DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/index.php)
-   Pedals (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27)
-   -   Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103507)

Reggae_Mangle 01-28-2013 08:02 AM

Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Hey,
Thought this could be an interesting ranking of pedals just in terms of how heavy or light they "feel", independent of spring tension and other factors.

Hope that makes sense to people, though I should underline the fact that I only have experience with Pearl Eliminators and I'm on the lookout for a new pedal. But based on my limited experience with pedals, this is how I would order them:

From light to heavy:
Axis AL-2
Pearl Demon Drive
Tama Speed Cobra
Pearl Eliminator
Tama Iron Cobra

Really looking forward to re-arranging and expanding this list. I'm sure more experience people will be able to correct any errors I've made in the ranking or add more pedals.

Once again, I apologise for the lack of objectivity in this kind of ranking. A lot of my assumptions are based on reviews, rather than concrete evidence.

I'm hoping as more people refine the list, we can come up with something that will be reliable.

Cheers.

- Reggae Mangle

Dre25 01-28-2013 09:52 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
From light to heavy:
Axis AL-2
Pearl Demon Drive
Tama Speed Cobra
Pearl Eliminator
Mapex falcon
Dw9000
Tama Iron Cobra
Dw5000

Reggae_Mangle 01-29-2013 07:10 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Not bad, my rankings seem to be spot on. Some nice additions there, dre25. Anyone have a contrary point of view?

Supposing I draw an imaginary line between the "light" and "heavy" pedals:

Light
Axis AL-2
Pearl Demon Drive
Tama Speed Cobra
Pearl Eliminator

Heavy
Mapex falcon
Dw9000
Tama Iron Cobra
Dw5000

Work for anyone? I think there are people who prefer light and others who prefer heavy. This sort of list might be useful in figuring out whether a certain type of pedal would be better suited for them. Though things change!

- Reggae Mangle

scarlit 01-29-2013 04:54 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
It's all relative. DWs have a very heavy beater stock. With a light beater, the 9000s felt like a completely different pedal. Same this with the ICs.

larryace 01-29-2013 05:23 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Speed king feels the lightest I've played, but I never played some of the pedals listed. I'm so used to "heavy" pedals that I don't consider them heavy anymore. I'd say the IC's are the heaviest feel I've tried and the DW 5000 is in the middle. As long as a pedal is set to spring back quickly, a pedal is the thing I think about the least, they all work fine.

longgun 01-29-2013 06:12 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
I always thought the DW5000's felt heavier than my ICs.............maybe just because of the beater?

I've played ICs for several years and don't consider them to be heavy at all.

Reggae_Mangle 01-29-2013 08:44 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
You can change the setting on all pedals to make them light by reducing the spring tension. This is a slightly different kind of "light" and "heavy" more in terms of a build quality, though not exactly that either. There is something about some pedals that make them inherently light or heavy when played, irrespective of whether you set the spring to max or min/make other adjustments.

Have your own perspective? Modify the list! At any rate, there will be some common ground that says pedals like the ICs are "heavy".

- Reggae Mangle

wildbill 01-29-2013 09:51 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
The lightest feeling pedal I've played was some kind of no-name, inexpensive, beginner student model.
It was built cheaply, from light materials, and my foot felt like it was playing air.
Could go like crazy with it, but even though it stuck to my foot like glue, there was absolutely no feedback from it. That was a little unsettling.

Reggae_Mangle 01-30-2013 07:46 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
If we start going into all the no-name pedals, the list would probably get really complicated. Might even start a trend of people searching for the hard-to-find no-name stuff, not unlike guitar players looking for "booteek" gear :P

- Reggae Mangle

Winegums 01-30-2013 05:59 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
I have to agree that Iron Cobras are heavy, ( I play them ) they have quite a bit of "mass" to them. I think it's the overall weight of the moving parts that makes a pedal feel heavy or thick when playing. I could also see a light weight pedal making control easier at higher speeds, since there would be less rebound momentum. I replaced my steel IC drive shaft with a demon drive z-link to cut down on the slave pedal mass and to reduce slack from the u joints. but my slave still feels heavier than master.

wildbill 01-30-2013 06:59 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggae_Mangle (Post 1105177)
If we start going into all the no-name pedals, the list would probably get really complicated. Might even start a trend of people searching for the hard-to-find no-name stuff, not unlike guitar players looking for "booteek" gear :P

- Reggae Mangle


I've never owned any of the pedals on your list. Only tried some of them out in stores.

So - no comment.

