What you hear behind the kit

M

MasterBlaster

Guest
Sweet!

Super! Congratulations, you have just graduated from drum school 101.
I was going on the advice of my drummer friend. He's a pro, been playing since the 60's. I just think his sound engineer hat was on a tad too tight.

Damn, I'm loving the kick's tone!!!
 

Hollywood Jim

Platinum Member
Re: Sweet!

I was going on the advice of my drummer friend. He's a pro, been playing since the 60's. I just think his sound engineer hat was on a tad too tight.

Damn, I'm loving the kick's tone!!!
Well if you had told him you were going to play Led Zeppelin covers in a loud rock band, he might have given you different advice.

I like the sound of loosely tuned hydraulic drum heads when I'm playing my drum set by myself in my bedroom.




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williamsbclontz

Silver Member
Re: Sweet!

Well if you had told him you were going to play Led Zeppelin covers in a loud rock band, he might have given you different advice.

I like the sound of loosely tuned hydraulic drum heads when I'm playing my drum set by myself in my bedroom.




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I feel like there's 2 types of drummers. Drummers who use hydraulics and pinstripes and those who don't
 

oldskoolsoul

Silver Member
..By the same token, a great player on a badly tuned set can make that bad sounding set sound great within the context of the song. Always, it's the player not the drum..

If only all those 'drummers' that try again and again to sound better with buying again another set of expensive drums would realise this, the world would be a much better place..
 

Spreggy

Silver Member
I don't get you guys. I LOVE the sound of the drums from the throne. My trip I guess is that I attempt to EQ the set with dynamics, tuning, feel, etc. Always EQing. If your snare, for instance, bothers you, doesn't that mean it's time to get out your key and screw around til you get to where you say oh yeah, that's the sauce right there?
Love it, give me more, please let me stay home from work so I can make drum sounds all day.
 

Hollywood Jim

Platinum Member
I don't get you guys. I LOVE the sound of the drums from the throne. My trip I guess is that I attempt to EQ the set with dynamics, tuning, feel, etc. Always EQing. If your snare, for instance, bothers you, doesn't that mean it's time to get out your key and screw around til you get to where you say oh yeah, that's the sauce right there?
Love it, give me more, please let me stay home from work so I can make drum sounds all day.
Yes, I agree with you.
My point was that “usually” when you tune up your drums in your home studio so that they sound good to you; they won’t sound good when the guitar players crank it up to 11 in a live band situation. And the drums are not using microphones. This only happens when playing with loud bands.

Yes, when I’m playing live in the band I think my drums sound great. When the band stops playing my drums have a little too much sustain and a few too many overtones. But again when the band is playing I love the sound of my drums.

A lot of these issues come from the fact that we want our drums to sound like drums we hear on recordings and popular songs.


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Skrivarna

Senior Member
At a large local club I used to play frequently (sadly out of business) the sound man used 1 overhead and a bass drum mic to reinforce the kit. The drums always sounded great there; mine, and every other drummer I saw there. I agree with you, and have no idea why this practice isn't more popular.
That is still fairly common, though often there will be a snare mic as well. In jazz and more acoustic music two or three mics on the kit is perfect. I often bring a single clip-on mic - positioned on the BD hoop it captures most of the drums perfectly, while the cymbals project fine in smaller venues anyway.
 

Sebenza

Member
By the same token, a great player on a badly tuned set can make that bad sounding set sound great within the context of the song. Always, it's the player not the drum.
When I was at a week long jazz seminar in the 90's, I still only had my first crappy Pearl Export kit (young and poor) with pinstripes on everything but the snare, while all the other drummers had these really nice top range kits.
What's more, I couldn't tune. At all! I just messed around untill the heads felt good and it sounded somewhat acceptable. Which was not good.
So when the daily evening jam session took place in our room one night, I was embarassed, untill one of the teachers I had back then, sat behind the kit and proceeded to pull an absolutely lovely sound out of those wonky drums. Both with sticks and brushes. That was a huge lesson to me regarding drum sound...the player behind the kit matters...a lot!
 

Spreggy

Silver Member
Yes, I agree with you.
My point was that “usually” when you tune up your drums in your home studio so that they sound good to you; they won’t sound good when the guitar players crank it up to 11 in a live band situation. And the drums are not using microphones. This only happens when playing with loud bands.


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It took me a lot of years to learn that you are exactly right. A lot of ring equals hardly any when the rest of the band joins in. Kinda how, in my opinion, Zildjian A crash cymbals don't sound good to me at all in the woodshed. But once the air fills with bass and guitar tones, they magically transform into fantastic cymbals. A glassy sharp tone with mild Chinese undertones. But crap in my basement.
 

whiteknightx

Silver Member
yup a lot of truth in here today. My drums sound terrible when I play them in the basement - I also tune for lots of resonance like Hollywood Jim does. But when they are out in the open with the band, I've had a couple drummer friends tell me my drums are some of the best unmiked drums they've heard in our little gigging circuit.

There is a huge difference between what you hear at the kit, and what the crowd hears. In my own humble opinion - JAW sounds great in the basement or if you are close miking, but in a mid sized room they turn to mud 20 feet away and are buried by other instruments.

Best thing anyone can do when tuning your drums, is to have a drummer friend over to play and you stand 15 feet away and listen.
 

BruceW

Senior Member
I truly believe what folks are saying here in this thread, what I haven't seen is how folks go about the process of managing the situation. From a practical standpoint.

Do you all have someone play your kit, while you go back and forth from out front, making adjustments and back again?

I work hard at getting them to sound good to me from where I sit. And yes, when I hear recordings of me, I cringe a bit about the sound of the snare. (My band leader, who is also a sound tech, assures me that it sounds good out front tho)

How do you folks go about it?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I truly believe what folks are saying here in this thread, what I haven't seen is how folks go about the process of managing the situation. From a practical standpoint.



How do you folks go about it?
I record my gigs and listen back.
 

Hollywood Jim

Platinum Member
I truly believe what folks are saying here in this thread, what I haven't seen is how folks go about the process of managing the situation. From a practical standpoint.

Do you all have someone play your kit, while you go back and forth from out front, making adjustments and back again?

I work hard at getting them to sound good to me from where I sit. And yes, when I hear recordings of me, I cringe a bit about the sound of the snare. (My band leader, who is also a sound tech, assures me that it sounds good out front tho)

How do you folks go about it?
Like Larry, from time to time I record my gigs.

My other solution is I have four sets of drums:
My room at home = a dampened set of Sound Percussion drums, and cymbals with Cymbomutes.
Small venues, softer music = 1963 Slingerland.
Larger venues, louder music = 2002 Yamaha Stage Custom.
Large venue, guitars cranked up to 11 = Yamaha Live Custom.
I also have 5 snare drums tuned up for various sound levels.


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Hollywood Jim

Platinum Member
By the way, yes I was able to have several drummers play my drums when I was in the house band for an open mic blues jam.
If you ever have the chance to supply your drums for a backline (your drums used by other bands) do it, at least once.


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