YouTube covers - matched 3rd party content

Anon La Ply

Renegade
Does anyone know what the ultimate upshot of this is? I got a matched third party content notice on a drum cover (yes yes, I know :)
___________________________________
Your video may include a song owned by a third party. For example, this might be a song playing in the background or someone performing a song.

To hear the matched song please play the video on the right. The video will play from the point where the matched content was identified.
Your video is available and playable.
Here are the details:

"RAZOR BOY", musical composition administered by: 0:24
UMPG Publishing

To learn more about how claims impact your videos click here.
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Underneath that text is two buttons - "Acknowledge" and "Dispute". What are the ramifications?

Do you click "Acknowledge" just to say "yes, I used the content" even if the recording standard and added drum track makes it no threat to sales or reputation of the song?

Do you only click "Dispute" if it is a different song?

There are all kinds of threats about suspending accounts but without clarity or transparency, which has left me confused.

I added a fair use notice for educational purposes (which is what it's about) - does that help? Any light shed on this is appreciated.

Kind of bummed out that it took them 24 seconds to recognise the song ... back to the shed ...
 

camcoman

Senior Member
I don't know ultimately. I got third party matching as well for three songs on two videos I had uploaded performed by the community band I'm in. There were ten or twelve pieces in total on the two videos and two of those were five or six song medleys. All the pieces performed are copyrighted. I thought it odd it did not find more, maybe the rest were too obscure.

Sound Beach Community Band 8 25 13 Pt 2

Your video may include a song owned by a third party. For example, this might be a song playing in the background or someone performing a song.

To hear the matched song please play the video on the right. The video will play from the point where the matched content was identified.

Your video is available and playable.

Here are the details:

  • "An Old Fashioned Sing-Along Medley", musical composition administered by: 7:47 AdShare MG for a Third Party
  • "Salute the Duke", musical composition administered by: 1:13 One or more music publishing rights collecting societies
I neither acknowledged or disputed. I'm still in good standing for Community guidelines, Copyright strikes and Content ID claims.

I chose fair use as well assuming educational / non profit.

Well that was a whole lot of typing & cutting & pasting to say I don't have a clue & I hope that neither one of us gets thrown in the big house.
 

dmacc

Platinum Member
I don't know but I'm interested in the results.

One of my transcription solos I did (Steve Gadd) got a copywrite violation and was deleted from YT. Additionally my account is flagged as something to the effect of being monitored for 2 more at which time it's going to be removed. I'm also restricted in what I can upload now.

This was no copywrite violation. It contained only me playing and interpreting a transcribed solo that was published in MD back in the 1980's.

Though they were wrong, the process that I had to go through to get it lifted was impossible so I gave in and just let it be.

Funny they only flagged that transcribed solo and no others.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
Geez Louise - is what we're doing wrong on some level I don't know about?

Are band covers, drum covers and drum transcriptions posted on YouTube inherently unethical? Are we missing something important? I wish Paul Quin was around these days.

I also have our band's cover of Sunny Afternoon flagged. Meanwhile no problem with the covers of Little Wing, Summertime, Sunshine of Your Love, I Put a Spell On You, The Thrill is Gone, Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood, Perfect Day, Broadway, It's a Man's Man's World, Catch the Wind, Love for Sale, First Time Ever I Saw Your Face, Cold Turkey or LTIA Pt 1.

I kept getting a third party notice on a cover of Feeling Good (not public any more) until I renamed it to Senzing Eggshellent and cut off the ending. Maybe cutting off the ending helps??

The game is a minefield - and no one knows where the mines are, what sets them off or what happens if they are set off. It seems that appealing automated decisions - or even asking for rationales or transparency - is like conversing with a fridge.
 

eclipseownzu

Gold Member
I don't think posting them in youtube is unethical, unless you are getting paid from adverts. That is where things start to get a little, well, sticky for me. When a cover band plays somebody is paying BMI or ASCAP for the rights to play those songs, usually the bar owner. When you post that performance on youtube and people watch it, the publishing groups are taken out of the mix and cannot account for the extra views. This is where the third party content comes in. It is a way for the publishing companies to get their cut of the cash in the event that your video blows up and get a million views.

For the most part you can just acknowledge it and say, yes, this is third party content. It will make no difference to you and will not affect your video in any way.
 

dmacc

Platinum Member
Geez Louise - is what we're doing wrong on some level I don't know about?

Are band covers, drum covers and drum transcriptions posted on YouTube inherently unethical? Are we missing something important? I wish Paul Quin was around these days.

I also have our band's cover of Sunny Afternoon flagged. Meanwhile no problem with the covers of Little Wing, Summertime, Sunshine of Your Love, I Put a Spell On You, The Thrill is Gone, Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood, Perfect Day, Broadway, It's a Man's Man's World, Catch the Wind, Love for Sale, First Time Ever I Saw Your Face, Cold Turkey or LTIA Pt 1.

I kept getting a third party notice on a cover of Feeling Good (not public any more) until I renamed it to Senzing Eggshellent and cut off the ending. Maybe cutting off the ending helps??

