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-   -   Can memory locks be sexy? (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117262)

keep it simple 06-02-2014 03:57 PM

Can memory locks be sexy?
 
6 Attachment(s)
We think so :)

We spent so much time designing a memory lock to work seamlessly with our Origin & In-Tense aluminium shell hardware, it just had to look sexy! Possibly the prettiest (& almost certainly the most expensive) memory lock ever (IMHO).

JimFiore 06-02-2014 04:10 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
A device might be cleverly designed or highly ergonomic or aesthetically pleasing. I resist calling such things "sexy", though. It just doesn't seem to apply. It's like when someone says "That guitar looks so gay". Really? How about "I'll bet that doorknob is a great conversationalist"?

Whatever, those locks do seem to be pretty cleverly designed.

keep it simple 06-02-2014 04:18 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimFiore (Post 1265085)
A device might be cleverly designed or highly ergonomic or aesthetically pleasing. I resist calling such things "sexy", though. It just doesn't seem to apply. It's like when someone says "That guitar looks so gay". Really? How about "I'll bet that doorknob is a great conversationalist"?

Whatever, those locks do seem to be pretty cleverly designed.

Point taken Jim, but they are spooning :)


The eagle eyed amongst you may also notice they're fitted to a 2014 Origin beech & ovangkol kit I'm currently constructing :)

BillRayDrums 06-02-2014 06:08 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Yeah, they're sexy in that I can set up my stuff in record time and be down to the coffee place before my gig, making googly eyes at the cute barista... ;)

eclipseownzu 06-02-2014 06:36 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
I only wish all drum makers cared as much about such things as you do. I had to buy some aftermarket memory locks for my floor tom legs on my Tama. They are clunky and look like crap. I think the big boys could definitely take a page out of your book on this one.

The real question is: can memory locks warp time and space?

Diet Kirk 06-02-2014 06:57 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
While it does indeed look great, have you thought of a wing-nut version for speed?

I'm assuming you have to do a four nut tightening there with a drum key? I know I'm being pedantic, but i much prefer speed over aesthetics!

opentune 06-02-2014 07:31 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Andy those look nice but IMO would be a pain in the arse during setup and break-down time. I'm sure you thought of that. Yes everybody carries a drum key, but yet another time where it would have to be taken out and used - 4 times per side.

Wings are sexy - so wing nuts can be too.

DrumEatDrum 06-02-2014 08:02 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Sweet looking.

But wow, those must be some expensive machining costs.

WaitForItDrummer 06-02-2014 08:33 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Very nice! If Jaguars had memory locks, it would be these... :)

Tommy_D 06-02-2014 09:04 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
It seems a bit "tacked on" instead of "sexy". Yes, you have all the little ribs aligning and it looks like it was designed to all be fluid in its design with the bass leg mount, but it could be better integrated and more seamless in its design, IMO. I would personally love to see no memory lock, yet still have a memory lock. Something hidden would be "sexier", IMO. Yes memory locks need to be accessed, but they are a bit "set it and forget it" by their nature. A design that incorporates access to the memory lock while keeping it hidden from sight would be truly "sexy". If not hidden, something that actually cuts in to or fills a gap in the mount, like a Tetris piece, to complete the mounts design would be cool.

keep it simple 06-02-2014 10:41 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Thanks for chiming in guys.

Answers to points raised:

Yes, the memory lock is an afterthought, & I agree, a fully integrated mechanism would be very cool. Perhaps in the next design phase, but right now, it's what we've got.

Wing nuts - we deliberately avoided those for a number of reasons. Remember, this is aluminium we're working with. The entire focus of our drum designs is sound, so low mass to us is number 1, 2, & 3. Aluminium wing nuts aren't viable mechanically, so a resort to steel or stainless steel would add considerably to bracket mass, probably up by 50%. Additionally, these brackets are very low profile. So low profile in fact, that our bass drums readily fit one size down in cases. Wing nuts would negate that benefit too. When you haul a 22" Guru bass drum, you're hauling a 20" case, & it's typically the weight of an average 16" floor tom (depending on wood species)

Setup time - I set these up all the time. The bracket top plate is spring loaded so opens up immediately. I only ever operate the top two screws, not four. We were quite rightly brought to task over not having memory locks, as that increased setup time considerably. Now, with memory locks, it takes me 10 seconds/side longer to set up these spurs compared to wing nut flip out designs. That's 20 seconds at a gig. Sorry, for a drum company that's utterly focussed on sound quality, 20 seconds isn't even on our radar compared to the sonic & hauling practicality benefits of the design. Don't get me wrong, we want our drums to be completely functional pieces of gigging gear, & they are, but we never compromise on sound for a minute degree of convenience.

