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-   -   UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138994)

larryace 10-10-2017 01:05 AM

UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Warning, this could be long. So many things affected me while I was there, it was overwhelming, in the best possible way. I'm sharing all of it.

So it was a dark and stormy night...

...and the drum show is over, it's Sunday night. After the Drummer night benefit thing, this is where we all split up and go our various ways. Ben Turk, David Floegal, Liam (Madges drum teacher and David's friend) Andy and I all said our goodbyes and Ben, Andy and I break down the Guru booths, and load up. Andy drove himself and I home in the rental truck, but not before we stopped for some much needed dinner. Andy's place was about 3 hours from the venue. It was dark and wet so I couldn't see how beautiful the English countryside is.

Got back to Andy's and met Yvonne for the first time. What a great couple they make. She's awesome, a lot of fun. I got on great with her, straight away. We all talked awhile then it was time to hit the hay.

The next morning I got up and I felt like Dorothy opening the door for the first time in Oz. OMG the sheer beauty of where we were...I wasn't expecting it to be that gorgeous. Unbelievably pastoral. Beautiful rolling countryside as far as the eye could see. When I flew in, I noticed England has the most gorgeous looking landscape from the air. Everything is so well defined, and it seemed all the fields were beautifully manicured. It looked like a patchwork quilt, with all the pieces differently shaped, like an interlocking puzzle. Absolutely beautiful.

Andy explained to me that the hedgerows....which were everywhere...are responsible for that clearly defined look. The hedgerows aren't like the kind we have here in PA. PA hedges are soft by comparison. UK hedgerows are full of thorns, hawthorne for example. Brutal, effective natural fencing. It's a mixed bunch of different species of hedges with long ass thorns.. They have to trim the every year, a Herculean annual task. They really define the countryside.

The patchwork quilt look Andy explained is because nothing was planned. Farms grew organically over time and borders are everything but square. It's part of the charm.
The surrounding houses are so old. Stone structures, steeped in tradition, built to last forever, no 2 alike. I saw a house with a thatched roof, just like you would see in the fairy tale books. It was like 4 feet thick. I only saw one. I was absolutely overwhelmed by the beauty and old school ways. No frame houses anywhere in that country. It's all masonry, after the fire of 1666. No asphalt shingles. Flat stone or curved tile roofing. So fn cool, words fail. I'll put pics up soon.

The roads! A 2 lane road is literally the size of a single lane here in the States. This is rural mind you. People have to back up so oncoming traffic could pass. Insane! There's hardly any traffic there but it happens enough. We had to jam brakes on one time. Which is commonplace, I got the feeling. No big deal. That would never fly in America lol.

OK so we get up in the morning and come down for tea and I had breakfast. (Andy is a lunch guy) Andy has one of those side doors in his house where the top and bottom open independently...I opened the top part and what do I see? Ripe grapes. All around the house, about the height of the lower roofline. Kilos of grapes. So I reached out and ate outside grapes...from inside the house. Too cool. I walked around his property, drinking in the beauty, and wouldn't you know it, I looked down...Every clover was a 4 leaf clover! I figured out that Andy is actually a leprechaun. He'll be 341 in 8 months :)

After breakfast and tea, Andy and I unloaded the rental truck, then we drove in town to drop it off. His car was there. Andy drove me around Hereford (Home of Hereford beef) and showed me some fairly amazing cathedrals and we walked around the market part of town. The architecture completely knocks me out there. Charm. Scads of it. So old. So so much history. Steeped in tradition. Old school craftsmanship literally everywhere you look. Absolutely magical for me, the detail. After he showed me around, we went to the supermarket to get food for Andy's culinary masterpiece he had planned for that evening.

