DW reso head question

[geeza]

My Pearl Masters Custom bass drum sounds incredible. My DW bass drum , not so good. When i bought my used DW's the bass drum did'nt have a DW head on the front so i ordered one from Interstate music. No matter how i tune it , it just sounds flat. I noticed the head is really thin unlike the Pearl powerstroke 3 on the Masters bass drum. Are the DW heads from the factory also really thin or is the head i ordered not the same as the ones that come from the factory. I'm thinking about just putting a powerstroke 3 on each side of the DW just like my Pearl. Any sugestions? By the way i'm using an EQ3 on the batter side of the DW and the DW reso head has 2, 4" Holz positioned at 8 and 4. Standard DW pillow and nothing in the Pearl.

 

[Larry]

I'd say duplicate the head combo/muffling that you use on the Pearls, with the DW's. That really should do it. Also 2 - 4" holes is like having no front head on the drum.

 

[druid]

I would agree especially if you stock DW reso head is like mine with the vent holes around the perimeter.....those are there to let air escape while maintaining resonance....if you add full blown port holes as well....there is nothing there to resonate.

 

[geeza]

I would agree especially if you stock DW reso head is like mine with the vent holes around the perimeter.....those are there to let air escape while maintaining resonance....if you add full blown port holes as well....there is nothing there to resonate.

What about miking the kick then live because i don't have internal miking. Anytime i've had a non ported head , the sound man throws a fit.

 

[caddywumpus]

What about miking the kick then live because i don't have internal miking. Anytime i've had a non ported head , the sound man throws a fit.

Sounds like you need different sound men.

Really, if they don't know how to mic a non-ported head, then you need to show them how YOU like it miked! There are dozens of ways with vastly different results--which do you like? How do you want it to sound?

Also, just one port hole would probably do fine. That's what mine has. Sure, it's a little dry/flat, but miked inside in a live situation, you can't tell much of a difference anyways.

 

[drumtechdad]

"Get a better sound man" is a nice snappy answer but doesn't solve the problem. And the problem often is the sound guy, not your head.

Some may be educable as to miking an unported head, but I seldom have time to explain all the possibilities to a sound guy, not to mention trying them out.

Meanwhile, it makes no sense to piss off the guy who is responsible for how you sound. All sound guys have a "suck" knob; you piss them off and they'll turn it up to 11 for you.

Over the years I've had sound guys who didn't blink at an unported head and others I had to head off walking to the kit with a box cutter in hand.

So: the solution is easy. Keep both a ported and unported head and use whatever the sound guy can deal with.

If you prefer the sound of a bass drum with no port, as I do, ask him if that's a problem. (If you can do that a day or so before the gig, that's even better.) If he freaks, tell him you have a ported head and will be using it.

For minimal effect on the tone and resonance, use a 4" port, off-center about 3-4" in from the edge of the head at around 4 o'clock or 8 o'clock. Use a Holz or other reinforcing ring so the head doesn't get ripped when the mic is taken out.

 

[druid]

I agree....get a better sound guy. And just remember if he cannot get a good sound outside of a bass drum without "too much resonance"...no way could he control an internal mic which would pick up even more sound.

Too many guys take the easy way ou tand expect you to cut a hole in your head and then stuff it with pillows or something.

 

[drumtechdad]

I agree....get a better sound guy. And just remember if he cannot get a good sound outside of a bass drum without "too much resonance"...no way could he control an internal mic which would pick up even more sound.

Too many guys take the easy way ou tand expect you to cut a hole in your head and then stuff it with pillows or something.

Good luck with that in the real world.

 

[druid]

I've actually had little problems with this stance in the "real world"....I think it's really a matter of how you approach it. Naturally I don't take an attitude about it or anything but really for example how many jazz players do you seeing cutting holes in their bass drum? Not that many really. I think if you work WITH the sound guy rather than AGAINST you can come to a compromise. My remark about finding another sound guy was a joke. One technique that worked well in some situations was to mic the batter head rather than the front head...it works. My only point is let's face it having an internal May system in a DW bass drum won't be any better for a sound guy who gets *rattled* by a full front head...it would be even worse. The soundman would have even MORE frequencies to deal with. And after much experience I do feel that alot of sound guys just assume a bass drum is supposed to sound flat and thuddy...well...they aren't. One other thing to think abou tthe DW pillow which comes standard on their bass drums is MORE than sufficient to offer a wide variety of dampening or open tone from a bass drum...you can always adjust those things to get whatever sound you want. Just cutting a hole because visually it upsets you to see a full front head( before you even hear the thing) is absurd. It's lazy. And for those who really just can't deal...I do have a factory ported Evans head as well.

