DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/index.php)
-   Pedals (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27)
-   -   An ironic observation (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104232)

Bo Eder 02-09-2013 06:04 AM

An ironic observation
 
I could probably be burned at the stake for saying this, but I find it ironic that people would spend $250+ for a modern bass drum pedal that feels like an old skool vintage pedal. Jojo was saying that he was looking for a pedal that felt like some of the old pedals he used to play. Drum Workshop said their DW9000 pedal is the closest they've come to the old Camco pedal. If you wanted to go old skool, why not just stay old skool? I saw a picture of the great Lenny White playing with the reformed Return to Forever, and he had this nice set of drums. But his pedal was an old Camco. On Steve Gadd's first video, he had his Yamaha Recording Customs, but his pedal was an old Gretsch Floating Action.

If you're willing to get your hands dirty, if you bought an old vintage pedal (like a Camco, or a Gretsch, or a Tama Flexi Flyer) and just replaced the sealed bearings in the posts, you'd have a new pedal - or at least how that pedal felt when it was brand new.

I did just that recently. I bought one of those new Tama Camco pedals Musicians Friend was blowing out for $50 (I know, they're supposed to be $130, but this was a spur of the moment sale) and I Frankenstien'd it by replacing the stock chain and sprocket with a 30-year-old cam from an ancient Tama FlexiFlyer. I used it at a rehearsal this morning and I was amazed at how that pedal just flies. I was literally playing things I haven't really played before. The response was incredible. The solution here was the new bearings in the posts, and the cam with the strap. I can even put my old Flexi Flyer footboard on it if I want (that board is about 1/2" longer than the Camco one). There's also a guy on eBay who is refurbishing old Ludwig Speed Kings so they feel like they're brand new and his prices range between $80 and $100 - so there's that old skool choice as well.

I think my entire career I've been buying bass drum pedals and making them feel like my first pedal (an old Slingerland Tempo King, which was a copy of the Camco or Gretsch Floating Action too). And being the DIY kinda guy I am, I probably could've continued using that pedal if I wanted to maintain it. I've never played so hard that I've actually broken a pedal (loading accidents are something else). But think about it - when you shop for a new pedal - are you looking for something that feels completely different or like shoes, are you going for whats comfortable?

I have a theory that whatever your first pedal was, is what your foot likes. You buy new pedals as the years go on, but your foot really likes that first pedal, so when you think 'comfortable to play', your foot memory is going back in time. You can insist that yes, you have to have the plate underneath, or that the newer bearings these days are incredibly well engineered (like the Pearl Demon Drive), or that the newer return springs somehow do a better job than the old ones did. You may insist you need the longer footboard too. But something happened to me today when I played an old skool design with a lighter weight pedal but with new bearings and spring. And it only cost me $50. So at what point is it justified to spend $250 or $300 for a pedal that feels like a $75 one? I could've bought one as a spare and still saved $150 too.

Thoughts?

Kelly! 02-09-2013 06:39 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
You always have interesting posts and ideas/suggestions. I enjoy reading them. It's certainly hard for me to identify with this one however. I'm only 24 and my "vintage" pedal was this cheap yamaha knockoff that I grew up with until I upgraded to the mapex raptor direct drive double pedal, not too very long ago lol. I can't see paying lots of dough for a pedal that replicates a vintage pedal. Then again, I'm not entirely sure what "vintage" pedal entails for you guys... I love direct drive double pedals (changed my life lol) and i can't see goin back to the old school style. You guys are great though. I wish I could have grown up and evolved through the many drum styles and setups you guys were able to experience. Much love and respect to you originators of awesome!

toddmc 02-09-2013 08:40 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
You'll have to explain this one to me. While I can understand buying vintage drums to get that vintage sound, why go for vintage pedals as well (other than to keep the whole kit old Skool)? To get that vintage, not-so-great feel of yesteryear (but whatever feels good to the individual I guess)?
I take your point on your foot liking the first pedals you had though. Still getting used to Pearl Demons after switching from Iron Cobras.
BTW- forget grabbing an upmarket pedal in Oz for $200-300, you're looking more at $500+.