Yea, the supermarket experience is much better there. The food is about the same price as here, but it's like 4 cuts above in quality. The eggs aren't refrigerated. So fresh. Yellower yolks than the organic refrigerated eggs here. They have much more refrigerated sections in their supermarkets. Real food needs refrigeration, so there's more real food. Everything is better compared to the Philly area. The supermarket food is of a much higher quality, no GMO crap, the people are much friendlier from a baseline POV, and it's utterly beautiful. Cops don't carry guns. People come first more than here, in a big way. Everyone rolls their own tobacco cigarettes. Yea, give me more o' that.

Oh did I mention the gypsys? We saw friggin modern day gypsys, complete with the funky, highly ornamated, curvy wood, horse drawn painted gypsy wagons. They were light blue. Wow! I had no idea this still went on. So apparently, on public roads, in the UK, you can just pull over....and stay a few days! What? That would never fly here! That's what the gypsys do. They sell crafts, and squeak by, avoiding taxes. And the government is OK with that. See what I mean? People come first. Wild. Unexpected. The way it should be here.

Andy went on to explain that there are 2 classes of traveling people. He called them the Travel-ese and the Roman-ese (sp?) The latter group (IIRC) is the undesirable group as they trespass on peoples property, and leave a mess. They are non traditional, travelling in gas powered Motorhomes if I understood correctly. The former group are traditional. Well taken care of horses pull their wagons. According to Andy, they are respectful and easily tolerated by the locals.

Andy's farmer stories...you gotta love these traditional farmers. If the unwanted traveling class trespasses on someone's land, they all rally together and bring out their heavy equipment and threaten to roll over their caravan lol. They stick together. Right on.

Also, there's way more sheep than people. There's sheep everywhere. Just roaming the countryside unattended. They spray paint the wool, just a little, to identify which farmer they belong to. So in a beautiful rolling green utterly pastoral hillside, there's sheep, with day glo spray paint on them lol. Eating grass, all day.

After driving in and around Hereford, we went back to Andy's place. There, he cooked us a meal I won't soon forget. I ate good while I was there, but Andy's masterpiece was easily my favorite meal of the week. Somehow he paired tenderloin and pasta and other stuff that was incredibly delicious. He paired it with this great red wine, and the combination of the food and wine really worked together to put it over the top. Absolutely fantastic.

Andy has a little Stirling engine fan thingy that circulates air from his wood stove in his fireplace. The Stirling engine needs it's base heated to work. Andy said he hasn't tried it yet. So I suggested we put it on a frying pan to test it. It works :)

After we had that great meal, Yvonne walked the dogs and broke out her night vision, trying to spot birds of prey. Yea, that's what we do here too lol. Yvonne is a scream. She splits wood with a hydraulic splitter, she's so good at it she makes kindling with it. What a salt of the earth woman, you gotta love her. Not that she has to, but she works part time too. You gotta respect that.

Another thing that struck me hard was how dead quiet is was there at night. No crickets! No anything! Silence. And dark. I could not see my hand in front of my face 20 feet from the house. The only thing I didn't get to see was the stars. Clouds all week. Andy said it's spectacular, you can see the gas and dust clouds...

So that was my first day there. Wow. Blown away with everything. Andy is an exceptional human being, and Madge agrees with that. I asked her if there are a lot of people like him, and she said no. He really is something else, one of my heros for sure. A more generous man you will not find, but he's also tough as nails.

I'll add day 2 at Andy's in a couple days, as well as some pics.

Part 3 is all about my magical stay with Madge and Glyn in Wales. I felt so honored when she invited me to stay at her place, wow. Far and away, it was the best trip of my lifetime, by a large margin.

Thank you Madge and Andy for... nothing less than the very top experience of my life, to date. It sounds so feeble but thank you.

no talent 10-10-2017 02:46 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Larry, sounds like one of those once in a lifetime trips. Very cool. great read, cant wait to see the rest. Did you get to sneak into the Guru drum loft and jam out??

larryace 10-10-2017 02:50 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by no talent (Post 1527006)
Larry, sounds like one of those once in a lifetime trips. Very cool. great read, cant wait to see the rest. Did you get to sneak into the Guru drum loft and jam out??

