Wood hoops on Ludwig toms.

deltdrum

Senior Member
I've been trying to piece together my dream kit for the last 2 years, and finally ordered the first piece of my kit, a 1967 3-ply maple 16x16 tom in the Red Sparkle wrap.

I watched the new Levon Helm movie on Netflix yesterday and decided that I would like nothing more than to model a kit after him (he's always been one of my favorite drummers).

I'm looking into getting wood hoops from somewhere but don't exactly know the expenses that I would incur, as well as what I need to buy.

Where would you go to get reasonably priced tom hoops (that hide the drumhead)?

After this, assuming I get 1" or 1.5" hoops, what lugs would I need to buy?

Also, if anyone knows where I could just get wooden rims for the price of hoops (they seem to be much more expensive), that would be awesome.

Can't wait to get this kit done. Just FYI, the kit is going to be as follows:

1 up, 2 down:
9x13
16x16
18x16 (might just get a different brand/cheapo for this. It's just for aesthetics)
26x14 (I've already got an old 1960's Red/Yellow hooped marching drum)
14x6.5 Ludwig Supraphonic LM402K
24" Giant Beat
15" Giant Beat Hi-Hats
20" 2002 Medium crash

So basically it'll have the look of Levon w the tone/timbre of Bonzo.
 

deltdrum

Senior Member
ALSO

Watch "I Ain't In It for My Health" on Netflix.

I'm totally alright with this thread going in a different direction and talking about how awesome Helm was. Completely fine with me.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I hate to break it to you, but there are no wood hoops that hide the head AND are as cheap as metal hoops. Even Yamaha's wood hoops (which won't do what you want) are the most available and too costly. I incurred an additional $180 for two hoops for a snare drum.

To be honest, the hoop doesn't really help the tone I my book. I find no negligible difference in the sound. If you want that woody tone, get real calf heads for your batters.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
To be honest, the hoop doesn't really help the tone I my book. I find no negligible difference in the sound.
With regards to anything ply and/or affordable, I agree, perhaps with the exception of single flange wood hoops, but only in combination with extremely low mass associated hardware.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
With regards to anything ply and/or affordable, I agree, perhaps with the exception of single flange wood hoops, but only in combination with extremely low mass associated hardware.
Agreed. I'm no expert like Andy, but that makes sense. On an economic end. I think Taye-Ayotte make the wood hoops that hide the head on their snares, so getting those rims in different sizes would be a lot of $$$. Plus you'd convert to using claws as well, which is a whole 'nother expense .
 

deltdrum

Senior Member
Thanks for the advice you guys. Maybe I'll save up a bit over time and make her look more pretty over time.

I just realized that this is in the general discussion section and should have been in the "drums" category. My apologies.
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
Wood hoops will probably set you back a little, but if it's what you'd want, they do sound kinda cool. Not sure how much of a difference in sound, but if it's the vibe you want. They'll adjust your approach and maybe touch too, so it would make a difference if that happens.

They start here on Drummaker.com, and looks like they have all sizes:

http://www.drummaker.net/1-800-NEW-DRUM/www.drummaker.com/FMPro?-db=dm_products.fp5&-format=hitlist.htm&-sortfield=name&IDname=wood hoop&-max=16&-token.0=3758822132&-find=&-skip=32
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
FWIW, my Guru's have wood hoops. I experimented with metal S hoops just yesterday. Compared to Guru's ovangkol segmented wood hoops, the metal S hoops made the drum much more tame and generic sounding. I did not prefer it at all. They took a big chunk of personality from the drum, so I now IMO the wood hoops are the best sounding hoop for my particular toms and kick. It made me realize how much character and flavor Guru's wood hoops add.

I don't know if a hoop like Yamaha wood hoops would add as much character as a Guru hoop, because they are 2 different constructions. But I am a big fan of wood hoops on toms, at least the Guru wood hoops. I can't speak intelligently about other manufacturers hoops, as they are made of plywood construction, and are sonically deader than the Guru segmented ovangkol hoop, according to Andy.

