Your Jazz Supergroup

"...at least 4 different drummers who included Krupa, Nick Fatoole, Dave Tough and Sid Catlett..."

Matt,

Great post and yes history is important to me. It would seem to be important to a lot of people including you in this forum. Back to the Goodman band for a bit, I think I have a short film clip of Lionel Hampton playing drums with Goodman in one of the small groups, but I am not sure of the date of the performance. Respect is a two way street and I would like to pay respect to you in turn. Thanks for sharing your insights.
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
Charlie Christian was the most important pioneer of modern electric guitar, no question about it and I applaud your good taste. And thanks for mentioning him. In the interests of historical accuracy, however, it is only fair to point out that he was not in the group at Carnegie Hall in 1938. In the full band, the guitarist was Allan Reuss, but the quartet was Goodman, Krupa, Wilson (only in the small group because he was black, Jess Stacy was the pianist with the full band), and Hampton (only in the quartet also because he was black). It is important to understand that segregation was the norm in 1938, and this was the first integrated performance in a very public, high profile setting. It has been said that only Goodman could have gotten away with this without causing a riot. Of course blacks and whites played together before this concert, but it was in small, out of the way, and private venues. The musicians of the day were in general way ahead of society, I have never read of any significant interracial tension between the musicians in that era. All of the musicians who traveled together experienced a lot of crap in hotels, restaurants and so on, especially in the South. Hell it was over another decade before baseball started the process of integration with Jackie Robinson and look at the crap he had to put up with, a lot of it from other players.

Anyway, I listed this group only in part because of the ground breaking integration. These guys swung their asses off and the music stands on it's own.
Bill, just to clarify...

When discussing Benny Goodman's small groups, most consider the full body of them, which include his trios, quartets and sextets. Your mention is of the quartet with Krupa, and of course you're right...Christian was not with that particular configuration (which includes the 1938 Carnegie hall concert) because Benny Goodman had no knowledge of him until a year later. So I can easily see how you thought I was confused because of my mentioning Krupa as part of the small group scenario that up until and beyond WWII included 20 or more different guys, including at least 4 different drummers who included Krupa, Nick Fatoole, Dave Tough and Sid Catlett.

However, Christian was the primary star of the Goodman Sextet which began after Krupa left in 1939 and was responsible for more than half of all the Goodman small group recordings (24 as opposed to 22 for all other Goodman small group recordings combined).

As for segregation issues, you are correct...the Carnegie Hall Concert was in its way an initial ceremonial breaking of the color line. However, it should be noted that the most significant and longest Goodman southern US tours occured while Christian was a member of the band. And seeing as how you know history, you would have to agree it was safe to say that Christian with his electric guitar and garish clothes that he wore around these towns, which included a giant yellow sombrero...was probably topic #1 of discussion. Of course as history tells it, those southern tours were the real color line breakers because in those places you could actually get yourself killed doing it.

I know this might seem like nickle and dime stuff to some others, but I sensed for you that it was important...and I respect that.
 
Don't forget the contributions of Charlie Christian to that particular small group...the most important early day pioneer of modern electric guitar performance. I always liked the way Krupa played in that small group scenario. He used to really drive things along.
Charlie Christian was the most important pioneer of modern electric guitar, no question about it and I applaud your good taste. And thanks for mentioning him. In the interests of historical accuracy, however, it is only fair to point out that he was not in the group at Carnegie Hall in 1938. In the full band, the guitarist was Allan Reuss, but the quartet was Goodman, Krupa, Wilson (only in the small group because he was black, Jess Stacy was the pianist with the full band), and Hampton (only in the quartet also because he was black). It is important to understand that segregation was the norm in 1938, and this was the first integrated performance in a very public, high profile setting. It has been said that only Goodman could have gotten away with this without causing a riot. Of course blacks and whites played together before this concert, but it was in small, out of the way, and private venues. The musicians of the day were in general way ahead of society, I have never read of any significant interracial tension between the musicians in that era. All of the musicians who traveled together experienced a lot of crap in hotels, restaurants and so on, especially in the South. Hell it was over another decade before baseball started the process of integration with Jackie Robinson and look at the crap he had to put up with, a lot of it from other players.

Anyway, I listed this group only in part because of the ground breaking integration. These guys swung their asses off and the music stands on it's own.
 

aydee

Platinum Member
Chris Daddy Dave (Drums/Percussion)
Terry Riley (Piano/Keyboards/Tape Loops)
Michael Manring (Electric Bass)
Chet Baker (Trumpet/Flugelhorn)

;)
Terry Riley!!!?and Chris Dave!!!? Wow, this is an 'edgy' group.love it.
 