Hurgerburger Toadman 02-09-2013 09:21 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
I agree with you for the most part.
A lot of modern pedals I find have cams and other features that are designed to accelerate the speed of the beater to hit the head quicker, but I find I get far better results using a lighter footboard, beater and a balanced cam, which is a combo a lot of old pedals went with.
I think it's greatly a matter of technique though... If you're a hard hitter and you bury the beater most of the time, modern pedals will most likely probably cater to you feel and volume wise. When I was playing heavyhitting music a few years back, my modern pedals felt great to me, but I eventually started playing with a lighter touch and play both heel up and heel down and rarely bury the beater. I can't imagine sticking those pedals as they are on my kick anymore. Likewise, with my perfect balance pedal, I find I get far more control out of it, but at the same time, hitting hard heel up and burrying the beater gets me much less volume and feel odd. (Partially due to lack of kick muffling mind you)

So I think the many pedal designs straying from vintage designs these days are justified, because they probably are catering to a majority of drummers out there, since the industry seems to be getting progressively louder and more heavyhitting.
Their price tags though are definitely NOT justified. If you like a pedal, it probably is more money friendly and logical to find out what it is you really like about it, the combination of cams, footboards, beaters, etc. that work for your general playing style, kick drum size and such, and then yeah DIY with a cheaper pedal and replace the hardware.
The trouble sometimes though is finding the parts and pedals you want.
If you have the oppourtunity to obtain a vintage pedal, and play with technique that complements the physics behind it, then yes, I think it's quite ironic going with a more expensive pedal.

Sorry, that was a long-winded opinion, haha....

Dre25 02-09-2013 01:01 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddmc (Post 1109215)
Still getting used to Pearl Demons after switching from Iron Cobras.

See, in support of what Bo's saying, you probably won't get used to the demon drive.

I was an IC player too, I think the best pedal for us is the dw9000.

wy yung 02-09-2013 01:07 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
I have to deal with different pedals. A cheap Tama where I teach. My own Yamaha high end on my kit. I loved my old Speed King years ago. Pedals... My issue is shoes! The shoes affect me more than the pedals. The tread on my latest Dunlops is horrid for sliding fast doubles. Okay for heel down jazz though...:-)

toddmc 02-10-2013 02:57 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre25 (Post 1109247)
See, in support of what Bo's saying, you probably won't get used to the demon drive.

I was an IC player too, I think the best pedal for us is the dw9000.

Damn I was just thinking I should have gone with the DW9000! Maybe it's time for a change (once finances allow).....

Deathmetalconga 02-10-2013 03:09 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Eder (Post 1109186)
I could probably be burned at the stake for saying this, but I find it ironic that people would spend $250+ for a modern bass drum pedal that feels like an old skool vintage pedal. Jojo was saying that he was looking for a pedal that felt like some of the old pedals he used to play. Drum Workshop said their DW9000 pedal is the closest they've come to the old Camco pedal. If you wanted to go old skool, why not just stay old skool? I saw a picture of the great Lenny White playing with the reformed Return to Forever, and he had this nice set of drums. But his pedal was an old Camco. On Steve Gadd's first video, he had his Yamaha Recording Customs, but his pedal was an old Gretsch Floating Action.

If you're willing to get your hands dirty, if you bought an old vintage pedal (like a Camco, or a Gretsch, or a Tama Flexi Flyer) and just replaced the sealed bearings in the posts, you'd have a new pedal - or at least how that pedal felt when it was brand new.

