Superbowl Halftime - Zak Starkey

mrchattr

Gold Member
Can anyone actually point to clips where Zak was off from what you heard? I have watched twice now and not seen one example of it. Bermuda even said he slowed it down and didn't see any.

Also, anyone who has ever run sound will tell you that, from a technical standpoint, it's the same work to get Pete and Roger to be heard live (which wrong notes prove they were) as to get everyone live, as the Super Bowl promised it would be. The mix was rough, the drummer and bass player both always lined up perfectly with what we heard...and yet people STILL refuse to believe this was live? Really?!?!?!
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Can anyone actually point to clips where Zak was off from what you heard?
Here are the spots that made me raise an eyebrow:
-3:20 two 16ths on the snare can be seen and not heard.
-3:26 clearly out of sync on the snare.
-4:16 "I pick up my guitar and I play" the word "play" sounds like a strong snare/crash combo, but he isn't hitting the snare...
-4:23 looks an awful lot like he's playing a fill that doesn't square with what I'm hearing.
-5:47 I just noticed in impromptu last ending rough on the toms that was almost completely inaudible - oops!

Just 5 that I thought looked/sounded very questionable, there were other minor things where I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not saying that that isn't Zak on the recording, I'm just not sure that that's the performance of it. To learn one's own parts well enough to drum along doesn't seem that far-fetched to me - I do it all the time (in my living room, that is!).
 
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caddywumpus

Platinum Member
Here are the spots that made me raise an eyebrow:
-3:20 two 16ths on the snare can be seen and not heard.
-3:26 clearly out of sync on the snare.
-4:16 "I pick up my guitar and I play" the word "play" sounds like a strong snare/crash combo, but he isn't hitting the snare...
-4:23 looks an awful lot like he's playing a fill that doesn't square with what I'm hearing.
-5:47 I just noticed in impromptu list ending rough on the topms that was almost completely inaudible - oops!

Just 5 that I thought looked/sounded very questionable, there were other minor things where I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not saying that that isn't Zak on the recording, I'm just not sure that that's the performance of it. To learn one's own parts well enough to drum along doesn't seem that far-fetched to me - I do it all the time (in my living room, that is!).
I'm in agreement that the track was pre-recorded. I mean, the SuperBowl is a BIG DEAL, and especially with that synced-up light show...they can't afford to speed up or slow down a single iota! There had to be at least SOME pre-recorded track to sync up with the "hits" of the light show. There is enough evidence in the video such as "seen-not-heard" and "heard-not-seen" and "what-I-just-heard-is-not-what-I-just-saw-him-play" moments. And...when (it looks like) he drops his stick at 3:25?: THAT is why the tracks are pre-recorded!

After watching the video under careful scrutiny, I'm of the opinion that only the original members of The Who actually performed live. Zak wasn't "air-drumming"--he was actually drumming, probably to his own tracks, but you can't hear him of course, because he's in a huge stadium and the music is blasting over the mains!
 

LinearDrummer

Silver Member
To me something was definitely not right...seemed pre-recorded and the drumming had a fakeness to it. Also Pete was screwing up...

Zak Starkey I'm sure is a fine drummer but I really want to see someone with some passion and more of an edge, pushing the band like Moon did.

I think someone like Pridgen would have been perfect for that band. His wildness, taking chances, pushing his licks to the limit IMO is a better fit.
 

MisterMixelpix

Silver Member
Pre-recorded or not, there are two undeniable facts:

1) The only two original members are old and they just plain can't pull it off any more.

2) Half of the band + playing a medley of OLD songs = Who Cover Band.

They were The Whom.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I think someone like Pridgen would have been perfect for that band. His wildness, taking chances, pushing his licks to the limit IMO is a better fit.
Dude, what're you thinking?? You trying to finish off the last two? :D (I agree, though)
 
N

nhzoso

Guest
That was embarrassing, Man they should just hang it up if they are going to go down like that.

Singing sukked, music was horrible. Only thing good was the light show, and the fact it was a short set.
 

mrchattr

Gold Member
Here are the spots that made me raise an eyebrow:
-3:20 two 16ths on the snare can be seen and not heard.
-3:26 clearly out of sync on the snare.
-4:16 "I pick up my guitar and I play" the word "play" sounds like a strong snare/crash combo, but he isn't hitting the snare...
-4:23 looks an awful lot like he's playing a fill that doesn't square with what I'm hearing.
-5:47 I just noticed in impromptu last ending rough on the toms that was almost completely inaudible - oops!

