pattern solid through a whole tune.

What do you mean by the openings? I did notice that once I loosened the spring tensions, they felt better.

KarlCrafton 07-21-2013 06:43 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottie15 (Post 1162403)
What do you mean by the openings? I did notice that once I loosened the spring tensions, they felt better.

There are two chrome hex head screws--one on top, one on the side. They open and close the cam for a slightly different feel.

Oh yeah, there's a much better feel with the spring tension lower. In my case, it was a LOT less tension. I got all the action and power I was used to, but felt better and smoother than before--without feeling too smooth, and like nothing under my foot.

Scottie15 07-23-2013 02:16 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlCrafton (Post 1162920)
There are two chrome hex head screws--one on top, one on the side. They open and close the cam for a slightly different feel.

Oh yeah, there's a much better feel with the spring tension lower. In my case, it was a LOT less tension. I got all the action and power I was used to, but felt better and smoother than before--without feeling too smooth, and like nothing under my foot.

What settings are you using?

KarlCrafton 07-23-2013 06:53 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Almost all the way "open" for the one on the side of the cam--there's only a little bit of space showing. It might even feel the same if I had it all the way, but I haven't messed with it again after I liked the feel.

The top one is pretty much in the middle of the sliding space if you look at it from the side.

I'd post a pic, but my new camera is too new for my computers OS version to load the stuff for it!!

KarlCrafton 08-19-2013 06:09 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Did my first ACTUAL GIG with the cam on the pedal. A 3 setter night.
Pedal felt even better than before, and was SO EASY to play. Very happy with the addition of the Quick Torque cam to my pedals.

MPortnoy 08-21-2013 10:16 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottie15 (Post 1163565)
What settings are you using?

Hey Scottie have you noticed any significant improvement so far??

I guess it must take some time to play with the settings and adjust to it but I'd like to hear what you have to say about it. I also have a Speedcobra and I'm still deciding whether I should get one or not.

JasperGTR 08-21-2013 10:54 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
This is the first I'm hearing about this.

What do these things do?

gish 08-21-2013 11:20 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlCrafton (Post 1172167)
Did my first ACTUAL GIG with the cam on the pedal. A 3 setter night.
Pedal felt even better than before, and was SO EASY to play. Very happy with the addition of the Quick Torque cam to my pedals.

Thanks for all of the detailed info throughout this thread, Karl, I'm going to pick up a QTC for my IC, before I invest in a new Eliminator. If I'm not mistaken, even if I still want an Eliminator after trying the QTC on my IC, the same one fits both pedals, so I can put it on the Eliminator instead if I want.

TreeClimbingFeet 08-24-2013 07:34 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JasperGTR (Post 1172988)
This is the first I'm hearing about this.

What do these things do?

They delay the onset of high spring tension until just before your beater hits the head, ie you have the spring looser than normal to start with, so there is less initial resistance but as the beater approaches the head the QTC 'catches' more of the spring and ramps up the tension which provides for a quicker return.

So the pedal is easier to push on, like having loose spring tension, but still returns to starting position as fast as if it was using a higher spring tension.

It's like the red beater cam on Pearl Eliminators but used on the spring instead, and it's adjustable.

iamjohn 08-25-2013 06:04 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
I just bought the Speed Cobra pedal. It hasn't even arrived yet. I read this thread and just ordered a Quick Torque Cam for it. You guys sold me.

Why not have the best performing pedal I can right?

JasperGTR 08-25-2013 07:27 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeClimbingFeet (Post 1173677)
They delay the onset of high spring tension until just before your beater hits the head, ie you have the spring looser than normal to start with, so there is less initial resistance but as the beater approaches the head the QTC 'catches' more of the spring and ramps up the tension which provides for a quicker return.

So the pedal is easier to push on, like having loose spring tension, but still returns to starting position as fast as if it was using a higher spring tension.

It's like the red beater cam on Pearl Eliminators but used on the spring instead, and it's adjustable.

The way you describe it, it sounds like it just makes sense. Why couldn't we engineer this on normal pedals? Seems as it would cost the same, just use a different jig for the cam. I may be checking this out.
Quote:

Originally Posted by iamjohn (Post 1174024)
I just bought the Speed Cobra pedal. It hasn't even arrived yet. I read this thread and just ordered a Quick Torque Cam for it. You guys sold me.

