The Old Drummers or the New Drummers?

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
Not to change the subject, but I am anyway...lol, Hes not one of my influences as the Dave Mathews Band is not my particular cup of tea musically, but as a drummer I think Carter Beauford deserves a mention.
Sooo this. Dave Matthews band does not interest me much but Carter's playing is so stanky nasty groovy that I can't help indulge a little bit.
 
M

mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Well stated and thanks for the tip on the album. I will indeed check it out!

To me opinion differences is what makes music and drumming diverse and fabulous. It would be really, really, really boring if everyone came from the same place musically.

Music is a giant melting pot and in reality we may be influenced by more than what we give credit to as the drummers we listen to for inspiration may not have expressed (verbally or otherwise) their influences.

You know what? I wish I could play as well as most of these people listed, including the ones I did not list personally.
Bruford is a hard one to love and he can be very serious but his playing on that album is playful because of the crazy percussion of Jamie Muir (who later went on to become a Buddhist Monk, of all things. It's a good album in parts (the opening track and the final track are great) but some of it doesn't hit the same highs. The 'vocal' tracks are fairly weak (poor vocalist) but the instrumental sections are the stronger parts; but it's just music, after all.

I have one album by 'Bruford' (the bands) live albums with Alan Holdsworth and Jeff Berlin on vinyl and I just can't decide whether or not I like it. I think part of that is that it's very 'four-square' and mechanical (a lot of that is Holdsworth) but it has interesting parts. I'm not sure if Bill Bruford has ever actually managed to appear on an album that doesn't have bad parts! Often it's too self-indulgent and other times it's just not happening. He is a good live improviser though in King Crimson.

Glen, you still haven't apologised for ad hominem attacks or even replied with any substance on any of these issues.
 
S

sticks4drums

Guest
Just so I understand. When Moon jumped all over me a couple of months ago because I said I didn't care for Jazz, or Jazz didn't do it for me. That was ok. MFB, and Ducky were ok with that. I just want to make sure there is no double standard going on here.
 
M

mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Just so I understand. When Moon jumped all over me a couple of months ago because I said I didn't care for Jazz, or Jazz didn't do it for me. That was ok. MFB, and Ducky were ok with that. I just want to make sure there is no double standard going on here.
I didn't see that part. Funnily enough, I don't read everything ever posted on this forum. This morning, for instance I left the house at 7AM and returned at 5PM and then managed my paperwork until 7PM; so I haven't been trawling the archives.

There's no double standard here, I'm just calling what I see and in this case it's a consistent behaviour pattern.
 
D

Doctor Dirt

Guest
Mr. Peart..........very good drummer, with a band that has a boring sound production. The singer is something else too, not sure what!! Many on this forum equate money earned to musical greatness. Not sure what thats about either. Doc
 
S

sticks4drums

Guest
I didn't see that part. Funnily enough, I don't read everything ever posted on this forum. This morning, for instance I left the house at 7AM and returned at 5PM and then managed my paperwork until 7PM; so I haven't been trawling the archives.

There's no double standard here, I'm just calling what I see and in this case it's a consistent behaviour pattern.
It's funny, the other day when I was being transparent and opening up on here you were no where to be found. When it is time to jump on faults you are there in a second, especially when I am involved. Good thing there were some cool character people on site to chime in. You are going to have a rough go at life just like I did. Maybe you could learn from how messed up I am and change your consistent pattern. Good luck.
 

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
Just so I understand. When Moon jumped all over me a couple of months ago because I said I didn't care for Jazz, or Jazz didn't do it for me. That was ok. MFB, and Ducky were ok with that. I just want to make sure there is no double standard going on here.
If that's an accurate description of what happened, no, that wasn't okay. Do you understand?

I am ok with you saying that you don't care for jazz, or it doesn't do it for you. Do you understand?

Nothing I have posted in response to you was towards the goal of ruining your experience here, it was all responding to things you have said on their own merit. Do you understand?
 
S

sticks4drums

Guest
If that's an accurate description of what happened, no, that wasn't okay. Do you understand?

I am ok with you saying that you don't care for jazz, or it doesn't do it for you. Do you understand?

Nothing I have posted in response to you was towards the goal of ruining your experience here, it was all responding to things you have said on their own merit. Do you understand?
Well that was a bit condescending, but I guess that is ok. Still seems like a double standard to me.
 

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
Well that was a bit condescending, but I guess that is ok. Still seems like a double standard to me.
Again, you respond with multiple claims, I'm being condescending, and holding a double standard, but despite these accusations you don't respond to a *single* thing I said, despite me directly asking you to respond point by point in a very brief post. I am giving you a courtesy that you refuse to give me, and that is responding directly to what you say.