Just 5 that I thought looked/sounded very questionable, there were other minor things where I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not saying that that isn't Zak on the recording, I'm just not sure that that's the performance of it. To learn one's own parts well enough to drum along doesn't seem that far-fetched to me - I do it all the time (in my living room, that is!).
- 3:20 - The stick clearly bounces and looks like it could go down for a second hit...you can't see the actual snare, so you can't be sure, but if you watch the hand, it looks like he's using a double stroke.
- 3:26 - Again, he is right with what is heard. It looks like he starts to drop his left stick, but recovers, and the rest lines up perfectly.
- 4:16 - I got nothing. I see him clearly hit a different crash, but I am hearing the snare drum and seeing him hit the tom. You can argue that this could just be how the tom sounded or whatever, but that's a pretty tough argument to make.
- 4:23 - If you slow it down, it lines up perfectly, he's just moving too fast for you to tell (diddles, etc) in a crappy quality YouTube video.
5:47 - Yeah, you are right about this one. However, it's possible that the soundguy had already started muting channels, etc, for moving the stage. That is not uncommon at all at events like this.

So really, when it's all slowed down and stuff, the only evidence is there is ONE snare hit where he hit his tom, but it sounds like snare (which is hard to explain, but there may be a reason), and then a muted ending which is not uncommon. Add that to the fact that the entire performance, with all the speed-ups, slow-downs, and complex fills (which I know he improvises on at normal shows...it's not the same fills every night) lined up accurately, and I would say it's hard to argue that it wasn't live. I mean, that's a lot of stuff to memorize exactly. It is possible...and I'm not really a big fan of the Who or anything...I just hate the cynicism that I see so much nowadays.

I will say this...if it was pre-recorded, then I'm actually MORE impressed with Zak for being able to play along flawlessly, through tempo changes and everything, and only have one noticable mistake, which was just hitting the wrong drum.
 

TTNW

Pioneer Member
Zak's playing was the certainly the highlight of this show. I'm not a fan of his cymbal sound with his rides and crashes being all those washy Ks. As Zildjian calls it his "Wall of Sound" cymbal set up.

In an arena environment they didn't cut very well and his ride was lost in the mix.

I give him a lot of credit for being able to pull it off because these type of performances are notorious for having monitoring issues and that he could even hear himself playing was probably a miracle.

I thought he was channeling Keith Moon quite well.

Did anybody else notice the last second of the closing song where he didn't play the closing crash (because he was late) and he just hit his sticks together?
 

mrh

Member
MIkeM said:
-5:47 I just noticed in impromptu last ending rough on the toms that was almost completely inaudible - oops!
I heard it. It wasnt very loud, but it was there.

While I agree watching it again I can see that it wasnt their best performance, I really enjoyed it when I saw it live. And even if it was prerecorded, then as was previously mentioned, Zack did an even better job lining everything up perfectly and only have a small handful of questionable spots where he may or may not have lined what he was playing up with the track perfectly.
 

ddocimo

Junior Member
That was embarrassing, Man they should just hang it up if they are going to go down like that.

Singing sukked, music was horrible. Only thing good was the light show, and the fact it was a short set.
oh come on, that was a quality show by a quality band, have you played a Super Bowl?
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
At about 4:00 you could see his right hand bass drum reso head moving. He was at least kicking something.
 

Pavlos

Senior Member
oh come on, that was a quality show by a quality band, have you played a Super Bowl?
I don't think criticism is saying anyone could do better, it's more a comparison with how they used to be. At one time the Who was the greatest live band on the planet imo, and to see them up there with two members like moon and entwhistle gone and the other two looking quite geriatric is depressing.

It's like watching an athlete way past their prime try to keep competing and not being able to do what they once did. Aging is just part of life, so at least try to do it gracefully.
 

mrchattr

Gold Member
oh come on, that was a quality show by a quality band, have you played a Super Bowl?
There were more bad notes from guitars and vocals than my guitarist and vocalists make in a 3 or 4 hour show...at the end of the day, it just wasn't a great musical performance. Quality show? No. Quality band? Yup. Have I played a Super Bowl? Nope, but that doesn't mean it was a good show...go back and watch Janet Jackson or some of the other Super Bowl halftimes.
 

lukeP

Junior Member
i don't know, but his cymbals were sooooooo sexy.

did anyone see pete miss his windmill strum? LOL


at least they didn't lipsync like everyone else in popular music does during shows these days.
 
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