Stave vs Steambent

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
MotleyH, Andy thanks for your time. I understand all of this and was just wondering about all of the various ply types produced by DW as to if they really made a difference. So thanks to the gurus, and the Guru.
 

Astropath

Member
Ha Ha Ha!!
Yes, I think GURU and my friend Jeff at Carolina Drumworks both make superb drums. I just received my Steambent Curly Cherry from Jeff at Drumworks and it is everything and More than what I had hoped for. I love the craftsmanship and the quality both put into their craft. These are the kind of guys who put a little of their souls into each drum. Maybe a Stave from Guru is next?!!

Here's my Curly Cherry 6.5 X 14:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1V0C9jWSWE

Just wish he had held that gorgeous drum up to the camera to show folks how beautiful the drum is!!
 

Deathmetalconga

Platinum Member
But the biggest problem with plywood, in my opinion, is that different pieces of woods, often from different boards or even trees, usually running in different directions, cause interference with sound transmission by breaking up the coherence of parallel grain structure.
Yes, that is true. Be that as it may, ply drums can still sound terrific.

There's nothing comparable to non-ply wood drums. I've played some stave kits and I am blessed with a solid shell wood kit. There is nothing like the sound of natural whole wood drums.
 

Cameo

Gold Member
Where can you buy, like Keller shells, Stave and Steambent shells? I know Vaughncraft has some.
 

GrooveSuperfly

Senior Member
Sorry to disagree with you but her's the ultimate.
http://www.gurudrumworks.co.uk/
They may be great, ( and may-be better - I never play on those snares) .
They are looking WONDERFUL, and I gues, sound as well too :) -



But the Holly Grail among the drums is Holow log drumshell curved out of trunk from a few hundred years old tree.
As my Antonio True Solid (Elm) Shell snare,(holow-log) that I get/receive yesterday:





 
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GrooveSuperfly

Senior Member
There is nothing like the sound of natural whole wood drums.


+1.
Agree.



I spoke ( e-mail ) with Antonio yesterday, when I got my snare , and I have to wait 4 to 5 month for my toms to be finnished!!!
And for kick a few more.
So in the authum 2012 I will be too blessed with whole true wood set !!!
 
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keep it simple

Platinum Member
They may be great, ( and may-be better - I never play on those snares) .
They are looking WONDERFUL, and I gues, sound as well too :) -



But the Holly Grail among the drums is Holow log drumshell curved out of trunk from a few hundred years old tree.
As my ALM Antonio snare,(holow-log) that I get/receive yesterday:
The grain & colour on your snare is absolutely delicious! What timber species is that?

My experience with hollow log drums is that it's a hit or miss scenario. You just don't know how it will sound until you've built it. That's not an issue for the customer, as a good builder will reject examples that don't sound good, but it sure is a risk for the builder. As with any natural material, there's nothing linear about the structure. On a hollow log, that means selecting a part of the tree that has an even grain structure, density, & direction around the shell. If the shell's structure is uneven, it won't resonate nearly as well as one that has an even structure. This is why very hard & dense woods usually make the best hollow log drums, & also why stave is used to get an almost identical voice but with the benefit of consistency around the shell.

Anyhow, I'm really looking forward to seeing your full set when it arrives. Very special drums to cherish over a lifetime.
 

GrooveSuperfly

Senior Member
The grain & colour on your snare is absolutely delicious! What timber species is that?

.
Oh, sorry. Elm ( Alm in Sweidish).

I cant tell how "good" hollow log sound - I have not yet discover / test how mine is sounding. Since I never play a holow drum before , so I did not have another holow drums to compare with either.
And Elm is completly new material/wood, for me, when it comes to drums.
But the little I have tried it so far ( today) ....

1- Unsualy sound. Can not explain better.
2- Seems to be very responisv.
3 -Not at all rings ( overtone.. you said like that??) as "ordinary" wood snare use to have. Much more "wooden" sound , aschh... I can not find rigth words. But I have not yet try to tune it higher or lower...
4.- Warm. Unusaly warm.
5- Badge is not "oval" as snare :-( . Since its "flat" , its not attached 100% to the shell on the edges.You can see it on the pictures, that there is a little space between badge and shell.
Acctualy, nothing to get angry for. I can "press" it round , "back", to the shell, to get it "oval" as the shell. But that was something I see at the first secont I was looking at the snare.

