The truth

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I can appreciate what's going on there, but it's just not my cup of tea. Somehow I feel like there's 4 minutes I'll never get back. But, I've listened to some Ornette Coleman and some of the stranger Keith Jarret stuff in my time and I just prefer a little more structure.

Great display of chops, though!
 

dairyairman

Platinum Member
i like chris dave. i like him because he's not only just another incredibly skilled jazz drummer, he's innovative. i've never really heard anyone play the drums quite like him. some of the things he does with beat displacements and so on takes the music in a direction i've never heard before.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
Interesting vid, Nothing new and unusual about it!
I saw a young jazz drummer putting out some average playing.
I didn't agree with some of his play but that is normal for Jazz.
A great deal of it was hard and choppy to me. Not as dynamic and smooth as I would have liked it to be. But thats just my opinion!
It lacked swing! It was tense! But I guess that someone will post that it was supposed to be hard and choppy and lack swing.
I did like the tempo changes.
When it got into the portion where just the bass and the drums were playing it was at its roughest. The drums were trying to hard.
I also think that the drummer followed the sax too closely. He should have been more of a middle man between the bass and the sax.
The bass could have had more of a roll in the groove of the piece also

I don't usually comment like this on jazz threads but I decided that today was the day for me to pop my head up so I can get hit with a hammer. LOL

No Matter What You Play, You Are Doing It Wrong! And Someone Can't Wait To Tell You So!
 
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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Jazz doesn't resonate with me much either. What is the point of this music? To confuse people? It's all very self centered stuff, look how great I can play this confusing music...I think it's safe to say that I won't be getting chills from anything like this.

Yes they can play, yes they are on a high level, yes they are way more accomplished than I ever will be, but still, I don't care to listen to it.

Can't please everyone, my musical limitations are showing...
 

BrewBillfold

Silver Member
Interesting vid, Nothing new and unusual about it!
I saw a young jazz drummer putting out some average playing.
I agree with that . . . but not with the (other) negative criticisms (in the thread in general . . . well, except for maybe the "lacking finesse" criticism, which isn't about playing more subtly, necessarily, but playing that kind of stuff with more finesse). I'm into that kind of playing, it wasn't too unstructured for me, it all makes sense to me, etc., I didn't think it was bad at all, but it just didn't excite me much.

Except for the saxophonist, whom I found impressive, it just seemed more "advanced amateur" to me. Maybe better sound would have helped though. That clip sounds like it was recorded on a $30 boom box placed in a bad spot on the floor.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
I agree with that . . . but not with the (other) negative criticisms (in the thread in general . . . well, except for maybe the "lacking finesse" criticism, which isn't about playing more subtly, necessarily, but playing that kind of stuff with more finesse). I'm into that kind of playing, it wasn't too unstructured for me, it all makes sense to me, etc., I didn't think it was bad at all, but it just didn't excite me much.

Except for the saxophonist, whom I found impressive, it just seemed more "advanced amateur" to me. Maybe better sound would have helped though. That clip sounds like it was recorded on a $30 boom box placed in a bad spot on the floor.
I didn't mean for my post to be negative as some of the others were. I did understand the tune and what the band was doing. Please don't get the wrong idea from my post. I was being objective and constructive and telling the "Truth" as I felt it, just as the thread title says.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
Never heard the guy, and this probably isn't the best introduction- the sound is so bad it's hard to tell what kind of musical sense this makes. It seems a little under-rehearsed, but that happens. Maybe it worked really well in the room. The choice of tunes seems to point towards the advanced amateur/post-college diagnosis. It would be refreshing, one of these days, to see someone get over without spewing chops all over everything.
 

utdrummer

Senior Member
I almost made it through one minute. Seriously, honkin' sax, unstructured drumming, cranking piano...not for me. Does he have chops? Yes. Is it accompanying the music? Perhaps. Is it listenable? To some. Did I enjoy it? Not at all.
 

BrewBillfold

Silver Member
Jazz doesn't resonate with me much either.
All jazz, Larry? I'm just asking because I'm surprised. There are tons of jazz subgenres--it's probably the most varied genre, aside from something like "world music"--which a lot of people object to as a genre label in the first place.

I do not think there's anything wrong with you liking no jazz, but I'm just surprised. I'd think maybe at least some funk or rock-oriented fusion, or pop jazz, or something like that might be something you'd care for.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
All jazz, Larry? .
Not all jazz. The stuff I can get my head around I can listen to. It's the stuff that I can't understand what they're doing that I don't care for.

I don't want to have to work too hard to extract enjoyment from it, so I guess I'm a little lazy. It all seems so self centered to me. (runs for cover)

Hearing music to me is like listening to a story. Listening to some jazz, to me, is like listening to someone read from a calculus book.

I'm just not that sofistikated....
 

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
Not all jazz. The stuff I can get my head around I can listen to. It's the stuff that I can't understand what they're doing that I don't care for.

I don't want to have to work too hard to extract enjoyment from it, so I guess I'm a little lazy. It all seems so self centered to me. (runs for cover)

Hearing music to me is like listening to a story. Listening to some jazz, to me, is like listening to someone read from a calculus book.

I'm just not that sofistikated....
I think of it more as listening to someone speaking Japanese. I'm like "Wha...?"
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
The biggest problem with the first vid is the sound quality. "Difficult" styles need good sound because the timbres they create are a big part of it.

Art Ensemble of Chicago sometimes venture into this kind of maniacal improv. Saw them play when they came out to Oz ... in the mid 80s?

The sound was great, the atmospheres they conjured were a buzz, and the playing was killer. They had tons of variety, some melodic stuff, and they could go from a purr and whisper to a scream in a heartbeat. And they looked so fantastically tribal and kooky :) - it really helped the vibe. It was a real show.

I remember a song from that Art Ensemble show called Dreaming of the Master. It started with a simple, melodic bop horn figure and then somehow gradually degraded into wild, arrhythmic atonality - then it rebuilt itself and fell apart again. Love to hear it again but haven't found it since then.

So since then I have had no complaint about free jazz/fusion - as long as it has timbres, atmospheres or vibes that touch me. This kind of music is all about winging it and seeing how things go - when it fails it just sounds like technical noodling. When it works, it creates real feeling and atmosphere.
 
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