How is having a completely consistent position on whether it's you or moon who engages in personal attacks based on someones taste, a "double standard"?

My position on such bullying is the same for anyone on this board.
 
Last edited:
M

mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
It's funny, the other day when I was being transparent and opening up on here you were no where to be found. When it is time to jump on faults you are there in a second, especially when I am involved. Good thing there were some cool character people on site to chime in. You are going to have a rough go at life just like I did. Maybe you could learn from how messed up I am and change your consistent pattern. Good luck.
What's wrong with my pattern?

I'm twenty-three. I have a good degree from a good University in something I care deeply about. I'm training to be in a profession that has good job stability and reliability as well as personal affectation and job satisfaction. I'm reasonably intelligent, with a good grounding in a number of things and against your judgement have seen a Hell of a lot of the World, including severe drug addiction, criminality and genuine poverty; so I don't even lack perspective - although there are also many things I still haven't seen.

I know most of my strengths and weaknesses including my forthright behaviour and my tendency to view negative personality traits and call out persistently negative behaviour, including my own. I also know that I am quite good at analysing situations at a semantic level but sometimes lack emotional judgement and on occasion struggle to relate to other people.

I have a specific learning disorder that sometimes affects my higher level functioning - especially in mental arithmetic and spatial reasoning, organisation as well as handwriting and sometimes sentence structure. I often avoid using personal pronouns (this post excepted) to appear formal,and I am a stickler for correct apostrophe usage and sometimes notice split infinitives.

In other words - I see no issue.

I'm not confusing opinion with fact and am capable of seeing beyond my own point of view; even (especially) when I don't agree. I don't tend to insult other posters for their opinions and only do so when those opinions are expressed ad infinitum and irrelevantly or make personal attacks purely for the sake of being defensive.

I also enjoy long walks on the beach and the smell of the Autumnal breeze.

I also appreciate that I spent about a minute deciding whether or not to write 'the Autumnal breeze' or 'an Autumnal breeze'. I value my phrasing.
 
Last edited:

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
I also enjoy long walks on the beach and the smell of the Autumnal breeze.
mediocrefunkybeat...the real question is: Do you like Pina Coladas?


There are way too many drummers I've liked to make any list.
"Old", "New", doesn't matter to me. There's a few drummers I like, but don't care for most of that bands music too.

There are a few guy's around town also, that when I see them play, they always make make me say "yeah, that's cool!"


Bonham and NP (since there was a mini "debate") ......
I kinda think it may be a generational thing more than anything (even though MTL stated he liked NP/Rush in the past).
When BOTH became popular, there weren't a bunch of other drummers doing what they were doing, it was just them doing it.

I can see both sides of saying either guy isn't for them.
I still like NP's early/mid stuff, but after Signals....eh not so much. Still respect the work though.
Likewise, there's a lot of Zeppelin's stuff that I don't care about.

People don't really site Carmine Appice as an influence, but he influenced Bonham A LOT.

To me, The Led Zep Experience Sticks went to would be just like going to see a great Rush tribute.
It's not "THE GUY".... It may be really top notch, but it's not the original, even if it's the son.
I haven't seen Jason's thing, but I have seen a really good Zep tribute act, and TBH, between the two, I'd probably rather see the act that does the whole thing and dresses like the band they are portraying. Even though it's Jason BONHAM.

Thanks to the "Three boys club" (Seymour Stein, Jon Landau and Jann Wenner), Rush will probably never be in the R&RHOF. Lots of other deserving bands as well.

It's curious that many still consider Buddy Rich as the "King" of drummers, when his style of music is not played by many these days at all, and there are many drummers who have "surpassed" what he did--as far as "technical ability".
Even with that, he's still about as revered as he was "back in the day".
Just like anything else, there will be people that will/still fall out of themselves over it, and some that will say "So, what's the big deal? "X" guy can play faster and has a bigger kit"...
 
M

mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
I like Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
You know I at one time could not listen to Bill Bruford for more than 2 measures. Then about 6 years ago he brought his latest Earthworks lineup to a local club and I gambled and went.

I was completely impressed by him and his band - even to purchase his Footloose & Fancy Free cd and listen to it from time to time.

... His rock playing and even Earthworks prior to this album to me were nothing short of flat.
Fair cop ... mutter grumble lol

There is something cold and clinical about BB's playing - it's usually not very juicy. But for some reason, it works for me. I get a kick out of the clarity and space (same can be said for others on that list). I also get a buzz from the washy busyness of players like Moonie, Mitch, Elvin etc. Also have a huge soft spot for great ghost note players with beautiful feel like the Steely Dan drummers. Also love players with "ethnic" influences because they usually have a colourful palette of sounds.