The game is a minefield - and no one knows where the mines are, what sets them off or what happens if they are set off. It seems that appealing automated decisions - or even asking for rationales or transparency - is like conversing with a fridge.
You know, I think the title may have something to do with it for real. At least it's consistent with my thoughts. My Gadd solo did not have the word "transcription" in the title but it did in the detail. It was the only one flagged. Worst part is they deleted the video on me and I don't have my version saved anyplace offline. I do plan on re-recording it sometime and re-uploading with a diff. title. I'll be curious to see if that one has the same issue.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
I put some photography on line, still shots, and had a Beach Boys song playing as the slide show ran, and You Tube sound was turned off. This was over 2 years ago. However at work the other day I was telling some cohorts about my hobbies and went to show them the photos and the sound had been turned back on again. Not sure what to make some day. Maybe it was the description used, the wording, not enough mention, etc etc etc .
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
This is where the third party content comes in. It is a way for the publishing companies to get their cut of the cash in the event that your video blows up and get a million views.

For the most part you can just acknowledge it and say, yes, this is third party content. It will make no difference to you and will not affect your video in any way.
Ah, that makes sense. For sure, if my any of my clips get a million views I would have no problem with paying the song owner their due. I only have about 999,993 views to go and if they want 100% of my earnings at this stage, no drama. Heck, I'll give 'em 200%!


Worst part is they deleted the video on me and I don't have my version saved anyplace offline. I do plan on re-recording it sometime and re-uploading with a diff. title. I'll be curious to see if that one has the same issue.
Ouch! On the plus side, you might be able to play it better again next time :)

Agree it's best to say "transcription" or "cover" to make it easier for people searching.

Not sure what to make some day. Maybe it was the description used, the wording, not enough mention, etc etc etc .
They have gear that can detect the musical patterns too - I did a photo tribute on YT to my deceased sister for my inlaws and I used Moanin as a soundtrack. I can't remember exactly what happened but I had to take it down pretty quick smart or risk ... something
 

MPortnoy

Senior Member
I don't think posting them in youtube is unethical, unless you are getting paid from adverts.
For the most part you can just acknowledge it and say, yes, this is third party content. It will make no difference to you and will not affect your video in any way.
Eclipse totally nailed it.

There's nothing unethical as long as you don't make money from it. I have lots of drum covers in youtube and all of them either matched third party content or are blocked in some countries and since I surpassed certain amount of views in youtube, now I'm allowed to make money out of adverts but ONLY if my videos were original, but since they are not, I got my account set to not make money out of it.

But in reality your video doesn't get affected in any way and people can still see it.
 

porter

Platinum Member
MPortnoy is right. I've had plenty of videos that get matched but they don't get taken down. Most of the rights owners wised up that getting all of their material removed was not a positive message to the community, so the majority of videos now simply get matched and left up.

Unless you aren't using the song they say you are- there's not really any reason to dispute.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
Thanks for the answers, all. Okay, so it seems that normal drum cover people don't have to worry about the legalistic labels or threats in the info Google provided. I thought I was on the edge of being deemed an undesirable, banished and forever frozen out for the crime of posting a Razor Boy drum cover as a little tightening exercise to check and avoid flamming.

As far as multinats go, I prefer Google to just about any of 'em, but you can tell the company stems from geeks - the company's communication skills are almost a null ... "just trust us because we're smart and we aim to do no evil".

As far as I can tell they only reply to correspondence if they perceive a threat of a lawsuit of public relations issue. Otherwise their attitude seems to be RTFM (or research the 8,000 manuals online and work out which 7,900 are wrong).
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
If Youtube posters were trying to make money off of the postings I could understand. ButI am certainly not trying to sell anything.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
If Youtube posters were trying to make money off of the postings I could understand. But I am certainly not trying to sell anything.
Yep.

From a publishing company's standpoint, for the most part I expect they would benefit from added exposure. However, terrible-sounding covers do have a small potential to spoil the original in people's minds, eg. Bananarama's version of Venus. The average properly titled drum cover would only help get the band and track out there.
 

eamesuser

Silver Member
The thing that kills me is that you can own a song,melody,or lyrics,and can get sued or have a you tube account suspended for using it,but you can't own a drum beat,and can't get royalties for it,but you can get threatened for playing one?
 

toddmc

Gold Member
The game is a minefield - and no one knows where the mines are, what sets them off or what happens if they are set off. It seems that appealing automated decisions - or even asking for rationales or transparency - is like conversing with a fridge.
Absolutely correct- some cover vids get flagged while others fly under the radar (seems completely random to me).
Grea, out of curiosity are you a "Youtube partner"? If so, maybe they take issue with covers only if you have "monetised" your videos??
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
The thing that kills me is that you can own a song,melody,or lyrics,and can get sued or have a you tube account suspended for using it,but you can't own a drum beat,and can't get royalties for it,but you can get threatened for playing one?
To be fair, there is no discrimination of instrument when playing a cover - just the fact that you're playing a cover.

Grea, out of curiosity are you a "Youtube partner"? If so, maybe they take issue with covers only if you have "monetised" your videos??
I've had a few "offers" from YT but always declined given that "monetising" videos since I tend to get views in the tens rather than in millions. Seems that YT's sound identification doodad notices the similarity and flags automatically ... ?
 
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