I did just that recently. I bought one of those new Tama Camco pedals Musicians Friend was blowing out for $50 (I know, they're supposed to be $130, but this was a spur of the moment sale) and I Frankenstien'd it by replacing the stock chain and sprocket with a 30-year-old cam from an ancient Tama FlexiFlyer. I used it at a rehearsal this morning and I was amazed at how that pedal just flies. I was literally playing things I haven't really played before. The response was incredible. The solution here was the new bearings in the posts, and the cam with the strap. I can even put my old Flexi Flyer footboard on it if I want (that board is about 1/2" longer than the Camco one). There's also a guy on eBay who is refurbishing old Ludwig Speed Kings so they feel like they're brand new and his prices range between $80 and $100 - so there's that old skool choice as well.

I think my entire career I've been buying bass drum pedals and making them feel like my first pedal (an old Slingerland Tempo King, which was a copy of the Camco or Gretsch Floating Action too). And being the DIY kinda guy I am, I probably could've continued using that pedal if I wanted to maintain it. I've never played so hard that I've actually broken a pedal (loading accidents are something else). But think about it - when you shop for a new pedal - are you looking for something that feels completely different or like shoes, are you going for whats comfortable?

I have a theory that whatever your first pedal was, is what your foot likes. You buy new pedals as the years go on, but your foot really likes that first pedal, so when you think 'comfortable to play', your foot memory is going back in time. You can insist that yes, you have to have the plate underneath, or that the newer bearings these days are incredibly well engineered (like the Pearl Demon Drive), or that the newer return springs somehow do a better job than the old ones did. You may insist you need the longer footboard too. But something happened to me today when I played an old skool design with a lighter weight pedal but with new bearings and spring. And it only cost me $50. So at what point is it justified to spend $250 or $300 for a pedal that feels like a $75 one? I could've bought one as a spare and still saved $150 too.

Thoughts?

Double pedals are the ultimate expression of gear obsession, a holdover from 1980s monster kits that has gone mainstream. They take a huge amount of time and dedication to play well and have value just in a few genres like metal, which has more subgenres than listeners.. Aside from a few styles, double pedals have little use outside of annoying other band members and clearing an audience out of a room. So, if you're going to play them, I'd say at least go old school.

wildbill 02-10-2013 07:29 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Use whatever works good for what you're doing.

The less it costs, the better.

Jeff Almeyda 02-10-2013 09:18 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga (Post 1109502)
Double pedals are the ultimate expression of gear obsession, a holdover from 1980s monster kits that has gone mainstream. They take a huge amount of time and dedication to play well and have value just in a few genres like metal, which has more subgenres than listeners.. Aside from a few styles, double pedals have little use outside of annoying other band members and clearing an audience out of a room. So, if you're going to play them, I'd say at least go old school.


Your opinion is on double pedals is fine. However, "old school" double bass pedals don't exist. The original double bass pedal was a monstrosity that had a bent slave beater to allow it to strike near center and the slave itself was awful. No double bass player yearns for the days of the original DW double pedals.

The pedals Bo was referring to were all singles.

lefty2 02-10-2013 09:47 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
My first good pedal was Ludwig Speed King. used 1972. By 1981 or so I bought a Camco. I took it back after a few days and bought another speed king. I swore those were the best pedals in the world. Then Tama came out with their Pro Twin. I had to have one. I played those pedals for about 12 yr. Then I got an Iron Cobra single. which I still have. Around 2001 I got an I.C. Jr. double. Played that for about 7 yr. Now I've got a Speed Cobra Dbl. I've played Speed Kings a time or 2 in the last 15 yr. or so, and I can honestly say I have no desire to play them again. In the 70's they were the only pedal that I could play well. Now they don't feel good at all.

Les Ismore 02-10-2013 09:05 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
... if you bought an old vintage pedal (like a Camco, or a Gretsch, or a Tama Flexi Flyer) and just replaced the sealed bearings in the posts, you'd have a new pedal - or at least how that pedal felt when it was brand new.


Well, it helps to replace main bearings, but that's not the only spot that wears on a pedal. The achilles heel of old skool pedals is their heel plate hinge and most are not replaceable.

