The Old Drummers or the New Drummers?

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sticks4drums

Guest
I'm with sticks 100% on this. This guy is hugely important, whether people like it or not.

There's a strange stigma about Rush that people in the music world just don't want to deal with them or give them their due. I like what Billy Corgan said about them in Beyond The Lighted Stage, basically that the music press wrote endlessly about bands like The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Led Zep, etc., but never gave the time of day to Rush. But as Billy went on to point out, when history looks back on rock bands, Rush belongs in some of those conversations.

It's just never been "hip" to like Rush, which does nothing to diminish their impact. It's like nobody admitted they were listening to Rush back then, but lately a whole bunch of people have come out of the closet. Legions of musicians today cite the influence Rush and Neil Peart had on them. It's undeniable and inescapable. And if you haven't spent some time checking Neil out, it's your loss, IMO. What he did during those early years of Rush was unique and it's never been done as well as he did it, before or since.
God bless you! Coming from you they might listen. Very well said my friend.
 

moontheloon

Silver Member
God bless you! Coming from you they might listen. Very well said my friend.
I enjoyed Peart a lot in my younger years....always been a semi fan of Rush

but as my palate became more expanded his style started to sound very mechanical and stiff to me

even in the more recent years when he studied with Freddie Gruber his swing sounded very stale, dry , and even forced......and the swing section of his more recent solo is horrendous

I respect Neil Peart and everything he has done in the drumming community along with his influence on drummers......I also feel sympathy for a lot of the things he has gone through in his life and enjoyed his book very much

that being said......I dont put him near some of the greats mentioned in this thread as a player......as an influence ?...sure why not.....but as a player I dont think so

just my opinion

I have never heard Neil lay something down that made me say....damn thats nasty ....not once

Ive heard him fly around the kit and thought....well that was nice.....but he has never really had the feel that I desire to hear
 

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
I think Tony Williams is the greatest of all time.

But ya, old and new... Blakey and Morello from the 50s onwards, Elvin, Dannie Richmond, Purdie, Chris Pennie, ?ustlove, Brian Blade.
 

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
You must be the best drummer in the world, or deaf. Sorry. This makes no sense. Opinion or not.
It makes perfect sense. The first sentence in this post of yours makes no sense. You have to be the best drummer in the world or deaf to not be hugely moved by someones flow, phrasing or time feel? Sorry, that just doesn't follow. There are plenty of guys with great ears who just don't like the feel of certain top pro musicians.

"That's nasty" is an emotional response. "That's nice" was used as an appreciative one. They are different things. The former is pure opinion. It has nothing to do with making any objectively definitive statement on Neil's playing. He said "he has never really had the feel that I desire to hear ". To say that "makes no sense" is meaningless. It's saying absolutely nothing about his comment at allt.

If he said "Neil isn't technically accomplished" your post may have some merit. But he didn't. .
 

moontheloon

Silver Member
You must be the best drummer in the world, or deaf. Sorry. This makes no sense. Opinion or not.

makes no sense to you because you enjoy the stiff emotionless drumming of Peart.....

and what does my skill level have to do with not enjoying the mechanical feel of Neil Peart?

its not my problem that you have mediocre taste in drummers.....

.this guy is way overrated and his talent level has been over blown forever.....he is a fine player....technically he is a good player.......but thats about it

I enjoy some of the music of Rush....but never understood the love affair with the man behind the kit.........

to me drumming is about feel, flow , and expressing your emotion on the kit......I hear none of that from Neil....I hear mechanical stiff and sometimes even juvenile playing

again....my opinion

my apologies if I offend the Neil Peart fan club.....but this guy is not all his legend has built him up to be

and my hearing is just fine .... excellent actually
 

dmacc_2

Well-known member
This was my biggest influence growing up and still is today. I know I am going to get hammered for this. Sorry guys.
Not hammered from me. Actually, if you read my post, I mentioned him.

He's a living legacy within the genre and he still plays his but off. In fact, Rush is the only rock band today I'd pay money to see.

I'm just not inspired much by Rush music as much as I was back in the day, though I still listen to it.

You can't be right or wrong on this thread. It's impossible.
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
makes no sense to you because you enjoy the stiff emotionless drumming of Peart.....

and what does my skill level have to do with not enjoying the mechanical feel of Neil Peart?

its not my problem that you have mediocre taste in drummers.....

.this guy is way overrated and his talent level has been over blown forever.....he is a fine player....technically he is a good player.......but thats about it

I enjoy some of the music of Rush....but never understood the love affair with the man behind the kit.........

to me drumming is about feel, flow , and expressing your emotion on the kit......I hear none of that from Neil....I hear mechanical stiff and sometimes even juvenile playing

again....my opinion

my apologies if I offend the Neil Peart fan club.....but this guy is not all his legend has built him up to be

and my hearing is just fine .... excellent actually
Why do I bother. You must be right. Have a nice day.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Hey Polly, that the good think about this thraed, it will make you discover new guys, new styles, you mentioned Sol Amarfio, so I will check him out...
But don't you DARE be influenced by him - I'm not sharing! :)


Where were you guys in the 80's. How could he not influence you even if you didn't like RUSH in capital letters. :) This guy could and still can drum. You are missing out people. They do get Drummer Magazine in other parts of the world, don't they. :)
I'm with sticks 100% on this. This guy is hugely important, whether people like it or not.
It's well-documented that many drummers think Neil (and Travis, Joey etc) are the ant's pants and these players have obviously had a big influence. I did not leave NP out of my list for spite or hipness or stigma - it's simply a truthful list of drummers who influenced me and NP isn't one of them.

Even when I was young a friend tried to turn me onto Rush but it struck me as garden-variety prog and it didn't appeal to me. I found some other prog bands much more interesting and enjoyable.