But I have to play it more to see what it goes for.
 
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Astropath

Member
Oh, sorry. Elm ( Alm in Sweidish).

I cant tell how "good" hollow log sound - I have not yet discover / test how mine is sounding. Since I never play a holow drum before , so I did not have another holow drums to compare with either.
And Elm is completly new material/wood, for me, when it comes to drums.
But the little I have tried it so far ( today) ....

1- Unsualy sound. Can not explain better.
2- Seems to be very responisv.
3 -Not at all rings ( overtone.. you said like that??) as "ordinary" wood snare use to have. Much more "wooden" sound , aschh... I can not find rigth words. But I have not yet try to tune it higher or lower...
4.- Warm. Unusaly warm.
5- Badge is not "oval" as snare :-( . Since its "flat" , its not attached 100% to the shell on the edges.You can see it on the pictures, that there is a little space between badge and shell.
Acctualy, nothing to get angry for. I can "press" it round , "back", to the shell, to get it "oval" as the shell. But that was something I see at the first secont I was looking at the snare.

But I have to play it more to see what it goes for.

It looks like Zelkova to me which is in the Elm family. Here is a Canopus solid shell Zelkova snare for comparison:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canopus-14-x-6-5-Zelkova-Solid-Snare-Drum-/190567100979?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5eaf3233
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Groove, that is the best looking snare I have seen. And I have seen a few. Can not wait to see the whole kit. WOW.
 

GrooveSuperfly

Senior Member
It looks like Zelkova to me which is in the Elm family. Here is a Canopus solid shell Zelkova snare for comparison:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canopus-14-x-6-5-Zelkova-Solid-Snare-Drum-/190567100979?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5eaf3233
I hade no idea that Elm and Zelkova ( sibirian wood ) was cousins...?

I tryed to find more about Elm drums on internet, but I could NOT FIND ANYTHING. There is a snare, Mapex Elm, but just outer ply is Elm. And I find that most europian Elm is almost dead everywhere , by some illnes called "Deutch Elm DissIes " or something like that.

Antonio was explaying to me that Elm si, when it come to sound, something between birtch and walnut.
I know how birtch sound,,,
I know how Walnut is looking like...
And nothing more.

But I read somewhere that Antonio is use to go out in forrest with a hammer, and knock on the woods before he decited wiitch one he will use for drums. And then thye have to drie in several years.
 

GrooveSuperfly

Senior Member
Groove, that is the best looking snare I have seen. And I have seen a few. Can not wait to see the whole kit. WOW.
Thank.
And I can hardley wait to receive my set too. He think that my 3 toms will be finnish about 4-5 month from today...
And kick few month after toms.

I tried snare more today. I have not test tune it , I just play little on it.

Its responiv .

But I could not find any sweetspot... strange. Snare sound allmost the same, if I hit it on the edge or in the middle, losser, harder, hard.... Very unuslay... I still do not know what to think about that...? Good - bad?

But rolls --- wowww, I did not know that I was SO GOOD?!?! They just work...!!!

Another think i find out prety soon, thats its loud. Very loud.On a another way. When I hit rimshots, there was a sound I did not expected, . it was DEEP and Loud sound, BUT without a typical CRACK that made s snare cutting througt. ( I like "crack" ). Instead I get something like a deep bottom. Loud, bottom. And I feels like snare can give more than that... like when you are trying a new STRONG amplifier.. you turn it up to 50% volyme... and a redy to blow windows... and its powerful... but you do not feel you aproach max... there is more to give. You almost not dare to turn it upp more. That was feeling when I hit snare hard, rimshots. Like ther is MUCH MORE to go.. It feels like you can hit it hardest you can, blow heads, but snare can take it all.
But no "typical" Crack ?!?
I must try it when gig with my band to find out if that volume , without crack I am use to, is enought to cut throu.

And allmost NO rings att all. Nice, No needs for tape or moongel.

Its not like snare I had before, any of it: Pearl Piccolo,GeorgeWay, Camco, Cravitoto, Supraphonics, Premier AceRoyal, Premier 2000, Ludwig Hamdhammred Bronze, 3 ply Ludwig snares, usaly and unusaly standard Tama, Pearl, Premier snares... It something... different. I guess I have to use to it, try to tune it upp and down.
 

keep it simple

Platinum Member
Thank.
And I can hardley wait to receive my set too. He think that my 3 toms will be finnish about 4-5 month from today...
And kick few month after toms.