Drum companies look at their stuff and (try to) improve on it, its how they roll. Take TAMA as an example, they looked at their CAMCO pedal and improved on it, stiffened the main posts, messed with adding eccentric cams for a mechanical advantage, improved the heel plate hinge, improved adjustability, all the things their CAMCO pedal fell short on.

As mentioned, since pedals don't produce sound, its the ease of use and durability that sets the new stuff apart from the old designs... and in related terms 'feel' can also be considered subjective.

wildbill 02-11-2013 03:48 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Ismore (Post 1109764)

...Drum companies look at their stuff and (try to) improve on it, its how they roll...


Ya - that's what I was looking at when I recently bought a few new pedals. I don't really have fond memories of old pedals I used when I first started. It was long enough ago that I don't know what they were.
For the last several decades, I've used the same pedal though.

I posted in this area not too long ago, wondering if getting a pedal with some modern improvements would be worth the money, or make a in difference in the feel, or ease, of playing.
I can confidently say the answer to both my questions is yes.
The pedals are worth what I paid for them. And yes, they do make a difference in playing. That's not to say that they can perform miracles for you without having put the time in. For me, it's more of an incremental improvement.
And also, I think like with most other things, there's a point of diminishing returns. So on that point, there's a certain price level I won't go above.

Reggae_Mangle 02-11-2013 08:27 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Look at those Axis pedals, for example. Some of the stuff being done on them wouldn't have been possible on older pedals.

At the same time, for the life of me, I can't imaging playing a pedal like I'm being subjected to an electric shock But that's how it's done nowadays if you're talking about high BPMs.

At the same time, while I embrace technology, I draw the line at watching a video of a guy covering a Nile song using triggers and a Trick Bigfoot and then realise that he's just rubbing the beaters against the head at the end because he finally starts spasming hard enough for the actual bass drum to be heard over the triggers :/

- Reggae Mangle

Lovetadraw 02-11-2013 08:43 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Bo's original post is true for me, I learned on my teacher's Iron Cobra and I hold that as what I think a pedal should feel like.

Bo Eder 02-11-2013 09:01 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
OK, for the sake of argument, I get that newer technology has enabled some of you to play better and faster, or easier. However (and yes, most of us don't deem this guy as a mere earthling), you all saw Jojo Mayer's performance with Nerve on the Modern Drummer Festival 2005 DVD, yes? The man was absolutely flying on what looked like a Pearl Pedal - something stock with a plate underneath. Single chain connection too. Check it out and see his foot shots (there's quite a few of them). And then tell me that newer technology is really what helps him play so fast. I argue that yes, Jojo Mayer is controlling the pedal and like all tools, it does what he tells it to do. Although I am not at his level of playing, I do not automatically believe that I'll never be able to play like that. It's all in the desire. If you want it bad enough, you'll work on it to get it.

KarlCrafton 02-11-2013 10:50 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Well, my FIRST pedal was a POS that eventually was held together with coat hanger wire hahaha! I have no nostalgic feelings towards that pedal, or the hi hat stand on that kit :-)

I really liked the Speed Kings when I got them, but I don't care for them these days. The posts are too short for me.

My first double pedal was a Camco (around '89-'90), and I got it because it had springs on both the slave section, and on the left of the main section, so you could also use the "slave" part as a single.
It felt great then, and it feels great now.
I got a re-issue Camco last year after going back to my old Camco for a while, but, I never used it since I went back to the Elim. before it showed up to the shop.
I was kinda bummed when I saw them going for $50 though, since I kept the re-issue in the original packaging & bag to sell sometime down the road....!

Even though the Camco is cool, I prefer a strap. My favorite pedals to date have been my old 5000 strap (til DW changed stuff, and now that model sucks), the Iron Cobra Flexi, and my Eliminators with the Red (strap style) Cam.

I have an extra DW (strap) cam and strap, so I may just put it on one of my Camco's and give that a whirl.

I've actually been impressed with some of the less expensive pedals out there too. There's one PDP pedal that felt really good to me, and it was pretty dang cheap.
I think it was only $79, or $89 for a single.

