DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/index.php)
-   Drums (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122026)

Orbit 01-12-2015 09:59 PM

Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Hi. I am thinking about getting a 14x5 Ludwig Black Galaxy Acrolite aka The Blackrolite. I normally go for the vented evans dry heads and I had this on a Tama Starphonic steel and it got rid of overtones and ring....which is what I like. I don't want all that fuzz n buzz going on! I've read a lot of forums and everyone says go with a coated ambassador for acrolites....!!!! Sounds like this is the opposite to what sound I want to achieve! ANY HELP APPRECIATED. I'm choosing the Blackrolite cos it supposed to be a dry drum! So I don't wanna try and make it "wet" with an ambassador.....??! CONFUSION BOILS MY HEAD....and....I even have a set of die cast hoops to try on it.....dry out even more??!

KamaK 01-12-2015 10:07 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Sorry if this seems to come from left field, but I always imagined that the entire point to a Ludwig Supra 'is' the overtone. A Supra devoid of any overtone might as well be a $50 CB700.

Are you certain that this is the particular drum you're looking for, and not the drier Festival/Pioneer Ludwig offerings? Can you supply an example of what you would like the end result to sound like?

Alternatively, is it possible to convince you to go with the stock Ludwig USA heads (LW3314 / C1114) and simply use a dampening ring you can throw on when it suits the occasion?

no talent 01-12-2015 10:21 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
My blackrolite still has the original Ludwig Weather master head on it and it sounds great. ( I think its a weather master, its not in front of me right now.) I crank the tension on mine and there isn't any unwanted ringing, also I use the internal muffler slightly .

Orbit 01-12-2015 10:26 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Hi KamaK and others....
Ok, well I am looking for a very very dry drum. My understanding is that aluminium shells are dry....hence considering acrolite. Any suggestions as to other makes is welcome. Or alternatively, turning the original question on its head....what is the best drum for a Evans dry vented snare head!! HAHA.

KamaK 01-12-2015 10:40 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbit (Post 1318565)
My understanding is that aluminium shells are dry....hence considering acrolite.

Here is an example I made a while ago to try to get a clear demonstration of the Acrolite's overtones. The drum really wants to sing, and I imagine that you would have to throw a lot of dampening at it, or tune it way up (as suggested above) to the point where it sounds like Ludwig's 4" Maple Piccolo offering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDL0vWFy-2I

If you're looking for the same Retro-budget-student-vibe as an Acrolite, and want to stay with Ludwig, look for a used Pioneer.

I'm certain that others will likely have much better suggestions for other manufacturers, as I'm pretty much a Ludwig-or-bust snare guy.

Bull 01-12-2015 11:25 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Blacros are drier than older Acros or the Classic Reissues. You aren't going to find a drier metal drum.

KamaK 01-12-2015 11:30 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bull (Post 1318587)
Blacros are drier than older Acros or the Classic Reissues. You aren't going to find a drier metal drum.

Are you sure? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMIyN2sxeNI

The only difference is the paint.

Orbit 01-13-2015 12:21 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Ok. I am now thinking that even though acrolites are dry, the ring they do give is a valued aspect of the drum, so me getting one and damping it up to the neck would be a waste of time and money and would be a kind of disservice to the drum. So....what snare shall I get then? Any make any model....you name it. Maybe it's best to get something super cheap......

wildbill 01-13-2015 12:42 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
What happened to the Tama snare?

Anyways - if you start with something bright and ringy, there are a whole ton of ways to tone it down to your liking.

Difficult to do the opposite though.

opentune 01-13-2015 01:22 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
The difference in Blacro and Acro is paint, not much drier versus wetter between the two. I do think the Blacro looks better personally.
Nice snare. If you really want it so dry and no ring, put your wallet on the top, upper left.

Winston_Wolf 01-13-2015 02:07 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wildbill (Post 1318608)
What happened to the Tama snare?

Good question. If you've already got a metal shell snare and like a really dry sound, why not consider a wood shelled second snare?

To me it seems to defeat the purpose of getting a metal shell snare if you're going to mute and muffle all of the qualities a metal shell has.

mandrew 01-13-2015 03:09 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
If you want drier, and I like drier, consider an Evans Genera, or Genera dry.

Bull 01-13-2015 06:09 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
I have had both a 70's Acro and a 2000s Blacro. The Blacro is considerably drier. The Acros have more high overtones.....or at least,in my experience.

Matt Bo Eder 01-13-2015 07:18 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Why aren't you just getting a wood drum then? Put a fiberskin on a 7x14 maple and tune it down....you'll get dry alright.

drumming sort of person 01-13-2015 07:40 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
This is the head you want. Dry, and it will look amazing on that black drum:
http://www.remo.com/portal/products/...erstroke3.html
http://www.remo.com/photo/catalog/3/8/711/714/big.jpg

keep it simple 01-13-2015 11:44 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder (Post 1318689)
Why aren't you just getting a wood drum then? Put a fiberskin on a 7x14 maple and tune it down....you'll get dry alright.