Chalk it up to my philosophy that drums were not meant to be taped and cut and sound like cardboard...I guess.

 

[druid]

One other factor I think that should be considered is the size of the bass drum. Now I see some guys on here playing 26" 28" bass drums etc.....I really think controlling a 20" or a 22" bass drum should not be that difficult and cutting holes in a 20" drastically kills the tone and volume and overall prescence of the drum....standing in front of a kit like that with a 4" hole in a 20" head you start to really notice it. Just imagine "porting" a bottom head of a small tom and it's affect...or try to imagine telling any other musician to do something to 'remove their tone'....and see how well THAT goes over. Good Luck.

Drummers need to set the sound guys straight;-)

 

[geeza]

Thanks to all for their input. I do like the idea of bringing both a ported and non ported head. And as far as my double 4" ported head ( which i thought looked cool ) , i'm putting on a new head with only one 4" hole. At the end of the day, if i can make it without upsetting the sound guy and have people tell me my drums sound like god , then it's a good day. The better my drums and my mix sound , the more confident i am all around.

 

[drumtechdad]

I've actually had little problems with this stance in the "real world"....I think it's really a matter of how you approach it. Naturally I don't take an attitude about it or anything but really for example how many jazz players do you seeing cutting holes in their bass drum? Not that many really. I think if you work WITH the sound guy rather than AGAINST you can come to a compromise. My remark about finding another sound guy was a joke. One technique that worked well in some situations was to mic the batter head rather than the front head...it works.

Since we both know how to mic a non-ported reso, that's not really the issue. One can also mic both reso and batter, flipping the phase of one of the mics. One also gets quite a different sound depending on where on the head the mic is pointed.

My only point is let's face it having an internal May system in a DW bass drum won't be any better for a sound guy who gets *rattled* by a full front head...it would be even worse. The soundman would have even MORE frequencies to deal with.

That doesn't really follow, does it?

And after much experience I do feel that alot of sound guys just assume a bass drum is supposed to sound flat and thuddy...well...they aren't.

I agree entirely, but of course that isn't the point.

One other thing to think abou tthe DW pillow which comes standard on their bass drums is MORE than sufficient to offer a wide variety of dampening or open tone from a bass drum...you can always adjust those things to get whatever sound you want.

Yes.

Just cutting a hole because visually it upsets you to see a full front head( before you even hear the thing) is absurd. It's lazy.

Yes. And your point is?

Chalk it up to my philosophy that drums were not meant to be taped and cut and sound like cardboard...I guess.

Mine, too. In the real world, where sound guys range all the way from brilliant and inflappable to complete idiots--and where the latter outnumber the former about 100 to 1--my previous advice to the OP was to be prepared, not to let his "philosophy" get in the way of getting good sound on a gig, and being cooperative with a sound guy who doesn't like miking unported heads.

After over 40 years in the business and encountering all manner of sound guys, I stand by that advice.

 

[druid]

I think I also said I have an evans ported for just such an occasion;-)

my point on May mic system was this. If someone is afraid to use a single mic on the resonant head they will be no doubt completely and utterly terrified by a miking system inside the drum with no ports.That is all.

I think 70's and micing techniques were one of the worst things to happen to drums. Thankfully many have long stopped recording dead drums and it would be nice if sound guys caught up with that but I agree many sound guys simply know very little about their supposed profession. And sometimes get paid more than the band.But that is a whole OTHER story.

 

[TheArchitect]

I think I also said I have an evans ported for just such an occasion;-)

my point on May mic system was this. If someone is afraid to use a single mic on the resonant head they will be no doubt completely and utterly terrified by a miking system inside the drum with no ports.That is all.
.

If the mic positioned half way decent it will be very similar to the mic through a port. The null of the mic will be pointed at the reso head limiting by a good bit how much of the sound it will hear.