Should the drummer be banned from the studio post-drum tracking?

mattsmith

Platinum Member
... well I certainely would join Matt's and Andy's opinions and leave the band with my appropriate comments :(
Right, these guys are just a little "amateur sneaky" or ignorant. They're not evil per se, meaning it's not worth all that much energy. I don't think you have to be dark or aggressive here...just ignore the fact that it ever happened and put it out of your mind. I'm sure the OP has figured by now that nothing is coming out of that recording anyway. And when you're dissed for volunteerism, there's really only one thing you can do...or you have no self respect, alongside other musicians finding out you'll allow yourself to be treated that way. You only allow embarrassment with payment.
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
I don't think you have to be dark or aggressive here...
I didn't imply any dark or agressive feelings or comments in my last post, sorry if it can be read this way, it was not meant to be, I'm above these kind of battles and confrontation, and my comments to such a kind of band would have had a "positive" vibe in an attempt to review their approach to such a situation in the future, just for their own sake :)

The chance of me being embarrassed within such a context is not very likely, as I wouldn't probably have joined such a band in the first place, or at the very least, I would have left rather sooner than later, not upon a recording session some months later :)
 

yesdog

Silver Member
I have done ghost drumming before, because the drummer did not have good timing. I would play the groove just like the other drummer, and his drums would get sampled over my groove. Its a dirty little secret in the recording world, and I felt bad for the other drummer when I have done it. On the other side of things, if you track good drums its the most boring thing to sit there and listen to the song recorded over and over and over. If my tracks are good or not I would prefer to be told the truth if anything on my part was modified, and hear what the final mix sounds like.
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
I didn't imply any dark or agressive feelings or comments in my last post, sorry if it can be read this way, it was not meant to be, I'm above these kind of battles and confrontation, and my comments to such a kind of band would have had a "positive" vibe in an attempt to review their approach to such a situation in the future, just for their own sake :)

The chance of me being embarrassed within such a context is not very likely, as I wouldn't probably have joined such a band in the first place, or at the very least, I would have left rather sooner than later, not upon a recording session some months later :)
No, just Internet confusion. I was agreeing with your post :)
 

Drum Mum

Member
Drum Bum: As I'm probably the least experienced player on this thread, forgive me for asking, but what exactly is the relationship between you and the other band members? Are you a full-fledged member, or had you been brought in, as someone noted, to fill out another drummer's track? Not being paid suggests that you donated your time. Is there a reason why you would do that? As Matt said: was it volunteerism? Doing a friend a favor?

Just my thoughts, for what they're worth-I'd have to agree with the others. Walk away, and chalk it up to experience. In spite of what others might think, drummers are as much "musicians" as any other instrumental player. Your input is vital. Unless they've had issues with your input in the past, there seems to be no clear reason for banning you. You deserve better!
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Have you considered they might be trying to save your ego from seeing heavy elastic audio processing go down?
I don't think that's the case here.

If you're part of the band,and this was a collaberative effort,then you have every right to be part of the final process.It does sound like although you're not quite being shown the door,you were possibly being handed your hat.

If you're services were in a different capacity,then clearly some compensation for your time and talent is indicated here.I would not give permission to use my drum tracks,till some kind of discussion takes place ,and some kind of clarity reguarding your capacity with this band is arrived at.I think in any event,the air needs to be cleared.The reason you were givenabout being banned,was thin and imature at best.

Steve B
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
I have done ghost drumming before, because the drummer did not have good timing. I would play the groove just like the other drummer, and his drums would get sampled over my groove. Its a dirty little secret in the recording world, and I felt bad for the other drummer when I have done it. On the other side of things, if you track good drums its the most boring thing to sit there and listen to the song recorded over and over and over. If my tracks are good or not I would prefer to be told the truth if anything on my part was modified, and hear what the final mix sounds like.
Ive done this many times

sometimes with the drummer of the band in the studio

recently a producer who I have been working with for years flew me out to LA for 3 days to track for this band that had just signed with Interscope that he was doing some pre pro with .