Only one way to find out, get a pair of wood hoops and grab some key bub.
 
T

The Old Hyde

Guest
ok, Levon Helm falls into this grey area for me, along with Kenny Arnoff. I remember all the buzz around about Kenny when hurts so good came out...to this day I still don't get it. Levon may have been solid or steady but these are standard attributes for a working drummer. Again, nothing there ever impressed me. Not to say he was supposed to impress me personally, but I cant relate t a level of being a fan of either of these guys. Just me .
 

opentune

Platinum Member
ok, Levon Helm falls into this grey area for me, along with Kenny Arnoff. I remember all the buzz around about Kenny when hurts so good came out...to this day I still don't get it. Levon may have been solid or steady but these are standard attributes for a working drummer. Again, nothing there ever impressed me. Not to say he was supposed to impress me personally, but I cant relate t a level of being a fan of either of these guys. Just me .
Both solid drummers, but not in the same class at all for me.
Levon was not so much about chops, as he was about having a GREAT touch and feel, one of the best in that department. His effect is subtle, suited perfectly for The Band. I would agree with you Levon doesn't stand out, but that was his style not to - subtle.

and of course he sang better than Kenny :)
 
T

The Old Hyde

Guest
Both solid drummers, but not in the same class at all for me.
Levon was not so much about chops, as he was about having a GREAT touch and feel, one of the best in that department. His effect is subtle, suited perfectly for The Band. I would agree with you Levon doesn't stand out, but that was his style not to - subtle.

and of course he sang better than Kenny :)
Exactly, no standing out, so how does anyone notice? drummers that don't stand out but are great are a dime a dozen. so why do people fall over a few who have made it? I was never able to put my finger on why it bugs me to hear certain names. I don't think either of them are bad but they play to the point of being not there to me. and I don't look for drummers who are only flashy either. I don't know what my problem is, im just mad today....
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
FWIW, my Guru's have wood hoops. I experimented with metal S hoops just yesterday. Compared to Guru's ovangkol segmented wood hoops, the metal S hoops made the drum much more tame and generic sounding. I did not prefer it at all. They took a big chunk of personality from the drum, so I now IMO the wood hoops are the best sounding hoop for my particular toms and kick. It made me realize how much character and flavor Guru's wood hoops add.

I don't know if a hoop like Yamaha wood hoops would add as much character as a Guru hoop, because they are 2 different constructions. But I am a big fan of wood hoops on toms, at least the Guru wood hoops. I can't speak intelligently about other manufacturers hoops, as they are made of plywood construction, and are sonically deader than the Guru segmented ovangkol hoop, according to Andy.

Only one way to find out, get a pair of wood hoops and grab some key bub.
But Larry, the argument is that the Gurus are built from the ground up to be the sports car they are. Adding or replacing things to already-made drums are just that - add ons with negligible properties. That's why Guru won't sell just shells to people for them to add their own hardware. It'll mess with the formula. Right Andy?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I told Andy he should sell the hoops by themselves. They are that good. They really impart a lovely sound to a tom. I think his hoops put on any drum will change the tone significantly. And they are not segmented as I said earlier, they are a solid piece of wood, for every section. I think that's what makes them add so much. They resonate. With a much woodier tone than metal I would add. I should experiment with Andy's hoops on my Pearls. I have a lot of experimenting and recording and comparing to do. But the wood hoops are really special. They are unique to the industry, and opens up different tone options.
 

deltdrum

Senior Member
Holy sheeezzee those Guru drums look gorgeous. I've got to agree with Larryace that they should sell the hoops by themselves. They're gorgeous.

I'm looking around on the drum-maker website. The wood rims honestly don't seem to be that ridiculously priced. I could justify dropping ~$350/$400 on these rims over time. I just want to get a solid game plan.

At this point, I just need to figure out whether or not I want wooden rims, or if I want to go with the more vintage bass drum hoop style.

