Shuffled 8th notes and swung 8th notes

jornthedrummer

Silver Member
No, that's a "half shuffle". Do you know the origins of that?

Back in the 1950's Little Richard took Charles Connor to the train station and said "I want my music to sound like that" and then the straight 8th Rock & Roll groove was born. (I interviewed him a few years back for a magazine and that's the words from his mouth...it's on YouTube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDlLb66b7Ao

In order to adapt, drummers back in those days who had been playing largely swing had to learn to straighten things out. In the interim that weird lopey in between "half shuffle" was born. It's kinda funny, how black musicians were straightening their hair and white musicians were straightening their groove. Coincidence?

Now if you wanna get deep into shuffle strangeness you gotta look at the "flat tire" or "stumble" which is the "&" being pushed across all 4 beats. Protip: If you're gonna try that, don't start it on the "&" of the previous 4 because you're gonna mess yourself all up but rather go straight off the downbeat of 1.
Ok, this is the first time I hear of a half shuffle - the history behind it makes a lot of sense.
 

BillRayDrums

Gold Member
I'm actually in the middle of a project with a famous LA drummer. We are writing the definitive book on shuffles and doing a lot of history work with it. It's about 78.254% done.
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
How I learned it, see it, and teach it:

A shuffle is triplet-based. It has a more "bouncy" feel, like riding a galloping horse. You play the partials of the triplet as triplets to keep it trotting along.

Swinging is that "no man's land" between a triplet and a sixteenth note. It feels more like the "skip note" is pushing the next note along, and it drives/propels the beat forward. Since there is less time between the skip note and the next note on the beat, it can feel anywhere from the horse galloping (triplet) to somebody tripping and trying to regain their balance (sixteenth). Different drummers throughout jazz history have various gradients of the swing range in their playing, and no matter where they fall in that range (from Art Blakey favoring the 16th side of swing on Moanin' to Jimmy Cobb favoring the triplet side on Kind Of Blue) it still manages to propel the music forward.

Another analogy: go for a skip outside, timing your steps in a shuffle pattern. Try skipping along with your torso upright. Then, try skipping with your torso leaning forward. That's the difference in feeling between shuffle and swing.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Thanks Caddy, that really helped me out. That makes it crystal clear. It's a fine line we're talking here, but it really affects feel.
 

Magenta

Platinum Member
13612 groupies....that's it?

13612 more than I got lol.
No it isn't. You've got me and Mary <3

Another analogy: go for a skip outside, timing your steps in a shuffle pattern. Try skipping along with your torso upright. Then, try skipping with your torso leaning forward. That's the difference in feeling between shuffle and swing.
I LOVE that - absolute genius.

Loving this entire thread too. Many many thanks to everybody who's contributed, I'm learning and laughing at the same time.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
No it isn't. You've got me and Mary <3
Can I frame this?

So, exercising my options....tonight, I need Mary in leopard, you Madge in a white baby girl teddy, both w/ high heels, too much makeup, with push up bras and edible panties, cherry or grape.

(wakes up from dream with goo all over)

Thanks Madge, you made my day. I guess it's all downhill from here then :(
 

brady

Platinum Member
I'm actually in the middle of a project with a famous LA drummer. We are writing the definitive book on shuffles and doing a lot of history work with it. It's about 78.254% done.
Nice! I'm definitely looking forward to this.

Please keep us posted.

Can you give any more information at this time? Will it be similar to the Early R&B book from Daniel Glass and Zoro? Is there any digging in to the style of older guys? I would love to see more insights into guys like Fred Below, Clifton James, Peck Curtis, etc.
 
Top