Why not have the best performing pedal I can right?

Let us know the results, PLEASE! I may be getting a couple of these.

Scottie15 08-26-2013 12:11 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Alright so here's my 2 cents after a months use:

The quick torque cam definitely makes a difference in your pedal response. Like a user previously mentioned, it does not utilize the potential of the spring tension until right before the beater hits the head, causing the beater and pedal to snap back quicker upon impact. Essentially, you're spring tension is much more lose than you would originally have it. HOWEVER, here's my experience with the SPEED COBRAS:

I used the QTC for a week before my spring snapped on my pedal. The Speed Cobras use a special "Super Spring" (that's literally what it's called) that uses a more brittle alloy. It was nearly impossible to find a replacement as well. What does this spring do as opposed to regular springs? Here is the official description:

"The newly developed Super Spring needs less exertion in the beginning of pedal action. When the beater rebounds from the bass drum head, you can easily feel a quicker response, and by adjusting the Cobra Coil underneath the footboard, you can acquire a smoother feel."

Basically, the Speed Cobra already comes stock with the same technology that the QTC is supposed to provide, thus, there is no need for a QTC on a Speed Cobra. Moreover, when installing all 3 spacers on the spring arm holder, the spring still wasn't completely lined up with the cam so it oscillated at an angle rather than straight, causing more awkward torque to the spring. This could've helped contribute to the broken spring.

One last thing, if you're using a double pedal, the QTC and its spacers takes up a bit of space on the slave spring holder arm side, providing less space for the slave connector rod to mount it. Eventually, I put my stock Speedo Ring arms back on my speed cobra and have been enjoying them ever since. All in all I think the Quick Torque Cam is a great product that really works, I just don't think it should be used on the Speed Cobra, which already incorporates the same technology the QTC promotes.

iamjohn 08-26-2013 01:23 AM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Ok, so I guess I'll use the QTC on my other pedal not the Speed Cobra. Thanks for the review.

MPortnoy 08-26-2013 07:56 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottie15 (Post 1174142)
Alright so here's my 2 cents after a months use:

Basically, the Speed Cobra already comes stock with the same technology that the QTC is supposed to provide, thus, there is no need for a QTC on a Speed Cobra.

Thanks, your review has been very helpful.
I can see the QTC being worth it for Iron Cobras and most of other type of pedals but like you said, there is a reason why the Speed Cobra already comes with a newly designed spring that makes the QTC not so worth it so I guess I'm going to save my money here.

Thanks a lot

KarlCrafton 08-26-2013 11:18 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Used on the other IC pedals (Rolling & the other one...Powerglide?) I felt a HUGE difference in feel in the side by side.
The Demon Drive, and DW's too.
I use the Red Cam on the Eliminator, and like I said it was smooth to begin with, but the QTC made a difference I noticed more after a little while, than right away.

The only other pedal I've played that feels as good to me as an Elim., is the Tama Flexi IC with the Cobra Coil. Not sure I'd use a QTC on that one. Things not lining up perfectly would be a concern too.
The Cobra Coil seemed like a weird gimmick, but it actually felt really good when I tried it.

My (3rd) Eliminator without the QTC still feels great, but, I can feel a tiny bit more effort is needed compared with the other 2.

iamjohn 08-27-2013 08:54 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
I did some hunting around and it looks like the Speed Cobra has been having consistent problems with springs breaking even without the QTC.

I think I'll A/B the pedal with the stock spring and the pedal with the QTC & a normal spring once I get it.

I'll let you all know what I find.

JasperGTR 08-27-2013 11:08 PM

Re: Quick Torque Cam & Speed Cobra
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iamjohn (Post 1174741)
I did some hunting around and it looks like the Speed Cobra has been having consistent problems with springs breaking even without the QTC.

I think I'll A/B the pedal with the stock spring and the pedal with the QTC & a normal spring once I get it.

I'll let you all know what I find.

This is the first I'm hearing of broken springs on Speed Cobras...

Please post link!

If this is an issue, I should probably keep an extra set, just in case. I have never had any spring break on me - ever.


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