Reggae_Mangle 01-30-2013 09:32 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
As mentioned in the original post, neither have I! The ranking was based on research, planning to buy a new pedal.

I used to have the Powershifter Eliminators though and have tried an ex-bandmates Iron Cobra Jrs. Gave a Speed Cobra a whirl the other day at the music store.

So basically, I was shooting in the dark. I'm still waiting for someone to come and slay me. You know, "YOU KNOW NOTHING, WHELP. YOU'RE GONNA DIE TONIGHT".

- Reggae Mangle

wildbill 01-30-2013 11:34 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Oops - just noticed in post #3, you listed the DW9000. I have that one.

Everyone says it's 'heavy', but it doesn't feel heavy to me at all. The build is heavy duty, but the feeling is light to me.
But hey - what do I know - ha ha.

gr82bagn 01-31-2013 01:04 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Light to heavy based on my experience, as follows:

1. JoJo Mayer PB
2. Speed King
3. Tama Iron Cobra

Reggae_Mangle 01-31-2013 08:15 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
That wasn't my order, wildbill. dre25 revised the list with the addition of DW pedals. I just thought it would be interesting to draw an imaginary line dividing the list into two halves -- light and heavy, so to speak...

Where do you think it would sit on the list? Revise it and post. This is entirely subjective, but I believe it will eventually help determine some sort of "ranking" of the playing feel for people like me looking for pedals.

gr82bagn, some great pedals there... How about incorporating your pedals within the larger list so that some sort of tentative order can be arrived at. dre25 came up with this list:

Axis AL-2
Pearl Demon Drive
Tama Speed Cobra
Pearl Eliminator
Mapex falcon
Dw9000
Tama Iron Cobra
Dw5000

Where would these pedals go, ie. the Jojo and Speed King pedal?
1. JoJo Mayer PB
2. Speed King
3. Tama Iron Cobra

- Reggae Mangle

Reggae_Mangle 01-31-2013 08:17 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
DW9000 > Speed Cobra > Pearl Eliminator? Purely from a "playing feel" perspective?

This is not about weight, or how the pedal reacts. I suppose the best comparison would be an Axis or a Trick to say an Iron Cobra or a DW5000.

- Reggae Mangle

scooter540 02-01-2013 02:50 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
The Jojo Mayer Perfect Balance pedal is stupid smooth, just mad buttery. Can't think of any pedal that can contend with its light feel.

Reggae_Mangle 02-01-2013 08:50 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Append it to the list. That'll set some people off and we can have a good old-fashioned shoot-out.

- Reggae Mangle

gr82bagn 02-01-2013 11:49 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggae_Mangle (Post 1105605)
That wasn't my order, wildbill. dre25 revised the list with the addition of DW pedals. I just thought it would be interesting to draw an imaginary line dividing the list into two halves -- light and heavy, so to speak...

Where do you think it would sit on the list? Revise it and post. This is entirely subjective, but I believe it will eventually help determine some sort of "ranking" of the playing feel for people like me looking for pedals.

gr82bagn, some great pedals there... How about incorporating your pedals within the larger list so that some sort of tentative order can be arrived at. dre25 came up with this list:

Axis AL-2
Pearl Demon Drive
Tama Speed Cobra
Pearl Eliminator
Mapex falcon
Dw9000
Tama Iron Cobra
Dw5000

Where would these pedals go, ie. the Jojo and Speed King pedal?
1. JoJo Mayer PB
2. Speed King
3. Tama Iron Cobra

- Reggae Mangle

Ok, based on the big picture I see it as follows:
JoJo Mayer PB
Axis AL-2
Pearl Demon Drive
Speed King
Tama Speed Cobra
Pearl Eliminator
Mapex falcon
Dw9000
Tama Iron Cobra
Dw5000

Reggae_Mangle 02-02-2013 09:34 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gr82bagn (Post 1106429)
Ok, based on the big picture I see it as follows:
JoJo Mayer PB
Axis AL-2
Pearl Demon Drive
Speed King
Tama Speed Cobra
Pearl Eliminator
Mapex falcon
Dw9000
Tama Iron Cobra
Dw5000

Seems controversial to me! What do Trick and Axis users have to say about that? Anyone plan to use two Jojo singles on their double bass drums? Why? Why not?

I'm also wondering about the placement of the Mapex Falcon above the DW9000 in the list. Isn't the Falcon heavy like an Iron Cobra, heard some people say that.

Remember this is about the feel of the pedal, not the responsiveness... if that doesn't confuse you, that is.

