Yamaha PHX Phoenix 18"X22" Bass Drum Hi Honk- Tuning advice PLS.

dumbeat

Member
Hi All-

Just bought a 18X22 PHX bass drum. It gives me this High Honk that i cant get rid of. Tried Both Powerstroke Clear with patch and Powerstroke Smooth white, and different tunings. Same thing. Front head is ported.

Any Experience? any thoughts? This aint a cheap drum and the honk is terrible.
Thanks,
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Perhaps somethong is loose and the honk is a vibration. Get on the floor next to the drum and use your hand on the pedal. See if you can isolate where the honk is coming from. Could be a washer, spring in a lug, anything really.
 

dumbeat

Member
Perhaps somethong is loose and the honk is a vibration. Get on the floor next to the drum and use your hand on the pedal. See if you can isolate where the honk is coming from. Could be a washer, spring in a lug, anything really.
Thanks. No it is not a vibration. Its like a hight honk from the beater. Like a "Nasal Bottle" sound for lack of a better tern. The type of sound that is sometimes very emphasized when recording and immediately tamed with an EQ. Never heard it so loud and pronounced.
Its like there is no "Body" and weight to the sound, only this Bottely High Honk.. Again, hard to explain sound in words, but i think drummers are familiar with this tonal phenomenon...
 

OSDrums

Member
I‘m not sure what high honk is, but could it be you experience the „basketball effect“ which appears on some bassdrums in that size if not dampened inside. Do you have something in your BD?

Here is a video I made about the issue, it‘s in german language, but you‘ll get the idea anyway:

 

dumbeat

Member
I‘m not sure what high honk is, but could it be you experience the „basketball effect“ which appears on some bassdrums in that size if not dampened inside. Do you have something in your BD?
I would run with the Basketball analogy, it may be that. No dampening. is the basketball effect typical to the 18"X22" ?
Tell me more if you have experience. Thanks!
 

dumbeat

Member
Thanks for the Video!

Yes- Its exactly that effect. Like a "Bottle". Is there a better head choice even before the dampening, and is there a dampening product that addresses this particular phenomena?
 

OSDrums

Member
The effect comes from reflections on the inner shell walls. The better the shell (smooth surface) the more the shell is prone to this effect. You can easily get rid of it if you apply some dampening layer to the lower half of the shell. It does not need to touch the heads and it does not affect the drums sound other than removing the basketball.
 

OSDrums

Member
I tried different heads, especially an Evans EQ4 frosted because there were rumours that it has the same sound like a PS3 without the basketball effect. Myth busted, result was, that both heads had the same effect...
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
A fairly small piece of dense closed cell foam, say 1" thick x 12" square, at the bottom of your drum, should provide enough soak / interruption of those dissonant overtones. As OS Drums said, it doesn't need to touch the heads.

The deeper the drum, the more overtones are created (both the ones you want, & the ones you don't), & the fundamental loses dominence as a result. Smooth inner surface amplifies the affect.

Frankly, on something the status of PHX, I'd expect that to be engineered out in the design - it's not difficult.
 

dumbeat

Member
A fairly small piece of dense closed cell foam, say 1" thick x 12" square, at the bottom of your drum, should provide enough soak / interruption of those dissonant overtones. As OS Drums said, it doesn't need to touch the heads.

The deeper the drum, the more overtones are created (both the ones you want, & the ones you don't), & the fundamental loses dominence as a result. Smooth inner surface amplifies the affect.

Frankly, on something the status of PHX, I'd expect that to be engineered out in the design - it's not difficult.
Agree with you that its a surprise that a drum as expensive and notoriously designed as the PHX is so unbalanced tonally by default.
 

RickP

Gold Member
I owned a Yamaha PHX Kit with a 20 x 16 bass drums and so had none of the issue reported . I did swap out the stock Remo PS3 for a clear Aquarian Superkick 1 ( not 2) and put a potted front batter head with a felt strip . The drum was fat and resonant and controlled . A beautiful bass drum . Personally I am no admirer of bass drums deeper than 16” deep . My preference being 14” deep regardless of shell diameter .
 

dumbeat

Member
I owned a Yamaha PHX Kit with a 20 x 16 bass drums and so had none of the issue reported . I did swap out the stock Remo PS3 for a clear Aquarian Superkick 1 ( not 2) and put a potted front batter head with a felt strip . The drum was fat and resonant and controlled . A beautiful bass drum . Personally I am no admirer of bass drums deeper than 16” deep . My preference being 14” deep regardless of shell diameter .
I hear ya. Seems im not a big fan of 18" depth either...
What is a potted head? and the SuperKick1 was the reso? No quite clear. Thanks.
As a side note, a bass drum can sound like Lars Ulrich or like Elvin Jones or like Gadd or Bonham and everything in between... so there is no "Good" sound. however, that Basketball/Bottle Honk is an objective issue...
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Potted = ported.

The basketball boing is easily remedied by putting something soft like a T shirt inside.

The T shirt will interfere with the reflections bouncing around.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
What can be done in the design phase to avoid the effect?
That depends on how customised the manufacturer is prepared to go to recognise the different requirements of customer depth / diameter choices. Obviously, on a lower cost kit, that's completely impractical, but on something very high end, it should be a consideration.

The easy options for remedy are reduction in depth & roughening of the shell inner surface, but, depending on the build, augmentation of bearing edges, internal shell form, shell rigidity, overall mass, etc, can all cumulatively mitigate a range of undesirable results.
 

RickP

Gold Member
I hear ya. Seems im not a big fan of 18" depth either...
What is a potted head? and the SuperKick1 was the reso? No quite clear. Thanks.
As a side note, a bass drum can sound like Lars Ulrich or like Elvin Jones or like Gadd or Bonham and everything in between... so there is no "Good" sound. however, that Basketball/Bottle Honk is an objective issue...

Sorry,meant ported Resonant Yamaha logo head with an Aquarian Superkick 1 batter head.
 
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