Why is Jazz a Four Letter Word?

keep it simple

Platinum Member
Here's a good one. Listen at 5:45. This is what you get when rock guys appreciate jazz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e98IpI2ppc
And isn't it just fantastic! I really don't care what title, definition, examination this is subjected to, it's just plain great music from guys who really know their craft. Ok, I admit I'm a Simon fan, & unless you've seen him live, you'll have no idea just how good this guy is, but the whole Toto evolution over the last 15 years has been fascinating and fulfilling. These guys are rockers for sure but foremost great muso's who take influence from many genre, jazz included. Thanks DD, love that clip.
 

Tropellor

Senior Member
I agree, and it does not to be defended. Rock n roll was certainly created by guys with a feel for jazz: Earl Palmer, Eddie Byrd, Mitch Mitchell, Ginger Baker. I guess the question is what did jazz have to offer rock music today, the heavy stuff like Metallica, Meshuggah, Avenged Sevenfold. Wouldn't those guys be better off if they knew how to swing?
I think if Meshuggah was swung it would detract from what they're all about. Don't get me wrong, I love hearing a beautiful swing feel, but I think Meshuggah (and that style of metal) is often meant to be quite calculated and straight. Just thought i'd drop that in there.

Cheers
 
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wy yung

Guest
First rock n' roll record? I'd say that was Rocket 88. Not a jazz player in sight. These were blues musicians, no?
Please stop derailing the thread Jay. As I mentioned, do some research. Ask Steve Smith or something.

This is such a no brainer. Do some homework.
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
That is most certainly true, but there was no rock 'n roll in 1940 either. Aw heck. Look, I don't mean to cause any trouble here, but I still say that jazz players did not create rock 'n roll.

And with that I guess I should call it a night.
The Tympani Five was considered jazz in the 1940s and rock and roll by the mid-1950s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKxj3KbSiYk

This is the first rock n roll record:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy0m5YP5pXQ

But even something like this still swings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5fsqYctXgM

this is rock n roll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ofD9t_sULM

one for good measure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20Feq_Nt3nM
 
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wy yung

Guest
That is most certainly true, but there was no rock 'n roll in 1940 either. Aw heck. Look, I don't mean to cause any trouble here, but I still say that jazz players did not create rock 'n roll.

And with that I guess I should call it a night.
Rock began developing around that time. You can buy Daniel Glass' book:

http://danielglass.com/Rock.html

The fact of the matter is that the drumming timeline has no gaps.

Ken, I reckon they would sound better if they could swing.
 

con struct

Platinum Member
There were no rock drummers in 1940 Jay..
That is most certainly true, but there was no rock 'n roll in 1940 either. Aw heck. Look, I don't mean to cause any trouble here, but I still say that jazz players did not create rock 'n roll.

And with that I guess I should call it a night.
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
Yeah it's great. What I wish many people realized is that it's all connected. Jazz drumming and rock drumming are linked. It's all part of the same timeline. Rock music was created by jazz players. So why are many rock drummers so against jazz drumming? And vica versa.
I agree, and it does not to be defended. Rock n roll was certainly created by guys with a feel for jazz: Earl Palmer, Eddie Byrd, Mitch Mitchell, Ginger Baker. I guess the question is what did jazz have to offer rock music today, the heavy stuff like Metallica, Meshuggah, Avenged Sevenfold. Wouldn't those guys be better off if they knew how to swing?
 
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wy yung

Guest
All I'm doing is challenging the premise presented by wy yung that rock music was created by jazz players, a premise that I believe to be false. And that's all.
There were no rock drummers in 1940 Jay. There is no need for me to prove a positive. Just go to the DW bio pages and read about the guys that began playing rock and funk etc. Names such as Earl Palmer, Panama Francis, Pistol Allen and many others were jazz players before they played rock. Hal Blaine was probably the first dedicated rock drummer. Do some research.

I have no intention of derailing this thread. What you propose is another thread idea. Buy Earl Palmer's biography, Backbeat.
 

con struct

Platinum Member
Better question....

Explain to me why you call yourself Conrad when you are actually Jay Norem?
All I'm doing is challenging the premise presented by wy yung that rock music was created by jazz players, a premise that I believe to be false. And that's all.
 
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wy yung

Guest
No, it is not a joke question.

Explain how rock music was created by jazz players, please.
Contrary to what some may think, a Heinkel III did not fly across America circa 1942 and drop rock music fully formed on NYC.

Rock developed from jazz and blues and morphed into R&B which became rock. I recommend you study the history here at DW. Start with Earl Palmer. I've no intention of writing a history essay. It's already here.
 

Steamer

Platinum Member
Yeah it's great. What I wish many people realized is that it's all connected. Jazz drumming and rock drumming are linked. It's all part of the same timeline. Rock music was created by jazz players. So why are many rock drummers so against jazz drumming? And vica versa.


Yet another Jay Norem/Conrad piece of unbased, untrue utter nonsense well trying to stir up trouble for creating a dividing wall for all involved. GIVE IT A BREAK ALREADY!......

I thought you were banned in your previous life here?

Ignore the utter untruths and nonsense folks........
 
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wy yung

Guest
I'm not at all sure that that's even close to being true. You'll have to back that statement up with some historic facts.
Are you joking???? This is a joke question right?


I'm not going to dignify it with a proper response.
 
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wy yung

Guest
It's a timeless music. and by saying that, I'm certainly not putting down anybody else's favorite music genres.
Yeah it's great. What I wish many people realized is that it's all connected. Jazz drumming and rock drumming are linked. It's all part of the same timeline. Rock music was created by jazz players. So why are many rock drummers so against jazz drumming? And vica versa.
 
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