YOUR ROLL SPEED

Lt.black

Junior Member
I just want to know what is your maximum speed when you playing single stroke roll, double stroke roll and single paradiddles as 16th notes.
 

Arky

Platinum Member
1) No need to use CAPITAL LETTERS in thread titles. Due to netiquette this is considered shouting.

2) I'll make a starter (everything 16th notes).

** Single stroke roll: max. 280 bpm (just a few seconds, matched grip. With trad grip it's a tad slower)

** Double stroke roll: Haven't really checked that for max speed but remember/think I can do 260+.
(Just tried with a click to find out... 260 is ok, with every grip, matched vs. trad, and right vs. left hand lead. Tried 270 - ok for a few seconds. Max speed is with rebound use/but not completely relying on rebound. With 'proper' double strokes = each note played with an individual stroke, my max speed is around 220 bpm, but not for too long.)

** Paradiddle (my favourite rudiment): 220 bpm (clean), 250 bpm (so-so), up to 270 at times (not enough control, just dribbling).
(220/clean was from memory, some time back. Just checked again... Clean has upped to 230-240, both matched and trad grip. But haven't played paradiddles in that speed range recently, have been working on control.)

I've done a video with paradiddles @ 240, 250 bpm (because people on Drummerworld asked me to do so - I'm much cleaner now than in that video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lLnneuJUM8&feature=channel&list=UL

------

You know, whenever people create threads like this usually forum members expect the original posters to share their chops/bpm values, too. So you're invited to do so, haha.

(In case Bill Bachman or some other out of this world drummers should chime in... fasten your safety belt and expect some terrific bpm values.)

Anybody remembers my thread on speed related stuff? Haha. Here it is, let's revive it:
Speeeeed!!
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90310&highlight=speeeeed
 
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Chunky

Silver Member
Ah this thread isn't what I was expecting.

I was hoping to brag about my momentum down a long, steep hill...

I'll keep on waiting.
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
I just want to know what is your maximum speed when you playing single stroke roll, double stroke roll and single paradiddles as 16th notes.
...slower than last month, and next month they'll be even slower than this month ... err.. hang on, it doesn't sound right... maybe it's the opposite way round... or maybe it's not... old age... old hands... old brain... :)


@Arky - What's an netiquette? ;-))
 

Talismanis

Senior Member
Arky, you say you've been playing around 2 years now - I'm curious, do you work on speed quite a lot? I've been playing for about 9 years now and I've never really worked much specifically on speed, you're actually a fair amount faster than me, though I feel like if I practiced speed I'd be able to hit those kind of speeds without too much difficulty.
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
...But you get the idea ;-)
Yeah, I do thanks...

It's another way to say the same word isn't it... like decates, lol...

I can roll 'em fast.........and smoke 'em even faster!!
Yep, ...been rolling for 20 years now ...so I'm not bad either ... but I'm not so good on rollerskates ...to have a go in that race, I must practice a bit ...and buy knee-pad too ...and some rollerskates.
 

Arky

Platinum Member
Arky, you say you've been playing around 2 years now - I'm curious, do you work on speed quite a lot? I've been playing for about 9 years now and I've never really worked much specifically on speed, you're actually a fair amount faster than me, though I feel like if I practiced speed I'd be able to hit those kind of speeds without too much difficulty.
First of all, I feel a bit embarrassed in case someone thinks "oh no, this guy will yet another time open his mouth and talk about speed, blah blah". Because (purely coincidentally) speed _is_ a topic of quite some interest for me. But well, this thread is literally on SPEED (capital letters - I'm citing them, haha) so I'll reply.

I have been practicing speed for quite a while and basically have reduced that just a few months ago. My strategy was to get into speed as quickly as I could, thus neglecting other stuff which would have to be worked on at a later time (groove, interdependence, basically many really important/musical things). And it worked out! So speed isn't the problem now and I've shifted my focus on motions, control, improving muscle memory etc. I do speed up at times while practicing but I'm doing most stuff at slower/medium tempo, work on evenness, (hand) feel and control.

