Should the drummer be banned from the studio post-drum tracking?

Should the drummer be banned from the recording studio after all the drum tracking is done? To me this seems like a power struggle which is unnecessary. No this is not regarding a session this is with a group in which the drummer does not get payed for his time. What are your thoughts?

Thanks!
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Sounds like a high school theater arts prima donna to me. Never heard of pros doing that. Never heard of anyone doing that.

Bermuda
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
^ What Bermuda said.

That said, many pros don't always stick around for the mixing process. Either because the band goes out on tour, or they take other gigs while waiting. But banned? That's just crazy.
 

richkenyon

Silver Member
Why on earth shouldn't the drummer be there? Speaking personally, I really need to be there in 90% of mixes. Not just to "fight my corner", but to help steer the entire process.

BTW - I really enjoy putting the drums down quite late in the recording process. I almost always record that way for my own material.
 
Well the rest of the band said banned until after the first mix, which is being released to a select few. One of the parties who is in the studio says the drummer can't be there because they want the drummer to be the ear that hears the product fresh without hearing all the steps along the way.. but at the same time i feel as if they should find someone else to do it and not just alienate a member of the band.
Well anyways I won't turn this into a high school drama forum haha. Thanks all for the input!
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Sounds like a high school theater arts prima donna to me. Never heard of pros doing that. Never heard of anyone doing that.

Bermuda
what he said ^

that is absolutely ridiculous
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Ah yes, it's always helpful to get a informed non-musician's opinion [sic]

If they want fresh ears then they should leave a week between the first and second mix. Fresh ears are a benefit to the entire band.

Since they discussed this between themselves without asking your opinion, I think it's a pretty clear statement of where you fit in the band pecking order haha ... if you want to be treated as an equal you've got to be saying stuff like, "The minor 7 sounds too AM radio, try the sus 4 - it should add a bit more tension" ...
 

Nodiggie

Gold Member
Please tell me you were able to listen to the drum tracks immediately after you tracked them. If you were allowed to listen to them with critical ears and made all the necessary corrections then I guess it's not a total loss. I don't understand why you are being singled out. It would only benefit the project having you and the bass player sign off on the rhythm section first before everything else gets tracked. just mho.
 
I do not know chord names but neither do any of them haha. I am always bringing new ideas to the songs though and quite of them have been used.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Banned? Makes no sense to me.

I've opted out of certain parts of the session over the years......moreso when guitar overdubs or vox are being tracked and there really was no need for me to be present. But banned, as in not allowed to stay or specifically told I had to leave........never happened and I'd never allow it to if I was a contributing member of the band and not just a 'hired gun' for the sessions.

If this is your band we're talking about, I'd be wary. Somehow I doubt this will be the last issue you have with these guys.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
One of the parties who is in the studio says the drummer can't be there because they want the drummer to be the ear that hears the product fresh without hearing all the steps along the way..
Do you really think that person will then listen to the drummer's input after they've spent time mixing to their satisfaction?

Sounds like an excuse to me. Or a power thing as you first said. I assume this is you involved in this game of theirs? Maybe you should be glad you're not invited. What a lot of nonsense.

Bermuda
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
I have always been involved within my bands throughout the whole recording process, being present while the other band mates are recording their parts. :)

On a couple of the demo albums that I did with a band, the sound engineer, the singer and myself where responsible for the final mix as well, so, no I don't think the drummer should be banned from the studio, in a band situation, the drummer is a musician who's involved as much as any other musos in the band. :)
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
a lot of us drummers are a lot more than just guys who play drums

we are musicians, amateur producers, artists

guys who understand theory, play other instruments , and have loads of quality input during the tracking process

just as the other guys I play with also play some drums and are always there while I track

sometimes the best drum ideas come from someone who doesnt play drums at all because they are not thinking like a drummer would think

very unique ideas surface that way

same works vise versa

if im one of the artists in the band and not just a hired gun you better believe Ill be there for every second of the tracking process , as my fellow musicians expect me to be, and I them
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
No this is not regarding a session this is with a group in which the drummer does not get payed for his time. What are your thoughts?
My thought is if he's being treated like a second- or third-class citizen, AND not getting paid, he should walk.

Should bassists be banned from the studio once they lay their track on the drum track? Or guitarists? The answer would almost certainly be "no". Stand up.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
I do not know chord names but neither do any of them haha. I am always bringing new ideas to the songs though and quite of them have been used.
DB, if they don't know the chord names they don't have any business "banning" you from the other takes and mixes; I mean, they're hardly heavyweights. Come to think of it, I find it hard to imagine musicians who *do* know the chord names who would band their drummer from the rest of the sessions.

It might be worth putting your feelers out and seeing what else is out there. Production is so much fun and so rewarding (if mind-bogglingly frustrating and challenging at times) - I'd be really disappointed to be in a band that locked me out from those sessions.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
I mean, they're hardly heavyweights..........
Yep, sounds like amateur hour to me. Which is fine in its own right.......everybody's gotta start somewhere. But sounds like these cats are just stumbling around in the dark.

As I said earlier, be wary. Sounds like a waste of time, for mine.
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
You walk away from a session like that without any explanation or second thoughts. Then you block those guys entirely out of your mind and start fresh in the morning. You've already spent too much time thinking about them here.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
You walk away from a session like that without any explanation or second thoughts. Then you block those guys entirely out of your mind and start fresh in the morning. You've already spent too much time thinking about them here.
Yup, I'll pretty much go with that. I'd probably pull any permission to use my drum tracks too, unless they're paying you obscene sums of money, then they can say or do what they like :)
 

Too Many Songs

Senior Member
Yup, I'll pretty much go with that. I'd probably pull any permission to use my drum tracks too, unless they're paying you obscene sums of money, then they can say or do what they like :)
Well you need to be careful with that kind of threat because I don't see anyway of being able to enforce it (not easily anyway).

Without wanting to stir the pot, could there be any other reason they don't want you around for the mix? Might they be hiding the fact that they want to re-record the drum parts?
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
Without wanting to stir the pot, could there be any other reason they don't want you around for the mix? Might they be hiding the fact that they want to re-record the drum parts?
It could be the reason, but then, if it happened to me, I would appreciate a "thanks, but no thanks" attitude towards me with some kind of explanation and feedback, if any band mates or musicians feel or decides that the drum track are not "suitable" for whatever reasons, it could be for a very "acceptable" lack of execution or taste from my drumming, so in order to avoid such experiences in future recording sessions, at least I would expect such a level of integrity and honesty in a band situation, and if the other guys/girls cannot be bother to have a minimum of respect for my musicianship, well I certainely would join Matt's and Andy's opinions and leave the band with my appropriate comments :(
 
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