The Guru drum loft was emptied for the show, so no. Drums were low priority for me staying at Andy's place. Soaking in all the beauty and marveling at just about everything was all my mind could handle. In fact I don't think I even touched a drum while I was at his house.

GetAgrippa 10-10-2017 02:59 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Wow Larry, that was well written man, transported me right there. I just love all the details, warmth of the people-and people oriented, great food, great company, great culture, unbelievable vistas, damn dude. Warms my heart.

Midnite Zephyr 10-10-2017 03:01 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Sounds like a top notch experience, Larry! Jolly well then!

(That's the English version of Alrighty then!)

opentune 10-10-2017 03:47 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
'bloody hell' Larry! Sounds like a great experience with great hosts.
My first day in Germany (where I lived in a rural area for 4 years) was the same feeling. Old structures, ancient bridges, small roads,

steadypocket 10-10-2017 04:50 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
I spent a few days in the Cotswolds a few years ago and in the early 90s I lived in Bedfordshire for a couple years. I totally get your fascination with the British countryside. So enchanting.

Morrisman 10-10-2017 08:17 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steadypocket (Post 1527021)
I spent a few days in the Cotswolds a few years ago and in the early 90s I lived in Bedfordshire for a couple years. I totally get your fascination with the British countryside. So enchanting.

We spent a week in the Cotswolds around Christmas a couple of years ago. Charming cottage in a charming village, beautiful countryside. Pretty much the exact opposite of Christmas in Australia, which is at the peak of summer.

Love the descriptions - reminds me of our holiday and so many TV shows.

BacteriumFendYoke 10-10-2017 08:41 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
It's not all like that, Larry! I grew up in a post-industrial town. My favourite view was a huge power station!

On the other hand, I get what you're saying. Comparatively things are old. I have no idea how old the house I live in now is but it has beamwork. If I were to guess I'd say probably 18th-Century, maybe 19th-Century - heavily converted though (and nicely done, I must say). You're near Philly over is the US - which is one of the oldest cities. What's the oldest you might see around there?

There's a house on my way to work, about a mile away that has 'historic building of Kent' on the side. It's a timber-framed Tudor house. If you look at the window-line, it's not just on an angle but it's wonky, undulating up and down. No two windows are the same in this regard and the whole building is on the wonk!

There's always plenty of new builds all over the place, though!

AzHeat 10-10-2017 09:05 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Larry,
Great read. Thanks for letting us live the experience through you. Itís been 30 years since I was in the UK, but some of your experiences really brought back some memories. I need to get back there again!

Erberderber 10-10-2017 09:53 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1527038)
It's not all like that, Larry! I grew up in a post-industrial town. My favourite view was a huge power station!

On the other hand, I get what you're saying. Comparatively things are old. I have no idea how old the house I live in now is but it has beamwork. If I were to guess I'd say probably 18th-Century, maybe 19th-Century - heavily converted though (and nicely done, I must say). You're near Philly over is the US - which is one of the oldest cities. What's the oldest you might see around there?

There's a house on my way to work, about a mile away that has 'historic building of Kent' on the side. It's a timber-framed Tudor house. If you look at the window-line, it's not just on an angle but it's wonky, undulating up and down. No two windows are the same in this regard and the whole building is on the wonk!

There's always plenty of new builds all over the place, though!

Yep, I think Larry was treated to one of the rather more pleasant spots of the UK, which doesn't give him the full picture. I spent my high school years living in the Medway towns (Gillingham to be precise) and my parents still live there. If Larry spent some time in Strood or Chatham, he'd want to get out of there pretty quickly!

