Which came first- the chicken or the egg?

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
It's hard for me to imagine someone laying down a nice groove, and the guitarists don't know what to do with it. Just hit a chord for crying out loud. That's unfortunate. You'd think the bass player could latch on at the very least.
What I find Larry is that these people have never done improvisation before.
They need to copy a tune and hear the drum part that they are used to hearing.
I have seen this type of musician a lot over the years.
They are parrots so to speak. They are not jammers.
They simply don't have the ability to listen to what is being played and adapt their playing to it.
They will come in with a change early if the lead guitar is stretching out a lead. They can't hear that he isn't finished yet.
They just can't listen and feel.
 
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brittc89

Pioneer Member
What I find Larry is that these people have never done improvisation before.
They need to copy a tune and hear the drum part that they are used to hearing.
I have seen this type of musician a lot over the years.
They are parrots so to speak. They are not jammers.
They simply don't have the ability to listen to what is being played and adapt their playing to it.
They will come in with a change early if the lead guitar is stretching out a lead. They can't hear that he isn't finished yet.
They just can't listen and feel.
Im sorry, but BE A MUSICIAN! Write a song for Gods sake. Why is it the responisbitly of the guitarist to take a beat and make a song. COME ON!!! You wanna be a part of the band, write music! Write music! Not solo drumset jam fests. I honestly am very confused by this discussion. I guess Im sidin with the rest of the band here. If you arent writing music, youre replaceable! You gotta be inside whats goin on. You have to be a musician, not just a drummer. I hate drummers to be honest, I LOVE musicians. Dave King from the Bad Plus, hes a musician. He is music. He writes, he plays incredibly, hes the entire shebang. I dont respect people that dont even try to write music. You gotta give it a shot. It might be a flop but at least you gave it a shot. A drum part is not a song. Its a solo. If you wanna be a solo indy rock drummer or whatever, keep just layin down the drum beats. If you wanna be a musician. If you wanna be a part of something bigger than yourself, write some music man! Its that simple. To the OP, Why do you get off so easy in the process? You dont, obviously because youre not getting taken seriously. I know a lot of people who play drums, I know a lot musicians, I wish more could be both, but they arent because they dont realize were not relegated to back beats! WRITE! I love writing music. Its therapy on wheels man. Its all a part of it. And anyone can do it. Thats the beautiful part. Just play what sounds good to you. And then bring it in and get some respect! You dont have to be just a drummer. If I was a guitarist and a drummer thought I would just write a song because they were playing a drum beat, I would say, man, you got the sound in your head, come back with something and well give it a shot. Im so sick of the whiners. This is your craft, your art, learn what the hell youre talking about. You think I sit in ear training classes and theory classes with a big stupid grin on my face? Hell NO! But I love to learn it because I love my craft, I love music so much, how could I not want to be able to truly create it in every sense possible?! Write some music! Write some music! Not drum beats, write a song. THink it out. Itll probably be better than some lame riff in a funk jam. And man, its your creation, you did it. The feeling of watching something you are responsible come to life, its indescribably beautiful. So write a song. Bring it in. Give it a shot. Enough complaining. Dont be chicken and lay an egg!!!
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
You make a valid point brittc89 and you are right in doing so.
I am a drummer and not a writer. I don't compose charts for songs. I take something that is being played and I find a rhythm for it. I find fills for it, etc. When I do find the drum parts that fit the music I will use those parts every time the song is played. In essence I wrote the drum part by experimenting with playing the song with the band and playing to what is played.

Most of the musicians that I know are not writers either.
Example; A guitar player comes up with something, The other players eventually come up with their parts. People keep adding parts to it and it eventually becomes a song.
The guitar player didn't write the whole song. He supplied a concept and everyone contributed to it.

Is that the wrong way to do it? I don't know?
I enjoy being a part of doing it that way.
Music is a part time hobby for us. We are not pros. We have fun interacting with each other while doing this. It keeps us off the streets so to speak! LOL!

I honestly wouldn't know how to write a guitar part for a song anymore than the guitar player would know how to write the keyboard or the drum part.
He depends on me to come up with my own part. We will discuss what people are playing and make changes during the process.
 
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azrae1l

Silver Member
i'm pretty sure britt didn't mean write the whole song for every instrument. not many people could do that. i'm betting he meant get some ideas for a song. rough ideas for what might go well with certain parts but not write every little note for for every single instrument.

i've done that and it's virtually impossible if you can't play that instrument, hence me learning drums right now.....
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Both are extremely valid views. Britts is the more take the bull by the horns approach, very valid and respectable.

Bobs view is more collaborative, with each member contributing their strength to whatever part of the song that they are good at.

I respect Britts position a lot, but Bobs approach gets the job done too.

If a drummer comes in with a fully formed song, and is trying to teach it to the guitarists, you have to have some pretty secure guitarists to get them to abandon their "top dog" mentality and take direction from their drummer. Just saying.

Hopefully you work with guys who are ego free and can handle a drummer who is on their level, musically speaking.

Britts approach is the harder approach, learning the nuts and bolts of pitches, and better IMO because you have new skills, but at the end of the day, a great song is a great song no matter how it was arrived at.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
. I honestly am very confused by this discussion.
It seems some people took the OP in one of two different ways.

1) I took like it you did, it's about song writing, which can't really forced.

2) Others took it as just listening to the drummers ideas, which a band should do.

The truth is both are valid: a band should listen to a drummers ideas, assuming there is an idea.

But just playing a beat and asking someone to create someone thing around it isn't presenting an idea for a song. It's presenting a beat which could be used assuming someone else comes up with the idea.

While anyone can lay down some chords, that's much different than writing a song in the spur of the moment, which is what the OP appeared to be requesting IMHO.

I agree if you want to present a song idea, present a song idea. It's doesn't have to be a finished song, a riff, a partial melody, or just a concept could work. But that's more than just playing a beat and hoping someone else will do the rest of the work.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Also, as we've discussed in other threads, drum parts are NOT subject to copyright laws.
Only melody, harmony and lyrics are.

So from a strictly legal sense, coming up with a drum part is not song writing.

It doesn't matter how original your beats are, or how much time and thought you put into coming up with the perfect parts, it is still not considered song writing.

Which is why on most albums, the drummer is rarely ever credited with song writing.
And in many cases where the drummer is credited (Alex Van Halen for instance) it's because the song writer is willfully sharing publishing rights so as to avoid fighting over money later on.
 
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