Have you ever seen a person who is good looking but there's something about them that's "not my type"? In drumming terms NP is "good looking" but he's not my type. On the other hand, sometimes an ugly person will press the right buttons for you. So I have a few "ugly" drummers in my list and don't include some "attractive" drummers.

I can hardly change my list of influences because a drummer is "important" or even a "good player". Influences are just that; they're not "best of" lists. For me, I'm less influenced by drummers' beats and chops than their ideas, the moods they evoke, their sounds and use of space, the way their approach the groove, and the way they interact with the rest of the band. I mean, let's face it ... me being influenced by Bill Bruford? It would seem absurd, but I like his use of high, clear voices in his kit, his non linear approach to kit setup and beat displacements etc.
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
You do? There seemed to be no effort, or any sort of responsibility for your claims, involved in your previous comment. Or this one, for that matter.
It was so nice on here the other day and now this. Why are there certain people on these sites that want to wreck this experience for me.
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
It was so nice on here the other day and now this. Why are there certain people on these sites that want to wreck this experience for me.
I don't want to wreck the experience for you, you're ruining it for yourself.

Moontheloon stated that he doesn't particularly enjoy the music of Neil Peart. This is what's called an opinion that just happens to contradict your opinion. As a result, you turn around and actively insult him with an ad hominem attack on his ability. Sorry, that's not debating, that's just insulting another poster because they disagree with you. It's small wonder that when you insult people they feel inclined to fire a rebuttal.

What Moontheloon said makes perfect sense; just not to you because you're clearly deluded by your love of a man you've never met.
 

dmacc_2

Well-known member
But don't you DARE be influenced by him - I'm not sharing! :)

It's well-documented that many drummers think Neil (and Travis, Joey etc) are the ant's pants and these players have obviously had a big influence. I did not leave NP out of my list for spite or hipness or stigma - it's simply a truthful list of drummers who influenced me and NP isn't one of them.

Even when I was young a friend tried to turn me onto Rush but it struck me as garden-variety prog and it didn't appeal to me. I found some other prog bands much more interesting and enjoyable.

Have you ever seen a person who is good looking but there's something about them that's "not my type"? In drumming terms NP is "good looking" but he's not my type. On the other hand, sometimes an ugly person will press the right buttons for you. So I have a few "ugly" drummers in my list and don't include some "attractive" drummers.

I can hardly change my list of influences because a drummer is "important" or even a "good player". Influences are just that; they're not "best of" lists. For me, I'm less influenced by drummers' beats and chops than their ideas, the moods they evoke, their sounds and use of space, the way their approach the groove, and the way they interact with the rest of the band. I mean, let's face it ... me being influenced by Bill Bruford? It would seem absurd, but I like his use of high, clear voices in his kit, his non linear approach to kit setup and beat displacements etc.
Well stated Poly.

You know I at one time could not listen to Bill Bruford for more than 2 measures. Then about 6 years ago he brought his latest Earthworks lineup to a local club and I gambled and went.

I was completely impressed by him and his band - even to purchase his Footloose & Fancy Free cd and listen to it from time to time.

Would I list him as an influence? Heck no, no way and no how though. Just saying that I did gain some interest in his latest playing. His rock playing and even Earthworks prior to this album to me were nothing short of flat.
 

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
It was so nice on here the other day and now this. Why are there certain people on these sites that want to wreck this experience for me.
I don't want to wreck your experience here.

I will however disagree with you and point it out when you make insulting personal attacks and claims based on someones taste.

And you haven't even bothered to reply to ANYTHING that anyone said, but you respond and attack us anyway. And we're the ones trying to wreck your experience? Sorry bro. I just commented on things that were actually said.
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Well stated Poly.

You know I at one time could not listen to Bill Bruford for more than 2 measures. Then about 6 years ago he brought his latest Earthworks lineup to a local club and I gambled and went.

I was completely impressed by him and his band - even to purchase his Footloose & Fancy Free cd and listen to it from time to time.

Would I list him as an influence? Heck no, no way and no how though. Just saying that I did gain some interest in his latest playing. His rock playing and even Earthworks prior to this album to me were nothing short of flat.
And here's an analogue for me.

I love Bill Bruford and he's certainly there in my influences. I just don't have a problem with dmacc's initial statement about Bruford's music because I can see what he means if I were to think from a position other than my own.

Have I insulted dmacc because I disagree with him? Not at all. I might suggest that if he wants to listen to Bruford at his best he listen to 'Larks' Tongues in Aspic' and see what he thinks then but that's not saying he's wrong, it's just a listening suggestion.
 

dmacc_2

Well-known member
And here's an analogue for me.

I love Bill Bruford and he's certainly there in my influences. I just don't have a problem with dmacc's initial statement about Bruford's music because I can see what he means if I were to think from a position other than my own.

Have I insulted dmacc because I disagree with him? Not at all. I might suggest that if he wants to listen to Bruford at his best he listen to 'Larks' Tongues in Aspic' and see what he thinks then but that's not saying he's wrong, it's just a listening suggestion.
Well stated and thanks for the tip on the album. I will indeed check it out!

To me opinion differences is what makes music and drumming diverse and fabulous. It would be really, really, really boring if everyone came from the same place musically.

Music is a giant melting pot and in reality we may be influenced by more than what we give credit to as the drummers we listen to for inspiration may not have expressed (verbally or otherwise) their influences.

You know what? I wish I could play as well as most of these people listed, including the ones I did not list personally.
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
Anyways, like I said, Neil Peart was and is my greatest influence.
 

tard

Gold Member
Not to change the subject, but I am anyway...lol, Hes not one of my influences as the Dave Mathews Band is not my particular cup of tea musically, but as a drummer I think Carter Beauford deserves a mention.
 
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