Magenta 10-10-2017 10:15 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
The area around where Andy lives is stunningly and exceptionally beautiful - I think it may have some sort of designation to that effect. Certainly, the UK isn't all like that, but when you're on holiday you go to the nice bits, don't you? If we'd had time, I'd have shown Larry the flip side of the coin, just for the sake of a balanced view, but hey, it was a flying visit and we all wanted him to love it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1526986)
Andy went on to explain that there are 2 classes of traveling people. He called them the Travel-ese and the Roman-ese (sp?) The latter group (IIRC) is the undesirable group as they trespass on peoples property, and leave a mess. They are non traditional, travelling in gas powered Motorhomes if I understood correctly. The former group are traditional. Well taken care of horses pull their wagons. According to Andy, they are respectful and easily tolerated by the locals.

Other way round, Lar. Romanies (whom I've never come across in my life and didn't think existed any more) are the traditional ones. Travellers are the ones who you really don't want pitching up in your front garden.


Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1526986)
Andy is an exceptional human being, and Madge agrees with that. I asked her if there are a lot of people like him, and she said no. He really is something else, one of my heros for sure. A more generous man you will not find

100% this. You all know that he's been very, very good to me when he had absolutely no need to be and for no advantage whatsoever to himself - on the contrary, he has put himself out considerably on my behalf. And I am far from the only one who has benefited from his friendship and generosity, so if you think "He can't possibly be THAT kind", I'm here to tell you that he can, and he's for real. And I'm only talking about the people I know he's been good to. There must be others that I don't know about. But yeah, not a guy I'd like to be on the wrong side of!

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1526986)
Thank you Madge and Andy for... nothing less than the very top experience of my life, to date. It sounds so feeble but thank you.

You are the very best type of guest, Larry. You loved all the things we love! It's just a pity you couldn't stay longer.

aydee 10-10-2017 10:27 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1526986)
.... Andy is an exceptional human being,....

Yea, I had a feeling...


....

BacteriumFendYoke 10-10-2017 05:42 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erberderber (Post 1527045)
Yep, I think Larry was treated to one of the rather more pleasant spots of the UK, which doesn't give him the full picture. I spent my high school years living in the Medway towns (Gillingham to be precise) and my parents still live there. If Larry spent some time in Strood or Chatham, he'd want to get out of there pretty quickly!

Funny you say that. I was in Strood on Sunday. Grew up in Gravesend...

SquadLeader 10-10-2017 06:14 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
I have American/Canadian friends stay at my house at least twice a year, sometimes more. I got weird hobbies that attract many overseas friends. In fact a friend of mine shares two hobbies with me, he plays drums, and he plays a WW2 table top boardgame. And I noticed a couple of years ago that he was on two forums, this for drumming, and also AN Other dedicated to the other thing.....SMALL WORLD.

Where I come from ain't as nice as Herefordshire (know Herefordshire well and it's truly stunning), but the Amis are always blown away by how old everything is. They seem to love it.

My favourite ever comment was from my pal from Austin, Texas. I'd taken him to one of the very old pubs in Manchester. He took a look round and yelled "MARTY, THIS PUBS OLDER THAN MURICA".

Not, technically true, but I know what he meant....I still laugh about it to this day.

This guy loved some of the totally whacky shit that you get over here. Like there is a pub here which is in the old Manchester Orphanage building....and the building remains how it was right back in the early 1800s as an orphanage. Right up to the hooks still up on the shiny tiled changing room walls.

SquadLeader 10-10-2017 06:18 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Erberderber (Post 1527045)
Yep, I think Larry was treated to one of the rather more pleasant spots of the UK, which doesn't give him the full picture. I spent my high school years living in the Medway towns (Gillingham to be precise) and my parents still live there. If Larry spent some time in Strood or Chatham, he'd want to get out of there pretty quickly!

I'm pretty critical of this country but one of the things I really rate it for is that you don't have to go very far at all (usually 15-20 minutes drive) to be away from the cessier parts and into the beautiful areas.

I live near Rochdale, an old industrial mill town quite run down these days and pretty 'rough'. But I can drive literally five minutes and be in an old coaching pub atop the moors in Edenfield which is just wonderful and scenic.