Tommy_D 06-02-2014 11:27 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
I suppose the question is, can a memory lock have a negative impact on a drum's sound? Being as small as they are, and how much other mass is around them, does this little guy really make a difference. Yes weight is a concern, especially when you take weight loss as serious as you do (though it could get even more extreme with titanium bolts, but I digress) but is the mass of a memory lock really going to make a difference?

I personally like the "all drum key" hardware. Wing bolts are a bit clunky looking and always catch on bags, on your clothes, shoelaces, etc. The inset drum key bolts are a nice detail.

keep it simple 06-02-2014 11:58 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy_D (Post 1265205)
I suppose the question is, can a memory lock have a negative impact on a drum's sound? Being as small as they are, and how much other mass is around them, does this little guy really make a difference. Yes weight is a concern, especially when you take weight loss as serious as you do (though it could get even more extreme with titanium bolts, but I digress) but is the mass of a memory lock really going to make a difference?

I personally like the "all drum key" hardware. Wing bolts are a bit clunky looking and always catch on bags, on your clothes, shoelaces, etc. The inset drum key bolts are a nice detail.

Glad we agree on wing nuts :)

The weight of the memory lock isn't significant in our design, but if we made it out of steel or similar, it would weigh as much as the whole bracket assembly. To give you some idea of our mass reduction depth, 32 of our In-Tense bass drum lugs weigh the same as one classic Gretsch lug!

Michaelocalypse 06-03-2014 01:57 AM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
I'll call them sexy, along with the rest of that big, sexy drum.

bobdadruma 06-03-2014 04:22 AM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
That is an awesomely sexy Mem Lock!!
I really like the design a lot.

Beam Me Up Scotty 06-03-2014 04:57 AM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
ANDY WHY ARE YOUR DRUMS SO DAMN PERFECT.

Alright, now that we've gotten that outburst outta the way, I'll say that I do indeed think they look sexy. Very sleek, very unassuming. And yet they're aesthetically pleasing when noticed. Well done, once more.

porter 06-03-2014 06:36 AM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy_D (Post 1265166)
It seems a bit "tacked on" instead of "sexy". Yes, you have all the little ribs aligning and it looks like it was designed to all be fluid in its design with the bass leg mount, but it could be better integrated and more seamless in its design, IMO. I would personally love to see no memory lock, yet still have a memory lock. Something hidden would be "sexier", IMO. Yes memory locks need to be accessed, but they are a bit "set it and forget it" by their nature. A design that incorporates access to the memory lock while keeping it hidden from sight would be truly "sexy". If not hidden, something that actually cuts in to or fills a gap in the mount, like a Tetris piece, to complete the mounts design would be cool.

I sort of agree- the Guru brackets aren't my cup of tea, especially with the angled ribbing and general shape. Function over form, though, I suppose. Maybe Andy should engineer an aluminum version of the Tama STAR brackets ;) ;) ;)

Diet Kirk 06-03-2014 10:58 AM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 1265192)
Thanks for chiming in guys.

Answers to points raised:

Yes, the memory lock is an afterthought, & I agree, a fully integrated mechanism would be very cool. Perhaps in the next design phase, but right now, it's what we've got.

Wing nuts - we deliberately avoided those for a number of reasons. Remember, this is aluminium we're working with. The entire focus of our drum designs is sound, so low mass to us is number 1, 2, & 3. Aluminium wing nuts aren't viable mechanically, so a resort to steel or stainless steel would add considerably to bracket mass, probably up by 50%. Additionally, these brackets are very low profile. So low profile in fact, that our bass drums readily fit one size down in cases. Wing nuts would negate that benefit too. When you haul a 22" Guru bass drum, you're hauling a 20" case, & it's typically the weight of an average 16" floor tom (depending on wood species)

Setup time - I set these up all the time. The bracket top plate is spring loaded so opens up immediately. I only ever operate the top two screws, not four. We were quite rightly brought to task over not having memory locks, as that increased setup time considerably. Now, with memory locks, it takes me 10 seconds/side longer to set up these spurs compared to wing nut flip out designs. That's 20 seconds at a gig. Sorry, for a drum company that's utterly focussed on sound quality, 20 seconds isn't even on our radar compared to the sonic & hauling practicality benefits of the design. Don't get me wrong, we want our drums to be completely functional pieces of gigging gear, & they are, but we never compromise on sound for a minute degree of convenience.