The Old Hyde 02-11-2013 11:05 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
a few months ago i bought a late 60's speed king. removed the dried up grease and its like new. my first pedal was a speed king so i wanted one. Im still hooked on gigging with my double pedal though so i only play it at practice. recently in the studio i used a dw9000 single. what a freakin pedal. for me, i really dont know what im looking for in a pedal. at the practice studio the kit has a ludwig pedal with the single outside spring. i love that cheap thing! i noticed the owner has the beater adjusted low, not in the middle of the head and it makes it super fast.

Les Ismore 02-12-2013 02:12 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Check it out and see his foot shots (there's quite a few of them). And then tell me that newer technology is really what helps him play so fast. I argue that yes, Jojo Mayer is controlling the pedal and like all tools, it does what he tells it to do.

An assumed observation.

Unless you talked to the Jo man himself and he said "Yeah, its all crap, this old PEARL pedal is just as easy to play and will hold up just as well as my SONOR".

It may have looked like he was having an easy time, tho maybe he was thinking "...man its a little tricky pulling some stuff off w/this PEARL pedal, wish I had a PB right now."

I would bet the newer technology makes it easier for JO JO to play his sickest stuff.

Although you may be able to make an older pedal play like new, or like some cheaper newer models, the fact of the matter is everything out there right now evolved from those old pedals.

Angus Macinnes 02-12-2013 03:05 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
I started playing back in the mid 1960's and have always used the Ludwig Speed King pedal. It still does everything I need a pedal to do. Best of luck in everyones quest for the best.

wildbill 02-12-2013 03:16 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
There's also the issue of the parallel evolution of playing techniques and pedals.

The best example of this is probably proper heel/toe technique and long board pedals. Most people simply can't do heel/toe on a standard pedal, and have to adopt some variation of the technique or get a longer pedal.

That's not to say everyone is looking to modify their playing or type of pedal they use. For almost the whole time I've been playing, I played heel down/single pedal, and can do that pretty well with almost any pedal. Of course, some are easier or faster than others.
Some people do that forever and don't care to venture outside what works for them, and that's just fine.
It's only recently that I've been trying other techniques, and seeing some pedals are better suited to them than others.

Reggae_Mangle 02-12-2013 12:43 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Totally agree, wildbill. I remember trying out a Tama Speed Cobra at the store and started playing heel-toe almost instinctively. Very different feel to the pedal -- in comparison to the Pearl Eliminator I was coming from -- since the angle to the chain is smaller than it would be if it was a short board at the same height too, not too sure what implication that would have.

I kind of got the feeling that a longboard would work very well for a dancing kind of footstyle, but couldn't get the Speed Cobra to grow on me in the 10 minutes I played there. Plus, the piece looked like B-stock the store owner was trying to pawn off to me at full price, so I had a negative perception from the start.

I really liked the cobra coil spring, works really well if you can make use of it. I really want to try out more pedals, but seem to have run out of time to take a decision... Wish I could take a Speed King for a test run, seems really nifty and simple.

On the subject of new vs old., is more complex and more adjustments a good thing? Or bad?

- Reggae Mangle

toddmc 02-12-2013 03:15 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggae_Mangle (Post 1110249)
On the subject of new vs old., is more complex and more adjustments a good thing? Or bad?
- Reggae Mangle

Unless they're poorly designed in the first place or they adversely affect the functionality of the pedal, I don't see how having more adjustments rather than less can be a bad thing.
If you're someone who likes to tweak their pedals to the Nth degree you can go for it and if not you can usually play them "out of the box".

bearblastbeats 02-12-2013 05:22 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
I've owned DW3000 Double beater, surprisingly broke the foot plate during a set.
Bought the DW5000 used (mainly because my brother used them, and loved how he played)
I sold those for a new set of Iron Cobra's (with wooden beaters, IDK why?) It felt like I was running through mud.

I went back to the DW5000's I'm currently using. I took all of the weights off, put on those Slim beaters (IDK what they are called, but come from the Iron Cobra's?)