I have to agree with this. Tight reso, slack batter, loose wires = job done. Depending on budget, look for dry species such as walnut & mahogany.

oriollo 01-13-2015 01:34 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by opentune (Post 1318623)
The difference in Blacro and Acro is paint, not much drier versus wetter between the two. I do think the Blacro looks better personally.
Nice snare. If you really want it so dry and no ring, put your wallet on the top, upper left.

Actually, acro is anodized and blackro is powder coated. Neither of them is paint.

Orbit 01-13-2015 04:42 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Good stuff folks......the quest goes on. Shouldn't have sold the steel tama but I had to....I won't bore you with the details.
God, this is hard work!

opentune 01-13-2015 06:53 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oriollo (Post 1318719)
Actually, acro is anodized and blackro is powder coated. Neither of them is paint.

Yes sorry I generalized to avoid typing, but it's a thin coat. I too have had both snares, and no diff....to my ears. We obviously have some incredible ears on DW. I'd love to see how people do on blind tests of these things.

SgtThump 01-13-2015 08:43 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
I think I'd get just about any snare and experiment alot with different heads. Some heads can make ANY snare sound SUPER dry to my ears.

PS - Also, I don't get the "aluminum is dry" comment I always read. I hear tons of nice ring in this material.

Bull 01-13-2015 11:08 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
My Supras rang more than my Acros. I assumed it had something to do with the chrome. :)

Orbit 01-14-2015 02:17 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Oh and by the way, can anyone tell me how to post pictures up on here please. Thanks!

drumdevil9 01-14-2015 03:43 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Below the reply box is Additional Options where you can attach files. Or you can use a hosting site like Photobucket.

I have an Evans Genera HD on my Blackro and it sounds great.

Defender 01-14-2015 03:55 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mandrew (Post 1318649)
If you want drier, and I like drier, consider an Evans Genera, or Genera dry.

I'll +1 for the Genera Dry. (Not the HD Dry!!)

If you're looking for a dry sound, yet with a certain "deepness" to it, the Genera Dry is the way to go. Unfortunately (or fortunately as it may be) the Genera Dry will make every drum, no matter what material and what thickness and build, sound exactly the same. I assume it does this by removing all overtones and all "characteristics" of the snare from existence.

I loved the Genera Dry for about 2 weeks and then I realized my mistake. Anyway, just like any head, it has it's place. And if you're playing in your basement and you need to tone it down, it's a great head. I wouldn't use it live though, as it would just be too "dull".

Peace, Defender

braincramp 01-14-2015 04:49 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Aquarian triple threat 3 7mil plys. Will kill the overtones along with everything else in a 5 mile radius. All kidding aside I got one of these at a discount table at GC for like 5 bucks and actually was impressed. It has its purpose and does it very well.

john gerrard 01-14-2015 09:31 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
My all time favorite head on my supra has been the Evans EC Reverse dot. not too dry but with just enough overtones for depth. As a matter of fact I have used this on just about every snare that I have had. I have a stack of 14 inch snare heads and I always come back to this.

RIneuron 01-14-2015 11:18 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Defender (Post 1318948)
I'll +1 for the Genera Dry. (Not the HD Dry!!)

If you're looking for a dry sound, yet with a certain "deepness" to it, the Genera Dry is the way to go. Unfortunately (or fortunately as it may be) the Genera Dry will make every drum, no matter what material and what thickness and build, sound exactly the same. I assume it does this by removing all overtones and all "characteristics" of the snare from existence.

I loved the Genera Dry for about 2 weeks and then I realized my mistake. Anyway, just like any head, it has it's place. And if you're playing in your basement and you need to tone it down, it's a great head. I wouldn't use it live though, as it would just be too "dull".

Peace, Defender

I completely agree with this. The Genera Dry made my Supra sound great in a small practice space, with no ring but plenty of attack. It might well kill the drum live in a large space.

Orbit 01-15-2015 11:50 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Well I've just bought a Tama Starclassic NOB 14x5.5 snare with die cast hoops for 165, that's $250. And yes, I'm going to try it with a Genera Dry (NOT HD!) head! I feel I shall be very pleased!....for those infuriated by the use of dry heads, I shall also try out a straight single ply....like an ambassador just to see....or hear!

Drummerguy55 05-24-2015 04:14 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Okay, so I'm joining this conversation very late in the game because I just stumbled onto this site and saw how great the suggestions were. Here's my question, and I know it's a matter of taste and experimentation and all of that, but I just landed a mint condition Ludwig Blackrolite and I'm using it in an oldies band that I'm joining next month. We play mostly music from the 60's and 70's and most venues are outdoors on a large stage. A pro sound company does all of the work with mics, sound, lights, etc..all we do is show up, play, get our checks and go home. So my question is what head combination (top and bottom) would be more "true" to the music era we are playing?

My last experience playing on a Ludwig snare was back in high school. (circa 1975-78), so my experience with this drum is very limited and long ago.