On the Derek Roddy forum some people have a practice log. I've started a thread on what I've been practicing and have kept it up so far:
http://www.derekroddy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20250
Sometimes it morphs into a blog - sorry for that - but I just thought it would make sense to write down everything music related so whoever reads that stuff will have a better idea what happens in my "musical life".

Some 'influences' on why I hit those speeds are:

- I approached learning drumming fron an "imagine you're an extreme drummer or want to learn this as quickly as possible" perspective. (That also applies to why I started to use a double pedal right from the beginning. I'm still not the most ardent lover of extreme music but I do have a decent respect for the skills involved.)

- I bought decent tutorials to a) learn techniques, and learn them correctly (JoJo's DVD on hands, Todd Sucherman's DVDs - his 1st DVD has a great section on rudiments/handwork, and a few more - e.g. Tim Waterson -> pure shock in the footwork department, Thomas Lang -> coordination craze, Derek Roddy & George Kollias -> metal power, speed).
And b) Apart from the technical stuff they are also _motivating_ so I'm returning to them every now and then, to readjust grip/technique and to get some extra motivation.

I don't think I have extra talent or whatever. I approached drumming from a physical perspective, as said above (and 'physical' includes applying stuff I learned from doing athletics in my youth and having been a guitarist for almost 22 years). So I plunged into it, I was never a fan of "start slow and raise bpm by 1 (or 5) every week/month"... The slow way does have a benefit of course but I tried to progress as quickly as I could. One side effect of that is having to return to the "learn technique properly" stage and relearn to actually _feel/control_ what I'm playing, not only to rely on muscle memory and pad bounce. So that's why I've been relearning some rudiments because the speeds I was hitting at first was a bit of cheating. Starting slow helps building control - and as we all know, control is paramount. But you can work on control by plunging into the fast stuff and try to "clean it up later".

PS: Another side effect of my approach is that the speed progress will slow down quickly and come to a halt altogether. I've got used to that and don't expect any extraordinary further speed progress. But I have more than enough work to bring up lots of rudiments (e.g. the other paradiddle variations, not only the standard pattern) up to speed to get 'balanced'. So if you take/need more time to get at a certain speed actually you'll have a longer period of time having fun achieving those speeds. Makes sense? At first it was a bit discouraging as I basically stopped to progress in terms of bpm but now as I've been focusing on control this discouraging element has completely disappeared. I'm kind of "rebooting" right now, haha.
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
First of all, I feel a bit embarrassed in case someone thinks "oh no, this guy will yet another time open his mouth and talk about speed, blah blah". Because (purely coincidentally) speed _is_ a topic of quite some interest for me. But well, this thread is literally on SPEED (capital letters - I'm citing them, haha) so I'll reply.

I have been practicing speed for quite a while and basically have reduced that just a few months ago. My strategy was to get into speed as quickly as I could, thus neglecting other stuff which would have to be worked on at a later time (groove, interdependence, basically many really important/musical things). And it worked out! So speed isn't the problem now and I've shifted my focus on motions, control, improving muscle memory etc. I do speed up at times while practicing but I'm doing most stuff at slower/medium tempo, work on evenness, (hand) feel and control.

On the Derek Roddy forum some people have a practice log. I've started a thread on what I've been practicing and have kept it up so far:
http://www.derekroddy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20250
Sometimes it morphs into a blog - sorry for that - but I just thought it would make sense to write down everything music related so whoever reads that stuff will have a better idea what happens in my "musical life".

Some 'influences' on why I hit those speeds are:

- I approached learning drumming fron an "imagine you're an extreme drummer or want to learn this as quickly as possible" perspective. (That also applies to why I started to use a double pedal right from the beginning. I'm still not the most ardent lover of extreme music but I do have a decent respect for the skills involved.)