They're lighter, pretty comfortable (probably more comfortable once I go from the 24" BD to a 20" BD)

Sometimes I do find most other pedals more controllable than mine, simply because I've been lazy and need to tune/fix my gear.

Never paid over $150 bucks for a set of pedals. My friend had the DW9000's and he wanted to trade me for my 5's. HA

BacteriumFendYoke 02-12-2013 05:32 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddmc (Post 1110275)
Unless they're poorly designed in the first place or they adversely affect the functionality of the pedal, I don't see how having more adjustments rather than less can be a bad thing.
If you're someone who likes to tweak their pedals to the Nth degree you can go for it and if not you can usually play them "out of the box".

Fewer adjustments can makes things a lot easier, in my experience.

I'm very much a non-tweaker now. In the past, I was a tweaker and was constantly changing the settings on everything I owned. It nearly got to the point that I was trying to compensate technique for settings. In the end, I realised I just had to leave everything alone once it was comfortable and work on my technique - no matter what the pedal.

I can now dial a pedal in to where I want it within thirty seconds, provided it hasn't got a hundred adjustments. It is personal but I really loathe anything with over-specific or overly-niche settings. Too often, they're the things that get broken by people like me with hams for hands and too little patience.

skod 02-12-2013 06:17 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda (Post 1109570)
The original double bass pedal was a monstrosity that had a bent slave beater to allow it to strike near center and the slave itself was awful. No double bass player yearns for the days of the original DW double pedals.

True enough! I still have my original bent-beater single-chain DW5000 monstrosity bought new when it first came out, and it still works perfectly well (at least, as well as that whacked-out slave can possibly work). I have always loved the feel of that original single-chain master though, especially once I installed the ball-bearing hinges, and I have never used the slave enough for it to have pissed me off *that* badly.

I never found anything that would beat that master until I bought my nearly-as-old used strap drive (with the more modern integrated slave/master casting, but the old small bearing sizes), and replaced all the bearings. I've since bought another identical strapper for the E-kit. I keep telling myself to sell the old Frankenstein double, but I just can't make myself do it. It is indeed a pedal that only its mother could love. But I might need that master again someday...

What I *ought* to do is sell some of the other 4 or 5 pedals I have laying around that didn't make the cut. Argh. Still, restored semi-old-school pedals can be a big bang-for-the-buck leader. I'll let other folks be the ones to cut their throats on the bleeding edge of technology at this point!

Reggae_Mangle 02-12-2013 10:33 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddmc (Post 1110275)
Unless they're poorly designed in the first place or they adversely affect the functionality of the pedal, I don't see how having more adjustments rather than less can be a bad thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1110308)
Fewer adjustments can makes things a lot easier, in my experience.


Very contrary schools of thought.

My question stems from a persecution disorder. The day after I set my pedal the way I want it and leave my house, people change the settings so that I can be "controlled"....

Got so bad I had to get rid of my Eliminators... Does that mean the bad guys won?

(!)

- Reggae Mangle

Mad About Drums 02-12-2013 11:57 PM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toddmc (Post 1109215)
You'll have to explain this one to me. While I can understand buying vintage drums to get that vintage sound, why go for vintage pedals as well (other than to keep the whole kit old Skool)? To get that vintage, not-so-great feel of yesteryear (but whatever feels good to the individual I guess)?

Yes, whatever works best for you in the end, the latest design or a vintage pedal, but don't under estimate some old " vintage" designs, some current models are still being build using the very same basic function/structure as their "vintage" counterparts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggae_Mangle (Post 1110249)
On the subject of new vs old., is more complex and more adjustments a good thing? Or bad?

It depends on the person I guess, but I'd say it's better to have more, who can do more can do less, so with certain pedals, you can almost reproduce the "feel" of many other pedals.

If you're an experienced player, chances are you'll know what you want and what works for you, and this can help in the pedal choices.

