Some problems??!!!!!

Lars

Junior Member
Hi guys,

I play drums for three years, and i start to play a pop band...i cover some metallica, gun's n roses, and Joe Satriani songs, now...i want to creat my rythm, my fills but i have some problems...i don't know about song structure, when and where i need fills, what is the best fills in song like eight note or sixteen note or triplet and etc...I need some helps..

excuse me for some mistake in writing and grammer language
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Since you admitted you don't know song structure, and when you need fills, what is the best fills etc...

When you go to school, you don't start at the 8th grade. If you don't know when a fill is needed, you have a long way to go before you start attempting them. Besides, drum fills...are much further down the list than other, more important skills. These will likely sound "boring" to you. I hope you get just how important the stuff below is.

Having a sense of the proper tempo, which roughly translates to feel. Could be the single hardest thing there is.
Keeping that tempo rock steady amidst the verses, choruses, bridges, solos etc...2nd hardest thing, maybe even the hardest thing
Your inter-kit dynamics (good strong kick foot, nice strong backbeat, making sure the ride cymbal isn't played too overbearingly in relation to the rest of the kit)
Knowing when NOT to do stuff. Means avoiding amateur pitfalls.
Knowing the role of the drumset in your preferred type of music, very important. You can't compare the role of the drumset to any other instrument. You are there for everyone else to rely on. You are not a lead player. You're a grunt in a way. You are there to make it easy for the others, make the song move along, keep time for everyone, and make the song feel like it's supposed to, and be able to step up with the right skills and execution when the song needs some harder drumming. It's not to showcase your fills lol. Fills should be a very small percentage of the drumming in one song, generally speaking. There's always exceptions, especially in metal, which IMO, has a set of drumming rules that don't really apply outside of metal.

But yeah, I'd say forget the fills for now, really. Fills should come naturally anyway. You are not even in the proper place to start applying them. In fact, it's probably a bad idea for you to focus on them right now. Waste of your time. You have to learn the alphabet before you begin making words, let alone sentences. So learn your basics. They aren't really basic at all, that word is most detrimental IMO. People think they have basics down when they really don't. And it dogs them with every note they play. Don't be like that. Put your time in like everybody else. Understand what the role of the drumset is in your band.

Don't even worry, after you're comfortable playing drums, and comfortable with the song forms, like I said, you shouldn't even have to think about your fills too much, they just come out. The fact that you asked what the best fills are clearly shows where you are in the journey. That's like saying, what is the best sentence? Depends on the context, right? Trust me, you are looking WAY too far down the road for your own good.

The "normal" places for fills are right before transition points. Verse to chorus...chorus to bridge, chorus to solo, solo to verse...at transitional points in the song. You shouldn't be filling when someone else is "speaking" (with exceptions, there's always exceptions)
 
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MaryO

Platinum Member
I don't know what the OP thinks of your answer but it's just the kick in the pants I needed right now, Larry. I get inpatiient and ready to move on from the basics but reading this has set me back in my place :). Great advice! Now if you'll excuse me I have to turn on my click and practice my paradiddles and basic grooves some more!
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I don't know what the OP thinks of your answer but it's just the kick in the pants I needed right now, Larry. I get inpatiient and ready to move on from the basics but reading this has set me back in my place :). Great advice! Now if you'll excuse me I have to turn on my click and practice my paradiddles and basic grooves some more!
Cool Mary. The masters will tell you, practice deeply, not broadly. It really is the fastest way to move forward. People don't realize...if you take the time to master just one easy thing...every other part of your drumming benefits. Truly, it does. Whereas if you skip around from one area to another quickly, without really putting the time in, it doesn't stick, it doesn't improve every other part of your drumming, and you just basically wasted the time you spent practicing.

Mary, I'm still doing 40 beats a minute to a met, 1 stroke per click. It's been about 5 months now. I do it for 1 hour at a sitting, then after that's done I practice what I feel like....to the met of course. That one stupid exercise has benefited every aspect of my drumming. Very noticeably benefited me.

Practice deep not broad. It's the fastest way. Slow is fast. It's backwards.
 

AndyMC

Senior Member
I personally think that good drummers go through a stage where first they start learning the basics and get a beat going then they want to do a million fills/ whatever and be impressive. But after awhile they realize it is all about the groove and that even playing a basic rock beat can get intense if you really get into it. Learn to love the basics, they are most of what you'll be doing anyways, and played well you will see why everyone uses them and why drummers like Steve Gadd get the big bucks to play them with real feel.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
An early pitfall is thinking you have something all the way, when you have no idea what all the way is. Like the money beat. Simple right? In concept yes. 8ths on hat, quarters on kick, snare on 2 and 4. But you can get very deep into that one simple beat. There's a hundred different ways to play it. But a lot of guys won't spend much time on it, because it's so easy. Not their fault, really, they just don't realize it yet.