I have a Yamaha Dave Weckl 5.5 X 14 with an Evans HD dry on top and it sings fairly well, but I'm always tempted to place the moon gels on it.

Let me know what you guys think. (about the Acrolite heads)

BertTheDrummer 05-24-2015 05:08 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drummerguy55 (Post 1354579)
We play mostly music from the 60's and 70's and most venues are outdoors on a large stage. So my question is what head combination (top and bottom) would be more "true" to the music era we are playing?

Honestly the most true match would be an old beat up Remo Ambassador with gaff tape all over it.

BGH 05-24-2015 07:55 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drummerguy55 (Post 1354579)
Okay, so I'm joining this conversation very late in the game because I just stumbled onto this site and saw how great the suggestions were. Here's my question, and I know it's a matter of taste and experimentation and all of that, but I just landed a mint condition Ludwig Blackrolite and I'm using it in an oldies band that I'm joining next month. We play mostly music from the 60's and 70's and most venues are outdoors on a large stage. A pro sound company does all of the work with mics, sound, lights, etc..all we do is show up, play, get our checks and go home. So my question is what head combination (top and bottom) would be more "true" to the music era we are playing?

My favorite combination for this genre is a Remo Coated Controlled Sound head with Reverse Dot and a piece of Moongel. This works well on just about any snare. It will give you a nice crisp sound with some overtone. It won't totally kill overtones like a tone ring or tape will. Another snare head I like is an Aquarian Texture Coated head, which is a bit darker than a Remo Ambassador.

Captain Bash 05-24-2015 10:46 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
To a large extent you are fighting the drums natural sonic characteristics by fitting it with dry heads. Aluminium drums are by nature ringy but the overtones are not as harsh as drums made with a steel shell. A reverse centre spot remo or a evans power centre might be the best middle ground.

RickP 05-24-2015 04:08 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
http://evansdrumheads.com/EvProductD...e-810b7c529fee

If you insist on a very controlled fat sounding snare with very little overtones then your best bet would be an Evans Hydraulic coated head. This head has a thin layer of oil between the plies and the ring is extremely reduced.

Personally I like the Evans Power Centre reverse dot for Acrolites. Playing on the centre dotted area give a fatter less resonant sound and if you want more ring you can play it off center. Reso an e is a good thing, especially when playing live.

Brian 05-25-2015 06:37 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
I use the Ludwig medium coated head pulled off from an old Supra I bought. Clear ambassador on bottom. I definitely like this batter head for the Acro, more than the powerstroke or coated ambassador. I (most of the time) don't use any muffling and it has just enough ring, but not overly so.

GruntersDad 05-25-2015 06:54 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KamaK (Post 1318570)
Here is an example I made a while ago to try to get a clear demonstration of the Acrolite's overtones. The drum really wants to sing, and I imagine that you would have to throw a lot of dampening at it, or tune it way up (as suggested above) to the point where it sounds like Ludwig's 4" Maple Piccolo offering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDL0vWFy-2I

If you're looking for the same Retro-budget-student-vibe as an Acrolite, and want to stay with Ludwig, look for a used Pioneer.

I'm certain that others will likely have much better suggestions for other manufacturers, as I'm pretty much a Ludwig-or-bust snare guy.

It's tough to get a true read on the head or snare when most of the hits are rim shots.

KamaK 05-25-2015 07:19 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 1354803)
It's tough to get a true read on the head or snare when most of the hits are rim shots.

Indeed. That clip was made before BillB fixed my left hand. It's always uncanny feeling to go back and watch videos made during one's formative period.

On a positive note, I sold my Acrolite and some extra toms last week on eBay so that I can afford a Gretsch Broadkaster Bass next month.

I did have time to make one last video demonstrating the Acro before I got rid of it. This time with proper technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW-4sZdM-CY

Duck Tape 05-25-2015 08:12 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Fit an ambassador and put a control ring on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COyE8UBP09M

/thread

BertTheDrummer 05-25-2015 08:19 PM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
What about one of Evan's dry heads. Either the Genera Dry or the HD Dry?

Brian 05-26-2015 01:30 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD (Post 1354803)
It's tough to get a true read on the head or snare when most of the hits are rim shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wugK5dfChdo

This is my blackrolite. I really do like the stock Ludwig head.

Red Menace 05-26-2015 05:04 AM

Re: Dry heads for ludwig blackrolite acrolite snare?
 
I'm really not following those of you that are calling the Supra/Acro a ringy snare. I have an Acro and a LM402 Supra, they have a few overtones like any snare would but it is a very dry material.

If you like a nice, dry snare and you can score an Acro for cheap (assuming you weren't born with the misfortune of living in Australia) then go f'rit. Get yourself a coated 2 ply head and add a piece of moongel. Too dry? Cut the piece in half. Blammity!

I like a coated single ply on my snares but the weird overtones on this new 402, probably from the old head, had me using the tone control. Never really liked those things before but I am glad to have it on my Supra.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com