- Reggae Mangle

T-1000 10-19-2013 01:43 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Interesting thread, but how are we defining 'heavy'?

The amount of resistance against your foot pressing it down? Surely that is a product of the spring tension, which is adjustable in all pedals?

Or the 'feel' of the beater swing path as your foot presses down? I guess this is a product of the shape of the cam.

Which one are you guys using to define the 'heaviness' of a pedal?

wildbill 10-19-2013 03:35 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by T-1000 (Post 1190819)
Interesting thread, but how are we defining 'heavy'?

The amount of resistance against your foot pressing it down? Surely that is a product of the spring tension, which is adjustable in all pedals?

Or the 'feel' of the beater swing path as your foot presses down? I guess this is a product of the shape of the cam.

Which one are you guys using to define the 'heaviness' of a pedal?


It's gotta' be by subjective feel.

An objective measurement could be made with some type of weight measurement gauge attached to the pedal. To get high tech about it, an x-y graph could be plotted, with x axis given to amount of pedal travel, and y axis to amount of force applied.
Each time you changed spring tension though, the graph would change.

I've seen a lot of graphs like this done with compound bow cams. The amount of force required is initially high, and drops off quickly as the bow is drawn back. I'd imagine drum pedal cams work on the same principle.

I have to revise my statements about the DW9000 though. Now that I've had it a while, yes it feels a bit heavy compared to my lighter pedals. The smoothness is very deceptive at first and seems to offset any heaviness felt.

I think Yamaha should be added to the list. Not sure where you'd put them, except to say I think it should be towards the lighter end.

Obliterator 10-22-2013 10:35 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Anyone ever tried the Trick Pro-1 V's?

MrInsanePolack 10-22-2013 11:23 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
I recently picked up a used Pearl 902 double, and I have to say I am quite surprised with it. Compared to an old school Powershifter Eliminator (the first one actually, double chain cam), this pedal is a bit lighter in feel. Seems a bit lighter in feel than 2004-2005 Iron Cobras also. These are all I have to compare it to.

Oh, and by feel I mean the overall effort it takes to play the pedal, pushing it down, its resistance on the way up, how easy it is to start and stop it.

Dr_Watso 10-22-2013 11:25 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scarlit (Post 1104882)
It's all relative. DWs have a very heavy beater stock. With a light beater, the 9000s felt like a completely different pedal. Same this with the ICs.

Funny you mention those. I'm using a big ol' DW beater on my offset cam Iron cobra. Wasn't getting enough "oomph" out of the IC's standard tiny little beater.

Obliterator 10-23-2013 12:44 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1191938)
Wasn't getting enough "oomph" out of the IC's standard tiny little beater.

With beaters like that (DW) the IC's would give a good hit on the bass drum though, and a decent rebound. IC's standard beaters are still pretty amazing though.. I Fixed them to a pair of Dixon's just for the heck of it, and the pedal was amazingly smooth and had a good rebound.

SgtThump 10-23-2013 03:29 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1191938)
Funny you mention those. I'm using a big ol' DW beater on my offset cam Iron cobra. Wasn't getting enough "oomph" out of the IC's standard tiny little beater.

I did something similar. Put the bigger DW style Tama beater on a Speed Cobra and made it feel alot more like my DW5000 (which I like.) Sounds alot better than the tiny stock Speed Cobra beater too.

sonnygrabber 10-23-2013 03:46 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Watso (Post 1191938)
Funny you mention those. I'm using a big ol' DW beater on my offset cam Iron cobra. Wasn't getting enough "oomph" out of the IC's standard tiny little beater.

Ha! I did the exact same thing for the exact same reason! Wow

beyondbetrayal 10-23-2013 05:17 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggae_Mangle (Post 1104751)
Not bad, my rankings seem to be spot on. Some nice additions there, dre25. Anyone have a contrary point of view?

Supposing I draw an imaginary line between the "light" and "heavy" pedals:

Light
Axis AL-2
Pearl Demon Drive
Tama Speed Cobra
Pearl Eliminator

Heavy
Mapex falcon
Dw9000
Tama Iron Cobra
Dw5000

Work for anyone? I think there are people who prefer light and others who prefer heavy. This sort of list might be useful in figuring out whether a certain type of pedal would be better suited for them. Though things change!

- Reggae Mangle


I agree with this.. but id put the 9000 as the heavest of them all. I didn't mind the 5000.. hated the 9000


id toss tricks in the light list too.

