Who watched the Grammy's? Any thoughts?

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
I totally get his approach to the kit with splitting it down the middle and forcing us to rethink why our kits are set up the way they are...

So now I'm reading the new MD with Mangini and he's going on about how you're somehow not qualified to not like the music if you haven't taken the time to study the technical details of what they're doing, and I'm like, "These guys just don't get it."
I agree the way Mangini comes off in the interview is a little snobby, in concert, he walks the walk and backs it up. Most amazing live drum performance I've ever seen, and I've seen all the big names in person before.

And for all Portnoy's going on about how much he liked the Beatles, he seems to have missed their greatest attribute: the songwriting.
And that is part of why he's not in the band anymore.......(even though yes, he did quit)
 

dtrushr30dw

Senior Member
Oh lordy, that pile of dog poo doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5.

And don't like the sound of the Pearls. Really? The drum tone makes or breaks an album?
I'd think song writing would be more of a key than what drum kit was used on the album.
Yes I do Ike the songwriting but I'm picky about the drum sound and I'm so used to mp's that I don't know what to think of mike mangini's but really I just don't car for the drums sound. And yeah systematic chaos wasn't too great but that and all the others are just kind of there IMO but did leave out six degrees which is actually really cool so just have that replace the systematic chaos. :)
 

dtrushr30dw

Senior Member
I watched all the audition videos and must've got at least a little caught up in it all because I found myself looking fwd to the new album so I could check out Mangini (btw, I always dug Portnoy's drumming). I totally get his approach to the kit with splitting it down the middle and forcing us to rethink why our kits are set up the way they are... but then it comes out and I stream it right away on Rhapsody and ... gawd, I just can't get past the material adn the vocals. I told myself to get over it because I badly wanted to see them (okay, Mangini) when they came through town, but man, I just. could. not. handle. the. music. It wasn't just some mild distaste. It was more like active hate. Their philosophy on creating music rubs me wrong in a severe way.

So now I'm reading the new MD with Mangini and he's going on about how you're somehow not qualified to not like the music if you haven't taken the time to study the technical details of what they're doing, and I'm like, "These guys just don't get it." And for all Portnoy's going on about how much he liked the Beatles, he seems to have missed their greatest attribute: the songwriting.
Yeah mangini is from berklee keep that in mind so expect comments like that.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
........going on about how you're somehow not qualified to not like the music if you haven't taken the time to study the technical details of what they're doing.........
Now where have we heard that before?

Careful, someone could mistake this for a jazz thread. :)
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I agree the way Mangini comes off in the interview is a little snobby, in concert, he walks the walk and backs it up. Most amazing live drum performance I've ever seen, and I've seen all the big names in person before.
I remember you raving about how god-like he was at that show, which only made me want to see him even more. Maybe I should've just sucked it up and went. I know you've seen plenty of greatness and know it when you see it... did you ever see Bozzio with Jeff Beck? That's still my #1 show for being totally floored by a drumming performance. I imagine that Mangini was at least as good. Dang.
 

dtrushr30dw

Senior Member
I remember you raving about how god-like he was at that show, which only made me want to see him even more. Maybe I should've just sucked it up and went. I know you've seen plenty of greatness and know it when you see it... did you ever see Bozzio with Jeff Beck? That's still my #1 show for being totally floored by a drumming performance. I imagine that Mangini was at least as good. Dang.
Do you know if there is a video of portnoy playing with mangini on his double kit on the web?
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
I find it interesting that Dream Theater has now eclipsed WFD for having the greatest potential to cause division on a drum forum.
 

Midnite Zephyr

Platinum Member
One guy made a point that Foo Fighters music is more appealing to women. I think this is absolutely a valid point. Hate to say it, but people want simple tunes: verse, chorus,verse chorus bridge chorus, blah blah blah. I'd say most people don't understand DT type of prog rock. Back in the day, the common folks had songs like "boil dem cabbage down, boy, bake dem whole cakes brown" or "jimmy crack corn, and I don't care". Only the more refined members of society went to the theater on a regular basis where they would hear classical music. That being said, I am a simple guy and DT doesn't appeal to me very much. If I wanna get eclectic, I'll play some jazz or old big band music.
 

Midnite Zephyr

Platinum Member
You bring up an interesting point that I was thinking about last night, reading this thread. Bands like Rolling Stones, AC/DC, Nickelback. Bands that I never liked because they just seemed to sing about nothing, and their music was just repetitive to me, yet they achieved huge popularity. I think the majority of people just want to have fun, and not have to think about their music. That Foo Fighters song for example, to me was just too repetitive on the Grammy's.
Yeah, music is just in the background for most people. I've always liked the Grateful Dead. It's great background music. I'm not a big Foo Fan, but I like a few of their songs. Big Me is a good example of a simple song.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
I think the majority of people just want to have fun, and not have to think about their music.
Yep, there's often tension in the relationship between musician and audience.

Many performers have started out highly accessible and then shifted to more adventurous territory (Beatles, Joni Mitchell, Bowie,).

Other artists start out edgy and then decide they need to eat and pay the rent (eg. The Tubes, Journey, John Wetton).
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
HOW ARE GRAMMYS SELECTED. THIS IS HOW.

An essay by Matt Smith Esq.