However, a beginner or intermediate player might not have found his/her best suited technique/feel/need etc, so a pedal which can be morphed into many different "settings" and "feel", like the Mapex Falcon, for exemple, can be an advantage for those players.

Incidentally, when Tama released the Camco in 1981 - 82, it had some featured adjustment readily avaible, you were able to adjust the footplate and the beater angle, independently form each other, but at set angles on the pedal.

BacteriumFendYoke 02-13-2013 12:07 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Henri, I'm going to disagree with your assertion that more adjustable pedals may be better for beginners.

In my own experience, having too many adjustments early on means that a player can sometimes try to adjust the pedal too much in the first months of their playing. Rather than learning a basic technique and then tweaking the pedal to taste, many players instead try to make the pedal work for them without developing a fundamental technique initially. Furthermore, if the pedal settings are changed frequently (every day, for instance) in the first months of playing, this can actually hinder the development of embryonic technique.

I'll draw an analogy with sticks. I doubt many of us here would recommend a new player playing with a different set of sticks every day - of different weights, lengths, tapers, etc. Doing so may hinder the development of a coherent technique. Instead, the common advice is to go for a stick somewhere in the middle (like a 5A) and work from there after the basic technique has been formed.

I feel the same way about pedals. Set the tension, angle, etc. somewhere in the middle and then - after technique has been developed - adjust to taste.

Mad About Drums 02-13-2013 12:37 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1110453)
Henri, I'm going to disagree with your assertion that more adjustable pedals may be better for beginners.

In my own experience, having too many adjustments early on means that a player can sometimes try to adjust the pedal too much in the first months of their playing. Rather than learning a basic technique and then tweaking the pedal to taste, many players instead try to make the pedal work for them without developing a fundamental technique initially. Furthermore, if the pedal settings are changed frequently (every day, for instance) in the first months of playing, this can actually hinder the development of embryonic technique.

I'll draw an analogy with sticks. I doubt many of us here would recommend a new player playing with a different set of sticks every day - of different weights, lengths, tapers, etc. Doing so may hinder the development of a coherent technique. Instead, the common advice is to go for a stick somewhere in the middle (like a 5A) and work from there after the basic technique has been formed.

I feel the same way about pedals. Set the tension, angle, etc. somewhere in the middle and then - after technique has been developed - adjust to taste.

Totally agree Duncan, a good basic fundamental approach is what's required for a beginner for the few steps into drumming life, my post was more about pedal choices, is it better to have more than less for your hard earned money, as I said, who can do more can do less, you can certainly set a multi-adjsutemnts pedal "somewhere in the middle" as you put it, and I wasn't implying changing the setting every couple of hours, lol, but when you're ready, you can adjust to taste :)

Why buying so many pedals? if you can buy one that can do it all... back then when I chosed the Camco in the early 80's, I played the pedal for over 28 years, but it was getting a bit tired, lol.

I still recommend a new starter/intermediate player to purchase a pedal of good quality with adjustments, they'll save money in the long run, so many guys buy and change pedals every so often, I don't get it, buy the best you can, once, it will deliver for years to come.

That's the difference with experienced or pro players, they know what works and what doesn't, a beginner doesn't know.

muzz 02-23-2013 06:39 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Camco pedal is awesome, I have one from the mid 80's.....didn't realize just how good that pedal was till I just got a 3000.

Anon La Ply 02-23-2013 08:41 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Harking back to the OP. I has a Speed King for a long time and always liked it. I now have a new Trick pedal and it's brilliant - extremely adjustable and generally feels good. Wasn't keen on the beater, though. I like felt.

Bo Eder 02-23-2013 10:08 AM

Re: An ironic observation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon La Ply (Post 1112618)
Harking back to the OP. I has a Speed King for a long time and always liked it. I now have a new Trick pedal and it's brilliant - extremely adjustable and generally feels good. Wasn't keen on the beater, though. I like felt.

Wow Grae - a Trick pedal and those new Guru's? What's going on over there? We definitely want photos!


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com