Reggae_Mangle 10-23-2013 12:10 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
I'd place the Trick at the top of the heavy list above or below the Falcons actually. There's "mass" to the pedal. It's extremely fluid. But the board seems to have this "resistance" or "upward buoyancy" that I find comfortable with respect to my playing style.

The Old Hyde 10-23-2013 02:23 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
I guess its all feel to each drummer because I played dw9000 in the studio last time and I really like it a lot. I didn't think there was anything heavy about it, it was like a machine! I didn't set it up or adjust it so maybe it was changed from the way it was bought or not, I don't know. I have a speed king, eliminators, and I have played on ic's. nothing feels heavy to me really but I also have a size 12 foot so maybe that's why?

newoldie 10-23-2013 10:24 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
I recently bought a used DW 3000 (new model) to use as a practice pedal with my Gibralter kick practice pad. It arrived in great condition and is very smooth in motion.

However, I noticed the 3000 dual chain was heavier in feel than the single chain 5000 (I bought in 1998) when used with a real bass drum, so when I tried it recently a group session, I didn't feel quite as nimble as I did with the 5000 pedal. The 3000 felt like it had more meat on the thumps than the 5000 did.

I'll probably use the 3000 for practice at home, and continue with the older 5000 for live music.
I wonder if the beater on the 3000 is a bit larger than the 5000.

beyondbetrayal 10-24-2013 02:56 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
changing the beaters on any pedal changes the feel..

now.. longboards are going to naturally feel lighter and faster...

but on pedals like the axis al-2 (not the x) and the demon drives you can adjust the VDL or the "power/feness" setting which change the leverage.

this can make these pedals FAR faster and lighter FEELING than the others. Not sure what other pedals have this. even moving your beaters up or down. adding weights, springs. distance from skin all that stuff change it.

after playing axis for years and demons for half a year now i had a 9000 for about 2 months. hated it. could not dial it in. springs, distances, everything. felt to heavy and slow for me.. but I'm used to longboards with a forwarder beater. I do have another buddy who found them heavy too...... I found the 5000's pretty close to my IC that i had for years........ but i used big wood beaters on the IC.


beater distance makes a bigger difference than people think for this too... if your beaters are 2 inches away.. it will feel light with your springs maxed... if your beaters are 180 degrees.. your springs could be next to off and it would be hard to hit the skin.


its best to learn how your pedals work, how you like your settings and feel.. then find a pedal that can achieve that. I prefer light fast pedals that hit hard and i can do heel toe on... so that leaves me axis or demons. maybe tricks but I'm not putting a deposit on them incase i hate em

drumphil31 11-05-2013 07:35 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Damn, y'all very confused...

65lincoln 12-25-2013 03:16 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
It's all kind of relative unless you label one pedal to be a "regular" feel pedal. And then, all other pedals can be determined to be heavy or light when compared to that one regular feel pedal.

shemp 12-25-2013 03:58 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
This is usually the kind of thing I dig into....and somewhere I listed all the pedals I have which is large number of the ones here,...maybe all except the iron cobra...

I do agree that some may feel "lighter" out of the gate....meaning with the factory setup, however there are several things as others have pointed out that can be adjusted including the torque arm affect of how far up the beater mass is from the rotational axis.

All of these facets can be changed...yes the dw 9000, 7000, etc has that glorious wrecking ball feel with the larger beater which I enjoy....

The reason i halted from going berserk with my typical anal appraisal, is I found that, for me, I can make each pedal be what I want it to be....and I can be as good as I can possibly be on a p900 or the pro1v. It's all in the adjustment and parameter control. So, out of convenience I stick with the Trick cause it is so easy to reach down and adjust the things I like to mess with from time to time.

Due to the spring compression design and motion of the trick, it has the most apparent feel difference when accelerating towards the batter head, but not enough to proclaim it the "best"...

They are all great pedals and can be manipulated to do what you want with some cases of changing the style of/weight of the beater. They can all feel very light with some adjustment.

kyle 12-25-2013 04:05 AM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
I got an Offset double kick pedal. It feels really heavy compared to my P900s. Also feels a LOT heavier than a DW9000 I've played on but I haven't played a 9000 in a while so I'm going off a foggy memory there.

drumming sort of person 12-26-2013 09:11 PM

Re: Pedal ranking - Light to Heavy Feel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scarlit (Post 1104882)
With a light beater, the 9000s felt like a completely different pedal.

Interesting. It would be helpful if the weight was listed in the description of beaters then wouldn't it?


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com