I tried snare more today. I have not test tune it , I just play little on it.

Its responiv .

But I could not find any sweetspot... strange. Snare sound allmost the same, if I hit it on the edge or in the middle, losser, harder, hard.... Very unuslay... I still do not know what to think about that...? Good - bad?

But rolls --- wowww, I did not know that I was SO GOOD?!?! They just work...!!!

Another think i find out prety soon, thats its loud. Very loud.On a another way. When I hit rimshots, there was a sound I did not expected, . it was DEEP and Loud sound, BUT without a typical CRACK that made s snare cutting througt. ( I like "crack" ). Instead I get something like a deep bottom. Loud, bottom. And I feels like snare can give more than that... like when you are trying a new STRONG amplifier.. you turn it up to 50% volyme... and a redy to blow windows... and its powerful... but you do not feel you aproach max... there is more to give. You almost not dare to turn it upp more. That was feeling when I hit snare hard, rimshots. Like ther is MUCH MORE to go.. It feels like you can hit it hardest you can, blow heads, but snare can take it all.
But no "typical" Crack ?!?
I must try it when gig with my band to find out if that volume , without crack I am use to, is enought to cut throu.

And allmost NO rings att all. Nice, No needs for tape or moongel.

Its not like snare I had before, any of it: Pearl Piccolo,GeorgeWay, Camco, Cravitoto, Supraphonics, Premier AceRoyal, Premier 2000, Ludwig Hamdhammred Bronze, 3 ply Ludwig snares, usaly and unusaly standard Tama, Pearl, Premier snares... It something... different. I guess I have to use to it, try to tune it upp and down.
What you're describing is pretty much what I would expect. The basic characteristics are the same as thick shell stave in a softer wood. The lack of sweet spot is more down to thickness than anything else. The bottom head sensitivity comes from the unmolested vertical grain transferring vibrations directly from the batter head to the reso head. You should notice that especially at lower volumes. The same mechanism is giving you a lot of body in your rimshots. You can get these drums to crack, but you should be using a fairly thin head & high tuning. You'll lose some body in the sound, but you will increase the cut. At the same time, you'll get some higher overtones coming through to give it a bit more life. I'm guessing the batter head bearing edge isn't too sharp. That will also give you more shell tone & a slight muffling affect.

Sounds nice, very nice! Have fun with you're experimentation.

As for the rest of the kit, do you want a similar focussed sound from your other drums, especially the toms? Maybe a good idea to discuss shell thickness & bearing edges with your builder. Those two factors make a very big difference to the way your drums respond, & your builder will be able to describe the options available to you.

Have fun!!!
 

GrooveSuperfly

Senior Member
You can get these drums to crack, but you should be using a fairly thin head & high tuning.
I have not tune a snare at all, and tesnion on heads was pretty losse ( l guess between loose - and medium tuning). Thats how they waswhen snare arrive.

I use to tune my snare high, both over and reso heads.
On not so deep snares, (14x5,5) I sometimes tune reso head to medium, to get some more deep/body. Still high on batter side.

It´s coated Evans on batter side. I didnt check out reso side.

I was after playing thinkig what should happen if I tune upp reso head..? ( Ghostones must start to played by them selfs !!!! ). Thats what I am going to try tomorow.

As for the rest of the kit, do you want a similar focussed sound from your other drums, especially the toms? Maybe a good idea to discuss shell thickness & bearing edges with your builder. Those two factors make a very big difference to the way your drums respond, & your builder will be able to describe the options available to you.
I get a few drums recoring ( without any EQ, Compressor, Reverb ) from Antonio, and one other guys who allreday have a set, simmilar to that I have order,i toms have a very-very punchy and foused sound. A ring for a hours with high tuning,... With low tuning they produce a very deep tone 14"x 12,5" tom 12,5" = deep) sound allmost( or better said- AS) like my 18"x18" L.A. Camco floortom. But, within that low-tuning, they produce more "normal" ring, not so long as with high tuning.

What angle on bearingedges would you sugges?
I acctualy never ask him about the thickness for the set. What should you recomendation be?
Snare thicness is 5 mm and rerings 15mm.

Here is , not so good (live from tv studio) soundclip on other black/painted Antonio drums :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pfnu5pnx0s
and here: ( arund 7:00 more toms)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVKXmbVXxJo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
 
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