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Moon4Sale

Member
Chris Daddy Dave (Drums/Percussion)
Terry Riley (Piano/Keyboards/Tape Loops)
Michael Manring (Electric Bass)
Chet Baker (Trumpet/Flugelhorn)

;)
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
Group 1

Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins - Saxes
Harry "Sweets" Edison - Trumpet
Django Reinhardt - Guitar
Teddy Wilson - Piano
Ray Brown - Bass
Sonny Payne - Drums

Group 2

Charlie Parker - Saxophone
Clifford Brown - Trumpet
Bud Powell - Piano
Charles Mingus - Bass
Max Roach - Drums

Group 3

Gene Ammons and John Coltrane - Saxes
Lee Morgan - Trumpet
Wynton Kelly - Piano
Paul Chambers - Bass
Elvin Jones - Drums
 

Jazz+Ska!

Member
Hmmm....
"Old" Jazz
Keys - Oscar Peterson
Bass - Charles Mingus
Drums - Elvin Jones
Trumpet - Clifford Brown
Sax - Charlie Parker

"New" Jazz
The Bad Plus + Chris Potter on Sax
 

wsabol

Gold Member
No Bill Stewart? Someone throw him in somewhere!
I know we've been trying to come up with our own unique compinations of players to make the ultimate group.. But my favorite group ever assembled, which it could very easily be a supergroup,--and its eerily similar to my Group#1-- is

Bill Stewart
Larry Goldings (B3)
Pat Metheny
Michael Brecker
 

aydee

Platinum Member
Agreed. Brian Blade has a little bit of everything going for him. You can get everything from Elvin to Gadd out of that guys drumming. Phenomenal.
Blade has been known not to play over sections he felt didnt " need" the drums. Takes some of his co musicians by surprise sometimes..

...
 

wsabol

Gold Member
I just want to second the OP's drummer choice of Brian Blade. I don't think it matters who you pair that guy up with, he'll make amazing drums happen for them. In fact, I might even have to suggest him in the "rock supergroup" thread, since he's done some amazing non-jazz stuff as well. I love his drumming in the "Black Dub" offerings.
Agreed. Brian Blade has a little bit of everything going for him. You can get everything from Elvin to Gadd out of that guys drumming. Phenomenal.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
The key to my supergroup (posted way above) is hearing Tony and Trane together. Something I've always fantasized about. I'm just really curious how they would have fed off one-another.
 

Skulmoski

Gold Member
Let's shake things up a bit

Drums: Terry Bozzio (he recently did a workshop with a bop kit)
Bass: John Paul Jones
Keyboards: Rick Wakeman
Vocals: Nina Hagen
Sax: Angelo Moore (Fishbone)

GJS
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
The small jazz group that broke the racial barrier on public stage was a breakout from Benny Goodman's Big Band:
Teddy Wilson - piano
Benny Goodman - clarinet
Lionel Hampton - vibes
Gene Krupa - drums
Don't forget the contributions of Charlie Christian to that particular small group...the most important early day pioneer of modern electric guitar performance. I always liked the way Krupa played in that small group scenario. He used to really drive things along.
 

Drums101

Senior Member
Two to three years ago, almost all I listened to was straight-ahead jazz. Now, I cannot make myself listen to it.

Sax - Sonny Rollins
Piano - Chick Corea
Guitar - Pat Metheny
Bass - Christian McBride
Drums - Carl Allen
This would be sick, but maybe a different sax player? Sonny Rollins just doesn't seem to fit in this one. I would think maybe Chris Potter, Joshua Redman, Karl Denson.

I think a good funk group would be Mike Clark/Paul Jackson with Karl Denson and John Medeski on keyboard
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
I just want to second the OP's drummer choice of Brian Blade. I don't think it matters who you pair that guy up with, he'll make amazing drums happen for them. In fact, I might even have to suggest him in the "rock supergroup" thread, since he's done some amazing non-jazz stuff as well. I love his drumming in the "Black Dub" offerings.
 
Keys - Taylor Eigsti
Bass - Ben Williams or Esperanza Spalding
Trumpet - Christian Scott
Vocals - Gretchen Parlato, Priscilla Ahn
Rhymes -Mos Def
Drums - me probably. Its a dream band, right?
 
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