Great reply. Proof (as if I really needed it) that every detail on your kits is for the benefit of the sound and in this case even the aesthetics were a secondary consideration, despite still retaining some sexiness.

I am genuinly impressed that every design choice you made is instantly backed up by reasoning and not marketing waffle (I have a masters in Marketing and all it did was make me cynical!).

Out of interest do you have any literature on your website detailing the 'collars' on those drums that all the hardware attaches to? It seems like such an obvious idea once you see it, but then all the best ideas tend to!

:)

keep it simple 06-03-2014 11:13 AM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Diet Kirk (Post 1265362)
Great reply. Proof (as if I really needed it) that every detail on your kits is for the benefit of the sound and in this case even the aesthetics were a secondary consideration, despite still retaining some sexiness.

I am genuinly impressed that every design choice you made is instantly backed up by reasoning and not marketing waffle (I have a masters in Marketing and all it did was make me cynical!).

Out of interest do you have any literature on your website detailing the 'collars' on those drums that all the hardware attaches to? It seems like such an obvious idea once you see it, but then all the best ideas tend to!

:)

Thank you :) I must admit, we don't do "marketing" very well. We say it as we find it, provide a rationale for the design decision/specification, then leave it up to the interested party to work out if it has value to them or not.

As for the Origin series external rering design & other Origin details, I'm waiting until next week to populate the website on this. This is the brand new 2014 Origin design, & we're launching it this coming weekend, so it's fresh out. TBH, I'm so busy building up to the show, I don't have time this week. Additionally, the weather forecast isn't great, & I like to take outdoor shots so you can see detail in the pictures. That said, if you want to know anything, just ask :) There's plenty of video footage of the 2012 Origin series, & they carry the same sonic traits.

Skulmoski 06-03-2014 06:13 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Some of the nicest ones I have seen; congratulations.

However, I wish my USA Customs came without memory locks. I just might be in the minority of drummers who just don't get it.

But yours do look very nice.

GJS

eric_B 06-03-2014 06:53 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Hi Andy,

The bass drum spurs look great, another detail which has been giving serious thought. And (R&D) costs.
I figure the memory locks would be aimed primarily at having the same angle to the bass drum and less how much the arm retracts into the bracket?

Another detail which caught my attention looking at pic #5: the bass drum appears to have outer rings on the batter and resonant side (for strength?) and the bass drum lugs seem attached to those instead of mounting them sideways into the shell as usual. What's the thought behind that?

keep it simple 06-03-2014 10:13 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skulmoski (Post 1265446)
However, I wish my USA Customs came without memory locks. I just might be in the minority of drummers who just don't get it.

But yours do look very nice.

GJS

I'm intrigued as to why you think that. Aesthetics?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric_B (Post 1265456)
Hi Andy,

The bass drum spurs look great, another detail which has been giving serious thought. And (R&D) costs.
I figure the memory locks would be aimed primarily at having the same angle to the bass drum and less how much the arm retracts into the bracket?

Another detail which caught my attention looking at pic #5: the bass drum appears to have outer rings on the batter and resonant side (for strength?) and the bass drum lugs seem attached to those instead of mounting them sideways into the shell as usual. What's the thought behind that?

The memory lock performs both functions of course, but primarily, it's purpose in life is to retain rotational position. You can either tuck our spurs into the side of the drum (note rubber O ring around spur end assembly to protect the shell), or you can remove them.

As for the external rering design, that's our Origin series drums. Have you lived in a cave for the last three years? :) :) :)

Nothing to do with strength. The shells are completely undrilled. That has strong sonic benefits in terms of overtones & fundamental balance. Even the spur brackets, floor tom legs, etc are mounted away from the primary resonant portion of the shell. There's multiple videos of these drums available, & a new video to be shot next month featuring the 2014 Origin series drums :)

Here's a couple of shots of the inside & outside of an Origin series tom :)

vxla 06-03-2014 11:28 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Looks good. I also like these:

http://www.dwdrums.com/images/hardwa...intmemlock.gif

johnnylaw 06-05-2014 07:04 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Didn't Elvis Costello say that "writing about music is like dancing about architecture".

I mean, who hasn't done that, right?

I think they're elegant to say the least, and I'll even give you "sexy". I can see where the four-bolt thing could be slow, even for those drummers who CAN make the gig on time.