- I bought decent tutorials to a) learn techniques, and learn them correctly (JoJo's DVD on hands, Todd Sucherman's DVDs - his 1st DVD has a great section on rudiments/handwork, and a few more - e.g. Tim Waterson -> pure shock in the footwork department, Thomas Lang -> coordination craze, Derek Roddy & George Kollias -> metal power, speed).
And b) Apart from the technical stuff they are also _motivating_ so I'm returning to them every now and then, to readjust grip/technique and to get some extra motivation.

I don't think I have extra talent or whatever. I approached drumming from a physical perspective, as said above (and 'physical' includes applying stuff I learned from doing athletics in my youth and having been a guitarist for almost 22 years). So I plunged into it, I was never a fan of "start slow and raise bpm by 1 (or 5) every week/month"... The slow way does have a benefit of course but I tried to progress as quickly as I could. One side effect of that is having to return to the "learn technique properly" stage and relearn to actually _feel/control_ what I'm playing, not only to rely on muscle memory and pad bounce. So that's why I've been relearning some rudiments because the speeds I was hitting at first was a bit of cheating. Starting slow helps building control - and as we all know, control is paramount. But you can work on control by plunging into the fast stuff and try to "clean it up later".

PS: Another side effect of my approach is that the speed progress will slow down quickly and come to a halt altogether. I've got used to that and don't expect any extraordinary further speed progress. But I have more than enough work to bring up lots of rudiments (e.g. the other paradiddle variations, not only the standard pattern) up to speed to get 'balanced'. So if you take/need more time to get at a certain speed actually you'll have a longer period of time having fun achieving those speeds. Makes sense? At first it was a bit discouraging as I basically stopped to progress in terms of bpm but now as I've been focusing on control this discouraging element has completely disappeared. I'm kind of "rebooting" right now, haha.
Brilliant post Arky ...kudos to you for such a mature approach, although you're not a beginner into music, 20 odd years of guitar playing does help to have a healthy and motivated approach on this new chosen path of yours, you're doing well IMO, keep on drumming brother.
 

MJD

Silver Member
For a cigarette between 15seconds and 1 minute depending on whether i care about quality.
For drumming? Fast enough. double stokes and paradiddles of course are faster than single strokes but i've been practicing my singles lately and getting them up to a nice blur. I work up to the point where i cant see the sicks hitting the drum anymore and then try to maintain it. can do about 30 second before i tense up too much. Need to work on relaxing when i do this. I expect this will take years to get right.
 

Chunky

Silver Member
Lol this is like a double thread!

But yeah Arky, I see why you've done what you've done. after playing drums and piano for so long I know if I picked up a guitar I wouldn't learn it the conventional way either.

You can really save alot of time and cut corners once you understand 1 instrument. There's no getting away from hard work but, experience teaches us better ways to teach ourselves.
If that makes sense?
 

Liebe zeit

Silver Member
At blues parties in Brum in the 80s I'd roll 3 skinners in my hand standing up and swaying to the sound system at 3am.

Nowadays I'm 2 years into drumming and have concentrated so far on grooves, making music with my band. Now I'm feeling the limits of having a low ceiling tempo-wise and am concentrating a lot of effort into rudiments. Currently I'm at the start of that journey so my top speed for a 16th single roll fill is about 135bpm and with paradiddles about 115bpm. I want that way up, even if only for having a higher ceiling. Also want to get sextuplets sorted.
 

djmemjy

Member
I started working on speed maybe 6 months ago. The reason for doing so is that I noticed my drumming was gridlocked (not sure if anyone has used his term before). Meaning, most of my grooves and fills where denominated in 16th notes. I worked on speed to ensure I would have the facility to play 16th note triplets, and 32nd notes during songs of average tempo with single stroke roll sticking.

My singe stroke roll is clean and smooth up until about 210 - 220 or so.
Paradiddles are clean up until about 180 or so.

Although working on speed does gets frowned upon a bit, it does provide you with more options on the kit. Always got to keep raising the ceiling. Just make sure you don't neglect the other stuff.
 
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