I listened to the tracks and the drumming actually sounded ok to me but he hated it so we re did the songs with the drummer in the studio with me

it was crazy awkward but my wife and I got an LA vacation and I got paid for tracking 10 songs

he also mentioned that I may have to play on the actual record when they record in 2 months with the understanding that I will not be credited on the album

but this time I will track drums in NY

the guy apparently just couldnt sound natural while playing to a click and that just happens to be one of my strong points
 

Obzen

Member
Hmm, while I don't think being totally 'banned' is a good thing, I'd be open minded about agreeing as a drummer to opt out of the post-drum mixing, at least trying that out as a way of working, different bands work in different ways.

Personally, I'm a perfectionist and I'm NEVER happy with a take. As soon as something is played back to me I say "nah, that was shit, I'll do that again" when it's upto me judging what I hear, I do literally hundreds of takes, and the more takes I do the more obsessive and critical I become, and because I'm listening to a raw mix each time makes me think every take sounds like shit when it would actually sound pretty decent once mixed and mastered. In some situations and with the right people, me not hearing the drums until a near final mix of the song could be a huge time and energy saver.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
I'm not trying to come off as egotistical but I know that's not the case. I've heard the drum tracks they are all solid and I have experience in the studio.
Sorry I missed this but I remember you now - you posted some really excellent tracks a while ago! My excuse is that we get a lot of DrumBums here and I get confused easily.

Yep, I agree - you're rock solid. There'd be no point replacing your tracks.

Is this the band with the awesome singer / songwriter on those tracks you posted? If so, then that changes things (at least for me).
 

keep it simple

Platinum Member
Well you need to be careful with that kind of threat because I don't see anyway of being able to enforce it (not easily anyway).
Yes, you're right. Outside of a professional contractual arrangement, it's a non starter. I put that in more as a parting shot kinda deal if they were disrespectful.
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Well, that's one approach.

Another way to go at it is with a sense of standards and pride in your work as well as the final result.
I was thinking the same thing

but as far as most hired guns go they will basically track, get paid, and off to the next

this could be the approach Toddy is referring to

I was lucky enough a bunch of years ago to tag along with Bernard Purdie for a day here in Jersey while he went from studio to studio and tracked songs

at one studio we stopped at he tracked 4 songs, each one for a different artist who was not present. Just the engineer, some rough rhythm tracks, a scratch vocal, and a click

he would sit down, play the song once or maybe twice, his manager would collect a check and we would leave and on to the next stop

I bet he tracked 15 or 20 songs that day and had absolutely zero personal or musical attachment to any of them

strictly business
 

Otto

Platinum Member
If you have already agreed to it, I would suggest keeping your word.

If not I suggest that you line them up with a new drummer, if you can...then move on to another project....all done with good attitude and graciousness.

Keep your reputation clean...fulfill what you promise...and dont make bad promises twice!..or trust bad businessmen once you spot them.
 
Sorry I missed this but I remember you now - you posted some really excellent tracks a while ago! My excuse is that we get a lot of DrumBums here and I get confused easily.

Yep, I agree - you're rock solid. There'd be no point replacing your tracks.

Is this the band with the awesome singer / songwriter on those tracks you posted? If so, then that changes things (at least for me).

That is the one, trying to keep band issues anonymous. Thanks for the kind words. I'm eager to hear your new thoughts on the manner. S****y thing is this band does have a real future if we keep working. We do have some opportunities to turn this full time and get some people behind us coming up real quick. I don't want to turn this full time if I am not going to be respected and valued.
 
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mattsmith

Platinum Member
S****y thing is this band does have a real future if we keep working. We do have some opportunities to turn this full time and get some people behind us coming up real quick. I don't want to turn this full time if I am not going to be respected and valued.
Dude, I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'm really not, but without even needing to hear it, most who work a good bit will tell you this particular band has no chance at all. They behave like amateurs, and don't see you as an equal or they would have clued you in on their silly idea beforehand. Trust me...no one in the music business deals with people like this...and if they do it's to steal something from them because they know they have an easy mark.

Eventually this turns into the girlfriend who cheated right in front of you...that you still want back because you're sure it will never happen again...when 1. It was a cheap amateur move to begin with. And 2. It will most certainly happen again.

Let it go...let it go...
 
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