There is a sexy wing nut in your future.

PS: I am not him.

HMNY 06-05-2014 10:16 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Yes!

That looks great, and functions well for such a simple design. (for us Brits it's a Ronseal design)

I love the nod to the streamliner/art deco style.

Very nice

Nancy_C 06-06-2014 04:01 AM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
I think it's sexy as hell!

... Oh, god, I need a date.

JustJames 06-06-2014 04:18 AM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Memory locks are very sexy for amnesiac practitioners of BDSM.

Malleus Man 06-06-2014 11:40 AM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Great design IMHO. I've 'played' around with these myself. Min mass, yet over 2xD of thread length for the bolts. Extremely efficient clamping forces due to tolerance and surface finish on both 1/2's of the locks internal form.

Setup / ripdown time is in no way hindered by the tuning key bolts.
Once the mem lock is in place, it obviously stays on the leg - no wing nuts required? surely?
As for the bracket itself -
I simply 'un-nip' the top 2 bracket bolts 1/2 a turn each, everything springs open - done.
I'm a firm believer of function over aesthetics, I take alot of flak for it too!
....but can you imagine 2 wing nuts sticking out of that bracket?!....yuk.
The wings pointing different directions would set off my OCD and i might actually die of heart failure.
Not giving anybody a bashing here, just an opinion :-)

On a separate note -
Something i believe the Guru boys don't emphasize enough, is the need of a 'gentle touch' when using Guru parts.
You simply do not need to crank anything to hold it fast.
(you can do, if you want to, but you simply will not gain anything)
2 drum sticks either side of a wing nut?! We've all done it, but it doesn't apply to Guru elements.
The tolerancing Andy specs out insures surface area contact is at max.
I've had first hand experience testing/playing with these parts.
It almost seems like a magic trick to me -
The smallest amount of tension (a nip) and everything locks up to an incredible degree.
You could swing off those bloody parts - in physics terms it doesn't seem to add up.
So little tension/force in exchange for so much grip.

Back on topic -
I like the fact that the mem lock itself doesn't have a small protruding 'leg' that the drops into and oversize slot like most mem locks. The entire outside form of the lock (or one side of it) is acting as the resistance point when pushed into the bracket.

Love that.

DO WANT!

10" 12" 14" 16" 20" - Must order / Must have / Must play. (Just don't tell the wife)

Mark

Mad About Drums 06-06-2014 12:50 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keep it simple (Post 1265079)
We think so :)

I think so too :)

larryace 06-06-2014 04:37 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
I'm not a big fan of the bass drum/floor tom brackets due to the 4 screws either. The mem locks on the bass drum spurs definitely helps cut down set up time, so I'm happy about that. But adjusting the FT legs takes too long IMO. With mem locks on the FT legs....that would cut out some time. I felt that one side could hook into the bracket, eliminating 2 screws, and if I were designing it, I would use only one centered screw to tighten the leg down. For being weight conscious, I feel the brackets have more metal than they need, a little over designed.

Set up time is a really important consideration for me. I don't gig my Gurus but if I did, I'd prefer a different design on the brackets so there was only one screw to deal with.

I would design something that didn't need any tool at all except my hand. Either a wing nut or a latch that is used to close one of those big footlocker trunks.

David Floegel 06-06-2014 05:02 PM

Re: Can memory locks be sexy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larryace (Post 1266416)
I'm not a big fan of the bass drum/floor tom brackets due to the 4 screws either. The mem locks on the bass drum spurs definitely helps cut down set up time, so I'm happy about that. But adjusting the FT legs takes too long IMO. With mem locks on the FT legs....that would cut out some time. I felt that one side could hook into the bracket, eliminating 2 screws, and if I were designing it, I would use only one centered screw to tighten the leg down. For being weight conscious, I feel the brackets have more metal than they need, a little over designed.

Set up time is a really important consideration for me. I don't gig my Gurus but if I did, I'd prefer a different design on the brackets so there was only one screw to deal with.

I would design something that didn't need any tool at all except my hand. Either a wing nut or a latch that is used to close one of those big footlocker trunks.

compared to the really light looking lugs, these spurs look indeed a bit heavy. i don't know if they actually are?
Larry's argument regarding the setup time is valid I think...
Loosening 4 screws to re-adjust the leg is pretty annoying, especially if you setup your drums the first time...


BUT yes, these memory locks look amazing :)


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