We're a very small country in that regard

opentune 10-10-2017 06:25 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader (Post 1527083)
Like there is a pub here which is in the old Manchester Orphanage building....and the building remains how it was right back in the early 1800s as an orphanage. Right up to the hooks still up on the shiny tiled changing room walls.

Cool. Is it really true a lot (half?) of the pubs in UK are closing down? ...due to decrease in drinkers and or new smoking laws.
I read this on the news sometimes, but I wondered if its just media hyping a story.
Every Brit I know here where I live laments the lack of 'pub culture' here in N America. The ability to just stop for a pint on the way home.

BacteriumFendYoke 10-10-2017 06:38 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader (Post 1527084)
I'm pretty critical of this country but one of the things I really rate it for is that you don't have to go very far at all (usually 15-20 minutes drive) to be away from the cessier parts and into the beautiful areas.

I live near Rochdale, an old industrial mill town quite run down these days and pretty 'rough'. But I can drive literally five minutes and be in an old coaching pub atop the moors in Edenfield which is just wonderful and scenic.

We're a very small country in that regard

We really are. Despite living in the post-industrial wasteland of Gravesend, we only had to drive about 15 minutes and we could walk for miles upon miles in open countryside. In fact, my school used to do a 20 mile sponsored walk every year from the middle of Gravesend and either up the bank of the Thames to Cliffe marshes or up to Luddesdown, which is as beautiful as it sounds.

Out of my front door, I have open countryside for miles around. Except for the M20 and HS1 train line 500 yards away...

SquadLeader 10-10-2017 06:42 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by opentune (Post 1527086)
Cool. Is it really true a lot (half?) of the pubs in UK are closing down? ...due to decrease in drinkers and or new smoking laws.
I read this on the news sometimes, but I wondered if its just media hyping a story.
Every Brit I know here where I live laments the lack of 'pub culture' here in N America. The ability to just stop for a pint on the way home.

Over 20 a week closing down nationally. No decrease in drinkers but more people now drink at home. The idea of the 'local' pub where you'd nip in for one on your way home, and pop in three or four nights a week have largely disappeared.

The smoking ban was a bit of a tipping point, but it's largely down to the outrageously low cost of alcohol in supermarkets. Why go the pub and spend £3 on a pint if when you can get 4 pints of beer for £5 from a supermarket?

Still plenty around and it's largely the good pubs and often the none tied pubs (who therefore don't end up getting stiffed by the tying brewery) which have remained open and in some cases strengthened as their competition have fallen away.

It's sort of sad to a point...but then we did have just too many pubs (IMHO).

SquadLeader 10-10-2017 06:45 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1527087)
We really are. Despite living in the post-industrial wasteland of Gravesend, we only had to drive about 15 minutes and we could walk for miles upon miles in open countryside. In fact, my school used to do a 20 mile sponsored walk every year from the middle of Gravesend and either up the bank of the Thames to Cliffe marshes or up to Luddesdown, which is as beautiful as it sounds.

Out of my front door, I have open countryside for miles around. Except for the M20 and HS1 train line 500 yards away...

Coincidentally I'm in Gravesend on Friday. Staying over at that Best Western (Manor Hotel) en-route to seeing one of my clients down there (on Medway City Estate). Kent is really pretty beautiful on the whole. Do they still call it "the garden of England"

JohnoWorld 10-10-2017 06:49 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by opentune (Post 1527086)
Cool. Is it really true a lot (half?) of the pubs in UK are closing down? ...due to decrease in drinkers and or new smoking laws.
I read this on the news sometimes, but I wondered if its just media hyping a story.
Every Brit I know here where I live laments the lack of 'pub culture' here in N America. The ability to just stop for a pint on the way home.

yep, closing at an alarming rate.

The reasons for which are quite plentiful, but it seemed to start when the smoking ban kicked in.

