What is your focus, Chops or Groove

Formless Method

Senior Member
I focus on both because I think they both matter. Sometimes you need a Bernard Purdie groove to uplift the song and other times you need a Buddy Rich single stroke roll to push the song and lift the band up. Just depends

My two favorite drummers are Bernard Purdie and Buddy Rich. I could never watch either all the time so I go back and forth and I am influenced in different ways by both.

Here is an example of my groove http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YonYSBJ_SNE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8BqIUqRCdfQ This is my "chops", I have posted this vid up a few times incase you have seen it so just skip this vid if you have seen the vid of me building up a single stroke roll

Just wondering what inspires you and what your main focus is, chops or groove. It would be cool if you posted a vid of your chops and then one of your groove.

All in all I believe it all matters and can even be combined, chops and groove that is.
 
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Formless Method

Senior Member
Focus on? Neither.
That means you're thinking, not feeling, the music.
I am talking about while practicing as in are you trying to achieve a better groove or faster more powerful chops. Both are important to focus on in my opinion along with other things.

When playing music of course your mind should be free.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
The chops (and mindset) needed to groove are equally important.

But if by "chops" you mean technical fireworks, than absolutely it's the groove for me.

But groove just flows, I don't have to focus. If there's a goal when I play, it's to serve the song.

Bermuda
 

keep it simple

Platinum Member
Jay, you've posted the same clip for both examples :(

Additionally, & I know this is not your intention, but a chops/groove thread usually polarizes opinions pretty rapidly. If respondents concentrate on when a bias is appropriate, rather than which is the most important, you might just get away with it :)

Good luck!
 

Formless Method

Senior Member
The chops (and mindset) needed to groove are equally important.

But if by "chops" you mean technical fireworks, than absolutely it's the groove for me.

But groove just flows, I don't have to focus. If there's a goal when I play, it's to serve the song.

Bermuda
Well when I say chops I mean endurance, power and sometimes speed. I have seen some drummers that can absolutely groove down to the bone but when thay are playing in a high tempo kind of song and everything is building, the band, the power, and even the audience is on their toes the drummer just lags behind because he doesn't have the endurance, power and speed needed for a particular song. It's hard to put into words. I have also seen speed demons totally rip a song apart because they play like robots and even more so are chopping to much instead of grooving.

That's why both matter to me along with other things. I am always trying to groove but when I get in a situation where I have to BRING IT I am always glad that a part of my practicing goes to building endurance, power and speed so when it's needed I have it ready
 
A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
getting an awful lot of milage out of that one video huh Jay

I think it is in about fifteen threads currently


......and if your chops don't groove they are useless

make music
 

Formless Method

Senior Member
getting an awful lot of milage out of that one video huh Jay

I think it is in about fifteen threads currently
i think it is in three I may be wrong, I used it as an example along with another of mine with groove. I would rather post what i am actually doing instead of using someone elses videos as an example. i have other videos but that is the main one that is an example of when I am into more a chops situation instead of groove ALTHOUGH that song elizabeth reed by the allman bros is a jazz groovy song, so I guess I am mixing both groove and chops

I put a warning up that I have posted the vid a few times so anyone can skip it and go to my groove vid :) Hope that helps
 
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Formless Method

Senior Member
Jay, you've posted the same clip for both examples :(

Additionally, & I know this is not your intention, but a chops/groove thread usually polarizes opinions pretty rapidly. If respondents concentrate on when a bias is appropriate, rather than which is the most important, you might just get away with it :)

Good luck!
I know the other thread was closed so I tried to put a spin on it. It seems like everyone is pretty cool so far lol. if it goes south I will pull it down myself.
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
Well when I say chops I mean endurance, power and sometimes speed. I have seen some drummers that can absolutely groove down to the bone but when thay are playing in a high tempo kind of song and everything is building, the band, the power, and even the audience is on their toes the drummer just lags behind because he doesn't have the endurance, power and speed needed for a particular song. It's hard to put into words. I have also seen speed demons totally rip a song apart because they play like robots and even more so are chopping to much instead of grooving.

