Reason why no Keith Moon type drummers exists on main stream music

Pachikara-Tharakan

Silver Member
A lot of drummers I see these days think everything has to perfect and that they have to always do what their teachers and drum books tell them to.
absolutely...again thats what 's been expected from the drummer by the bassists/guitarists /lead vocalists/PRODUCERS and of course the solo artists as well.....in most cases.

there are two ways to play drums with the same music..the regular way or the Keith moon way (unconventional)
 

CalebL721

Member
A lot of drummers I see these days think everything has to perfect and that they have to always do what their teachers and drum books tell them to.
 

Popcorn Mogul

Senior Member
I haven't read this thread yet, but as a Keith Moon fan I have to say that not many people - if anybody - can live up to that name... (not even Chuck Norris...)
He kind of played a lead in the way that he didn't lay down the beat. he followed Pete.
didn't like the hi-hat either...
now music needs the backbone; because all the other musicians know no timing so they are relying on us (the drummer person) to lay down the beat - coz we are all just awesome!
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
the industry tends to cater to the attention span of the generation ..... which happens to be much shorter than it used to be

I've seen with my own eyes a record executive of one of the major record companies skip through a 4 song CD in under a minute and a half because there was no "catchy hook" within the first 30 seconds of every tune

these executives who decide what the masses want to hear represent the absolute antithesis of why I make music and the music I enjoy in all genres
Agree. Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Rationalism can be taken too far - to the point where it becomes irrational.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
Yes he did. Roger Waters is also a highly accomplished musician in other fields, including Opera - which have high levels of tradition.

The 'public' (whatever that is) can enjoy whatever they like. I'm happy to be self-indulgent for now. I always think that if somebody is creating art for themselves, it makes for a happier existence - regardless of the success. If you're making a career out of it, then you work for others, which is cool too. I applaud anybody that can make money out of self-expression.

The rules are there because they work. There's nothing saying that you can't know them intimately and break them at the same time. It's not a polarised subject at all.
I am with you on the public enjoying whatever they like, but I think the rules are only there because musicians accept them.

If you want a "Career" as a drummer there is a cartoon showing two drummers. The first drummer is flailing away playing everything he knows and the man in a suit says "Your amazing". The second drummer plays, boom bap boom boom bap and the suit says "Your hired".

If you play exactly what you like and what gets you excited, and can make a living doing that then you have cracked it. Lucky you.

If you feel you have to conform, and play in a certain way or style that is not natural to you, to get a gig or to record, then that is a different ball game. Its a job. You may like the job but its still just a job.
 

WhoIsTony?

Member
the industry tends to cater to the attention span of the generation ..... which happens to be much shorter than it used to be

I've seen with my own eyes a record executive of one of the major record companies skip through a 4 song CD in under a minute and a half because there was no "catchy hook" within the first 30 seconds of every tune

these executives who decide what the masses want to hear represent the absolute antithesis of why I make music and the music I enjoy in all genres
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
I get what you mean but, it HAS gotten alot worse over the years. Listen to stuff from the 60's 70.s 80's.
I mean MJ's Off The Wall has musical breaks, long instrumental sections etc. Usually they'd do that live so someone can dance and show off' but, it wouldn't make the album cut. Real solos in songs etc.
Popstars are just terrified if they're not sounding off now. Well, they're manufactured that way I guess.
I think that things may be getting closer to coming full circle than we think though. I mean this digital stuff has been stretched out a long time and you can really here the cheapness of alot of it at times. (although some of he producers techniques are impressive).

I just think being good is going to impress people again soon. Then it's down to how tasteful you are with your orchestrations as to how good you sound.
I don't think it's any 'worse' than it used to be, I just think you're less likely to be able to find interesting music in the charts than maybe thirty years ago. Record labels are inherently conservative now and 'know' what sells. That makes it unlikely for them to go 'off-script' and sign an artist that doesn't meet their criteria. These are the agencies with the major advertising power so it stands to reason that their music sells.