Bruford is a hard one to love and he can be very serious but his playing on that album is playful because of the crazy percussion of Jamie Muir (who later went on to become a Buddhist Monk, of all things. It's a good album in parts (the opening track and the final track are great) but some of it doesn't hit the same highs. The 'vocal' tracks are fairly weak (poor vocalist) but the instrumental sections are the stronger parts; but it's just music, after all.

I have one album by 'Bruford' (the bands) live albums with Alan Holdsworth and Jeff Berlin on vinyl and I just can't decide whether or not I like it. I think part of that is that it's very 'four-square' and mechanical (a lot of that is Holdsworth) but it has interesting parts. I'm not sure if Bill Bruford has ever actually managed to appear on an album that doesn't have bad parts! Often it's too self-indulgent and other times it's just not happening. He is a good live improviser though in King Crimson.
Good appraisal, Duncan. During and since Crimson, BB was almost obsessed with risks, changing things up and avoiding cliche. By definition, not everything is going to work.


I'm training to be in a profession that has good job stability and reliability as well as personal affectation and job satisfaction ...
Nuthin' like having a bit of affectation, eh? :)
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Just so I understand. When Moon jumped all over me a couple of months ago because I said I didn't care for Jazz, or Jazz didn't do it for me. That was ok. MFB, and Ducky were ok with that. I just want to make sure there is no double standard going on here.
Why is there conflict, wherever you go? You know, guys come and go on these forums. Most get along well with others. Some get unnecessarily confrontational and those guys *always* end up getting the boot.

Can't we all just get along, and have fun and productive conversations?
 

ocdrums

Senior Member
As usual, Harvey Mason is completely left out of the discussion...so here he is. He does it all (as many others do) Recording, tours, live shows, jazz, funk, movie soundtracks....


BTW Sticky: Grow up, you are SO tiresome on this thread.
 

swiNg

Senior Member
the popdrummers of the 60`s - nuggets &

bonham, tommy lee, jimmy chamberlin, dave grohl, danny carey,
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
As usual, Harvey Mason is completely left out of the discussion...so here he is. He does it all (as many others do) Recording, tours, live shows, jazz, funk, movie soundtracks...
Yeah! I just love Harvey's groove on "Moutain Dance" by Dave Grusin... another great player.
 

scorch whammin

Gold Member
There's a strange stigma about Rush that people in the music world just don't want to deal with them or give them their due. I like what Billy Corgan said about them in Beyond The Lighted Stage, basically that the music press wrote endlessly about bands like The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Led Zep, etc., but never gave the time of day to Rush. But as Billy went on to point out, when history looks back on rock bands, Rush belongs in some of those conversations.

It's just never been "hip" to like Rush, which does nothing to diminish their impact. It's like nobody admitted they were listening to Rush back then, but lately a whole bunch of people have come out of the closet. Legions of musicians today cite the influence Rush and Neil Peart had on them. It's undeniable and inescapable. And if you haven't spent some time checking Neil out, it's your loss, IMO. What he did during those early years of Rush was unique and it's never been done as well as he did it, before or since.
Not meaning to be argumentative..but actually, I don't know that I agree with everything said here..and I know one statement you're quoting what someone else said....
...I do agree that the Beatles and the Stones were popular with the press, but Led Zep??...they were never a popular band with the press when Bonham was alive..in fact they were derided often by the press when they were a band..it really wasn't until after they broke up that they came to be a media darling (and sometime later) ...
....and as far as Rush being "hip"....I guess it just depends...I've been around a long time..Rush was always "hip" in the music circles I hung around..they always sold out concerts I went to back in the 80's...I will say this though..they probably are more popular now than they ever have been...
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Hey, scorch. I wasn't implying Zeppelin were media darlings, but they certainly got their share of press, regardless of what the slant was. I think Corgan's point is valid in that Rush couldn't get arrested in the mainstream music media, despite the volume of records or concert tickets they sold.

I think there are musical and non-musical reasons for this. Geddy's shrieking vocals in the early years were something not everyone could take. And the band was so non-controversial. Almost every other band was into the excess and indulgence while these were quiet, introverted family men.

But what I mean by "never hip" is that they just flat-out get left out of discussions they belong in. Like prog-rock. I can't remember how many times I'd meet music fans who claimed to love prog rock and named bands like Yes, King Crimson and ELP, but had never listened to Rush. I can't prove this, but I bet if you ran through every Rolling Stone interview in the past 37 years, you'd find that writers and musicians cited every prog band minus Rush more often than they included them in any discussion about that genre. I'll grant you that they had a big following in musician-oriented publications, as reflected in those Modern Drummer polls. But that's not really what I consider mainstream coverage.

Rush have just been outside of everything. They never quite fit in with anything else that was going on in music.
 
Top