That's why both matter to me along with other things. I am always trying to groove but when I get in a situation where I have to BRING IT I am always glad that a part of my practicing goes to building endurance, power and speed so when it's needed I have it ready
Hmm...I see "chops" as usually meaning something different than endurance, power, and speed. It used to mean those things.

Drummer A: "Why do you practice everyday?"
Drummer B: "I gotta keep my chops up."

It seems that nowadays "chops" is used to refer to the ability of a drummer to throw a bunch of speedy licks into whatever they play, which is the opposite of playing a simple beat with an incredibly deep pocket. That's where the dichotomy comes from, and why threads like this turn into (unnecessary) battles.

To answer your question, when I sit down at the kit and I'm not working up tunes for a show, I personally practice "chops"--speed, power, endurance, and also precision, dynamics, tone, variety, feel, finesse, and technique. It's like Michael Jordan once said, to paraphrase: "I work hard during practice, so when the game comes I can just play." When I play a gig, I don't focus on what lick I'm going to play or how my left hand technique is/isn't matching my right hand, or how fast I can play a fill. I listen to the music, and just let the playing happen, as it becomes inspired by the music. I practice so that I *can* do anything and everything, so that when I'm playing a gig, I can *do* anything and everything the music calls for. Most of the time, though, that is laying down a simple groove with great feeling.
 

boltzmann's brain

Senior Member
it's about chops for me. if a drummer grooves, that's good, but if he doesn't have chops, it's a letdown. blazing chops without groove is just irritating. have monster chops, blow everybody away, and be on time. my way of saying they're both of equal import. unless the music is boring. then groove will do, but who likes boring music?
 

Formless Method

Senior Member
Hmm...I see "chops" as usually meaning something different than endurance, power, and speed. It used to mean those things.

Drummer A: "Why do you practice everyday?"
Drummer B: "I gotta keep my chops up."

It seems that nowadays "chops" is used to refer to the ability of a drummer to throw a bunch of speedy licks into whatever they play, which is the opposite of playing a simple beat with an incredibly deep pocket. That's where the dichotomy comes from, and why threads like this turn into (unnecessary) battles.

To answer your question, when I sit down at the kit and I'm not working up tunes for a show, I personally practice "chops"--speed, power, endurance, and also precision, dynamics, tone, variety, feel, finesse, and technique. It's like Michael Jordan once said, to paraphrase: "I work hard during practice, so when the game comes I can just play." When I play a gig, I don't focus on what lick I'm going to play or how my left hand technique is/isn't matching my right hand, or how fast I can play a fill. I listen to the music, and just let the playing happen, as it becomes inspired by the music. I practice so that I *can* do anything and everything, so that when I'm playing a gig, I can *do* anything and everything the music calls for. Most of the time, though, that is laying down a simple groove with great feeling.
I totally see your points here and agree with them.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
I know the other thread was closed so I tried to put a spin on it. It seems like everyone is pretty cool so far lol. if it goes south I will pull it down myself.
Let's please let these threads run their course. If there's a problem, the mods will address it.

Thanks,

Bermuda
 

Formless Method

Senior Member
Also let me be clear for a begining drummer absolutely feel and groove. As a drummer progresses I do think it could help them to work on their endurance, power and speed for those occasions where it is needed.

On another note I can absolutely see how this thread could get nasty quick so hope everyone is cool and open minded :)
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
Jeez, didn't we just leave this party? This is a complete zombie subject. My focus is on “chops” and “groove” and a whole lot of other non-mutually exclusive, equally important things.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
My focus is balance and breadth. Singling out an aspect of playing to "master" is just silly to me. I want to be a well rounded musician. There's a lot more to drums and music than just chops and groove.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
My skill level doesn't match my goals, but for drumming I try to stress all things drumming. To omit one would be a mistake. you don't have to work on them daily but given the time I would. I could probably count on one hand the number of videos I have seen on this site from members that can do a decent 2 stroke, or bounce role. Maybe it was my band and orchestra education but I feel this rudiment is way over looked. If you are going to drum, be a drummer. If not, that's the reason Bass Guitars were made.
 
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