When practicing, even when you think you "have it"....just keep going with it. You'll be pleasantly surprised at just how much is waiting there to find.
Americans especially are being raised to have zero attention span. To ask young people to do one thing for an hour straight is asking a lot it seems. But that's exactly what a musical instrument takes. Repetition repetition repetition. Then some more repetititon. Now that you're warmed up, it's time to start your repetitions. That's what I'm talking about. There's much freedom in repetition, it's not a dirty word. In fact it's the doorway to your goals. It teaches focus. Focus is one powerful weapon.
 

Lars

Junior Member
Since you admitted you don't know song structure, and when you need fills, what is the best fills etc...

When you go to school, you don't start at the 8th grade. If you don't know when a fill is needed, you have a long way to go before you start attempting them. Besides, drum fills...are much further down the list than other, more important skills. These will likely sound "boring" to you. I hope you get just how important the stuff below is.

Having a sense of the proper tempo, which roughly translates to feel. Could be the single hardest thing there is.
Keeping that tempo rock steady amidst the verses, choruses, bridges, solos etc...2nd hardest thing, maybe even the hardest thing
Your inter-kit dynamics (good strong kick foot, nice strong backbeat, making sure the ride cymbal isn't played too overbearingly in relation to the rest of the kit)
Knowing when NOT to do stuff. Means avoiding amateur pitfalls.
Knowing the role of the drumset in your preferred type of music, very important. You can't compare the role of the drumset to any other instrument. You are there for everyone else to rely on. You are not a lead player. You're a grunt in a way. You are there to make it easy for the others, make the song move along, keep time for everyone, and make the song feel like it's supposed to, and be able to step up with the right skills and execution when the song needs some harder drumming. It's not to showcase your fills lol. Fills should be a very small percentage of the drumming in one song, generally speaking. There's always exceptions, especially in metal, which IMO, has a set of drumming rules that don't really apply outside of metal.

But yeah, I'd say forget the fills for now, really. Fills should come naturally anyway. You are not even in the proper place to start applying them. In fact, it's probably a bad idea for you to focus on them right now. Waste of your time. You have to learn the alphabet before you begin making words, let alone sentences. So learn your basics. They aren't really basic at all, that word is most detrimental IMO. People think they have basics down when they really don't. And it dogs them with every note they play. Don't be like that. Put your time in like everybody else. Understand what the role of the drumset is in your band.

Don't even worry, after you're comfortable playing drums, and comfortable with the song forms, like I said, you shouldn't even have to think about your fills too much, they just come out. The fact that you asked what the best fills are clearly shows where you are in the journey. That's like saying, what is the best sentence? Depends on the context, right? Trust me, you are looking WAY too far down the road for your own good.

The "normal" places for fills are right before transition points. Verse to chorus...chorus to bridge, chorus to solo, solo to verse...at transitional points in the song. You shouldn't be filling when someone else is "speaking" (with exceptions, there's always exceptions)
thanx a lot Larry to advise me and your best answer...i don't go to school for learning drums, i play three books like drum method by Louis Bellson, Realistic Rock by Carmine Appice and Creative coordination for the performing drums by Keith Copeland.
what do you means alphabet? is this a way to creat my own rythm, fills...etc?
 

THC

Senior Member
I don't know what the OP thinks of your answer but it's just the kick in the pants I needed right now, Larry. I get inpatiient and ready to move on from the basics but reading this has set me back in my place :). Great advice! Now if you'll excuse me I have to turn on my click and practice my paradiddles and basic grooves some more!
+1

Very inspirational Larry.

I agree with the comments on the money beat. It's fairly easy to get 8ths on hat, quarters on kick, snare on 2 and 4 going, but to make it sound good, to get it right there in the pocket where it makes you want to move your body , and then keep it going for 5-10 minutes in perfect time is a whole different story, and that's not even worrying about transitioning in an out of fills. I'm not quite there yet myself. Maybe not even close yet.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
There is a time for playing and a time for practice.

Dont get too hung up on thinking you have to do so many hours of this and so many hours of that before you can play.

Play in a band as soon as you can, and enjoy. That is what being a musician is about.

Practice other stuff on your own and "listen" to what you are doing. If you have any feel for rhythm/music you will know when you have played a fill in the wrong place, or indeed too many fills.

Start simple and build from there. Play the basic groove in a song without any fills. When you know the song inside out, and by that I mean the melody, vocals, bass, listen for the transition between verses, chorus, middle eight. When you can feel these coming up, without counting, then you can place a fill to bridge the music from one part to another.

It may sound weird to say feel the changes but that is what all blues players do, they do not need to count the 12 bar.
 
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