We talk about pub culture, but if no-one goes anymore, how can it be a culture?

Personally (and of course this is just my opinion) I believe it's a working class part of our culture that those in charge want to eradicate. All they want is family pubs, restaurants etc so that we can appear "cultured".

Looking at the smoking ban objectively - it was a directive from the EU. In the UK, being lazy, it was implemented across the board, absolutely no room for maneuvre.

Yet go to Germany, their lawyers went to work on it and created laws that allow for non-smoking pubs, smoking pubs and pubs with smoking rooms. Meaning that everyone has a choice.

There are lots of conflicting ideas as to why this has happened but these days if you go to a pub, on a weekday (and you're not in a big city centre) they're just full of depressed alcoholics, willing their lives away. Then they'll probably start a fight.

Where I grew up, one pub was called "fight club" because there were many, every night.

We simply don't know how to drink sensibly so I believe they are trying to shut down that part of our culture.

Just my opinion

BacteriumFendYoke 10-10-2017 07:16 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader (Post 1527091)
Coincidentally I'm in Gravesend on Friday. Staying over at that Best Western (Manor Hotel) en-route to seeing one of my clients down there (on Medway City Estate). Kent is really pretty beautiful on the whole. Do they still call it "the garden of England"

Manor Hotel? Funny. If you go down the end of the big road, there's a junction with a pub next to Windmill Hill - that's where I grew up. Probably about a mile from there but just down the road. Used to have a friend that worked at that hotel. Small World.

Garden of England? In parts, I suppose. My partner's parents live between two huge orchards, so there are bits like that still.

SquadLeader 10-10-2017 07:44 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1527097)
Manor Hotel? Funny. If you go down the end of the big road, there's a junction with a pub next to Windmill Hill - that's where I grew up. Probably about a mile from there but just down the road. Used to have a friend that worked at that hotel. Small World.

Garden of England? In parts, I suppose. My partner's parents live between two huge orchards, so there are bits like that still.

It's my go to place when I'm visiting Medway.

I made the mistake once of staying at that "Inn on the Lake". Jesus, it was like transporting back to the 70s :-)

BacteriumFendYoke 10-10-2017 09:05 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader (Post 1527102)
It's my go to place when I'm visiting Medway.

I made the mistake once of staying at that "Inn on the Lake". Jesus, it was like transporting back to the 70s :-)

Ever tried Nell's Caf for the breakfast?

Went to the Inn on the Lake once when I was about 12 for a wedding reception. Wow. Even 17 years later I think I'm recovering from the decor.

Larry - the UK is a really small place.

Erberderber 10-10-2017 10:49 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader (Post 1527091)
. Do they still call it "the garden of England"

Well if Kent is the garden of England, then Medway and Gravesend are the shed and the compost heap. It is very true though that if you go south of there it's really nice. Went for lovely country walk with the folks near Bodiam when I was visiting them in August. Hop orchards everywhere.

Dr_Watso 10-10-2017 11:16 PM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Larry, you deserve every bit of cool stuff you can get.

Andy, thanks for taking care of my boy from PA.

SquadLeader 10-11-2017 01:42 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke (Post 1527110)
Ever tried Nell's Caf for the breakfast?

Went to the Inn on the Lake once when I was about 12 for a wedding reception. Wow. Even 17 years later I think I'm recovering from the decor.

Larry - the UK is a really small place.

Nope but I know exactly where it is. It good ?

Anon La Ply 10-11-2017 01:52 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Larry in Wonderland. You write great travelogues, Laz.

BacteriumFendYoke 10-11-2017 08:29 AM

Re: UK trip part 2: My stay with Andy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SquadLeader (Post 1527150)
Nope but I know exactly where it is. It good ?

Apparently. My Mum took my Dad there for his 50th birthday breakfast. Admittedly that was 10 years ago. According to a few things I've read it's not as good as it was. Still better than service station plop though, I'd imagine...


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