There seems to be some confusion about how Grammys are chosen because I'm not sure what is discussed here always falls within those parameters. My old man is a member of NARAS and has voted for years. To be in NARAS you pay some kind of membership fee and have to have been on six verifiable American distributed recordings. So right away, without a distributor of some kind, you're not even in the game, meaning the guy who sells 1000 CDs exclusively at shows is fresh out of luck, just like bands who do 100% of their business in a place other than the US.

Musicians and labels submit their recordings to the Recording Academy for consideration, where an invisible group of 150 Grammy Academy members receive each submission to make sure it meets the qualifications for being considered for a Grammy in that year for which it has been submitted. These votes are counted and the top 5 in each category get nominations.

Ok, this first step is where all the real stuff happens, because this secret panel can do about anything it wants behind closed doors, including cow tow to the major labels who plow these guys with slick packages and occasionally other things. So, your label especially has to be super dedicated to getting your music to these panels, meaning they have to prepare 150 swag bags and send them all to the same address. Who other than a major label is going to be willing to do that?

Now does this mean all 150 vote in every category? No. Of course everyone will vote for song of the year and stuff like that. But if you're in say the Polka Band category there might only be ten members you really have to work on. And I would suppose that if you're in the polka business long enough, you've figured out who those members are and you sit down and have dinner with them etc...I know for instance that the jazz category is always very Lincoln Center influenced, because those guys will go to all that trouble, meaning that in most cases, to get a jazz Grammy nod it's very important that Wynton Marsalis like you. And if you look at the jazz nominees this year, almost all had a Wynton/Lincoln Center connection.

This worthy of Grammy stuff can also work as a censor. That's why most metal genres and a lot of the edgier hip-hop will never get in the door. That's also why the metal lines are always blurred with Grammys. Besides, how many NARAS members have even heard that much metal? I would bet very few.

So how does a relatively small label like Roadrunner get Dream Theater in this year? Well, look at all the swag they were able to offer this time? It probably overwhelmed most of the metal submissions, whose packets were probably small time in comparison. Of those who actually listened to the music, I'll bet it wasn't all that many.

Now, once you get nominated the process becomes a lot more fair because voting for winners from the nominees is then opened up to all members of the Recording Academy...in other words this is when my old man gets his envelope. Then the members can vote in each general category and a limited number of subcategories that are decided by the submitted listed recordings that qualified him for NARAS to begin with. Therefore, Dad can vote in best large instrumental jazz recordings, but not in any country category. This is also why there are so many surprise winners at this stage in the game. I mean does anyone believe in a million years that members of the Chicago Symphony are going to vote in Justin Beiber for best new artist (a major category that everyone can vote in) when Esperanza Spalding is sitting there? It's a no brainer. It's also why Herbie Hancock can win best album and Tony Bennet can win until he passes and is reanimated each year to receive even more nominations. For the snobs and the artist types, this where they get their revenge.

Also believe that NARAS has figured this out too. That's why you will probably now see that with each passing year the nominees will be less artist and more corporate driven, because they want a good show...and the Beib not getting to thank Beiber Nation aint a good show.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Now where have we heard that before?

Careful, someone could mistake this for a jazz thread. :)
hahahaha......Pocket for the Win!

did you ever see Bozzio with Jeff Beck? That's still my #1 show for being totally floored by a drumming performance. I imagine that Mangini was at least as good. Dang.
I've seen Bozzio in person many times, but not with Jeff Beck.

I wish Bozzio would go back to doing projects like that, or that he and Vai would kiss and make up. All the way out there in far left field stuff he does these days is just too out there.


I always loved that Neil Peart seemed to actually have something deeper to say with his lyrics. Then I would listen to most other bands, and all they sang about was girls,
I agree, most of the bands I listen to are because they have deeper lyrics.
I don't get how some bands can get away with fluff for lyrics for so long.

So how does a relatively small label like Roadrunner get Dream Theater in this year? Well, look at all the swag they were able to offer this time? ...Of those who actually listened to the music, I'll bet it wasn't all that many.
To be fair, Roadrunner was bought out by Warner Music Group.
 

Midnite Zephyr

Platinum Member
I know this won't be a popular statement, but I always put the Beatles in the simple lyric, boring musicianship category, and never really liked them. I loved to learn their songs on the piano growing up, because they were easy to learn.
Interesting that you say that. I find the Beatles deserve every bit of the accolades that they got then and now. Their music stands the test of time. What band do you think people will still enjoy a hundred years from now? They are incredible musicians with each member going on to a successful solo career. Paul's bass playing is second to none. The only other bass player that I always enjoyed that much is Bill Wyman from the Stones. I'm talking rock, of course. Jazz bass players are in a league of their own.
 
A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
You're right I forgot that...more reason for their inclusion...big label...high profile 2011 gimmicks...bigger swag bag.
Roadrunner is not the tiny label it was in the 80s and 90s check out their roster
 

HoM3R

Member
The Foo's won Hard Rock/Metal for the song White Limo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebJ2brErERQ
Which is definitly Hard Rock and has Lemmy in the video.

But I think most of todays music can't be defined by pop / alternative / rock / metal and I freaking love it!
Its a shame for awards like the grammy's that need some sort of categorisation.
But its still fun to argue, Coldplay's song Every Teardrop Is A Waterfall for best Rock what were they thinking!
 
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