Maybe I'll mix the two. I notice that Levon's kit only has the 1/5" hoops on the upper tom, and normal (metal) hoops on the floor toms.

Fortunately I'm in no rush--the toms that I'm getting are going to sound just as great before the wooden hoops/rims as after, so I can take my time and get what I want. I have a feeling that I may flip flop a few more times before I make my decision.
 

deltdrum

Senior Member
ok, Levon Helm falls into this grey area for me, along with Kenny Arnoff. I remember all the buzz around about Kenny when hurts so good came out...to this day I still don't get it. Levon may have been solid or steady but these are standard attributes for a working drummer. Again, nothing there ever impressed me. Not to say he was supposed to impress me personally, but I cant relate t a level of being a fan of either of these guys. Just me .
I think that watching The Last Waltz solidified my opinion on Helm. Sure, his ability doesn't blow me away, but I don't think that his intent was ever to display his talent.

To be honest, it's how he carries himself onstage, holds himself offstage, and just his whole persona that draws me in. He just strikes me as a simplistic guy that was in it for the full ride.

Playing-wise, he sits right at this weird point in the beat. He's not ahead of the groove like a lot of jazz players I hear, but also doesn't sit behind and lay down the pocket. I don't really know how to describe it but it sure grooves with me. Makes me want to dance.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
But Larry, the argument is that the Gurus are built from the ground up to be the sports car they are. Adding or replacing things to already-made drums are just that - add ons with negligible properties. That's why Guru won't sell just shells to people for them to add their own hardware. It'll mess with the formula. Right Andy?
Correct Bo. More accurately, selling our shells means we loose control of the final instrument, yet we're still associated with it. Also, why should we sell our shells to other builders for them to hang the hardware on & put their own badge on them. We've done the difficult bit. Anyhow, with the latest shells, hanging lugs straight from the Asian parts bin is just taking the piss.

I told Andy he should sell the hoops by themselves. They are that good. They really impart a lovely sound to a tom. I think his hoops put on any drum will change the tone significantly. And they are not segmented as I said earlier, they are a solid piece of wood, for every section. I think that's what makes them add so much. They resonate. With a much woodier tone than metal I would add. I should experiment with Andy's hoops on my Pearls. I have a lot of experimenting and recording and comparing to do. But the wood hoops are really special. They are unique to the industry, and opens up different tone options.
Nice to hear Larry, but to clarify, they are segmented. Solid sections of wood, finger jointed, layered, then formed with seven different machining operations. A lot of work.

Holy sheeezzee those Guru drums look gorgeous. I've got to agree with Larryace that they should sell the hoops by themselves. They're gorgeous.
Nobody would ever buy them, at least, not at a price worth selling them for. We get a ton of requests to sell them separately (mainly from other builders). They cost us $400 / pair to make, so how much could you sell them for?
Thank you for your kind words :)
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Totally with Andy on this. They did all the hard work and have created an ultimate instrument. It would be wrong to get their parts and use other makers parts. If I bought a Ferrari I want the whole system to be in tune with itself by being all Ferrari. Same thing with Guru. I'd want the whole experience. One day ;)
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Totally with Andy on this. They did all the hard work and have created an ultimate instrument. It would be wrong to get their parts and use other makers parts. If I bought a Ferrari I want the whole system to be in tune with itself by being all Ferrari. Same thing with Guru. I'd want the whole experience. One day ;)
Cheers Bo :) How's your voyage of discovery going?
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Cheers Bo :) How's your voyage of discovery going?
Going great! On Maui now. Road to Hana in the morning and helicopter tour Friday. Th day before we come home I'll be attending my first ukulele festival!

I'm trying to talk Mo into the grass skirt and coconuts ;)
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I think you'll be looking for a suitable modesty preserving pair for some time, or maybe that's your plan ;) ;) ;)

Off to the show now with that thought :) See y'all next week.

(Sorry about the hijack)

Best wood hoop prices I've found are from ST drums in germany, but I think a US source would be more appropriate.
 
Top