On the other hand, there are far more people producing music now than there ever have been before, it is inexpensive to produce a high-quality product and distribution costs literally nothing in theory. An example? Last night, I put some of my music on BandCamp using my artist name (not giving that one away), I registered an account, set my price and uploaded it. If anybody buys it, I get money. It cost me nothing to do this, likewise, registering for ISRC numbers so I can get royalties (fat chance).

Discoverability of new music can be tricky but there's more interesting stuff out there. I happen to discover mine when I go into particular, esoteric record stores and browse through their catalogue.
 

Chunky

Silver Member
This is not just the way it is now - this is the way it has always been in popular music. The music provides a backdrop for the singer to express emotion.
It is not necessarily a bad thing, it just is what it is.
I get what you mean but, it HAS gotten alot worse over the years. Listen to stuff from the 60's 70.s 80's.
I mean MJ's Off The Wall has musical breaks, long instrumental sections etc. Usually they'd do that live so someone can dance and show off' but, it wouldn't make the album cut. Real solos in songs etc.
Popstars are just terrified if they're not sounding off now. Well, they're manufactured that way I guess.
I think that things may be getting closer to coming full circle than we think though. I mean this digital stuff has been stretched out a long time and you can really here the cheapness of alot of it at times. (although some of he producers techniques are impressive).

I just think being good is going to impress people again soon. Then it's down to how tasteful you are with your orchestrations as to how good you sound.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
If I were a drummer who thinks I can play in a band (I know I have a long way to go)..................
I think I've heard you mention this before, but refresh my memory if you will. What kind of playing experience do you have? Have you been in a band playing with other musicians before? Even a jam or garage band?
 

poika

Silver Member
I think manufactured pop/rock/indie has alot to do with it actually. Songs for singers basically. Written to make the leader of the band the leader in every which way
This is not just the way it is now - this is the way it has always been in popular music. The music provides a backdrop for the singer to express emotion.
It is not necessarily a bad thing, it just is what it is.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Most of the world including most men are just plain old candy asses these days. There I said it haha. "Hey man, let's go play some Jason aldean and play to this click track!!!!"
Real men don't need click tracks.

Steve B
 

MCM

Senior Member
Most of the world including most men are just plain old candy asses these days. There I said it haha. "Hey man, let's go play some Jason aldean and play to this click track!!!!"
 

Chunky

Silver Member
I think manufactured pop/rock/indie has alot to do with it actually. Songs for singers basically. Written to make the leader of the band the leader in every which way while cementing what is now considered to be law among many drummers 'play for the song means do as little as possible.

It just takes a band to come along who write songs to please themselves, the stick to their style and write good tunes and they can then get away with whatever they want.

Really, alof of metal drumming was very plain and boring inthe 90's then Slipknot turn up with Joey and although he might be be the most technically amazing guy he grabbed all the attention and turned the drums into the focal point in that band which is no easy feat considering there are 9 of them!

Then after that the 'mental' drummers started flooding in and now the new breeds are breeding on metal and prog and djent and every 2 years makes the the two years before that seem tame it's all moving so fast... So... I think basically it's because bands are scared to be themselves if they want to be on the radio or in the charts. Look how much attention The Arctic Monkeys drummer got for his 'chops' hardly what you'd call crazy, impressive drumming. Just someone doing a little more than nothing for once.
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
Absolutely true in every way Dunc...
...and with that, it took me less than half an hour to set up an account to sell my music online. I'm registering with the PPL to get ISRC codes for my music, that takes a little longer.

Twenty years ago, you couldn't do that. You just couldn't.

See how easy it is guys? Now I don't expect anyone to actually pay for anything I do but the opportunity exists and it's down to me how I embrace and facilitate it.
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
The 'public' (whatever that is) can enjoy whatever they like. I'm happy to be self-indulgent for now. I always think that if somebody is creating art for themselves, it makes for a happier existence - regardless of the success. If you're making a career out of it, then you work for others, which is cool too. I applaud anybody that can make money out of self-expression.
Absolutely true in every way Dunc...
 

moxman

Silver Member
Depends what you mean by 'mainstream media'.. Top 40? I'd say there are lots of drummers who kick some serious but, that may have been influenced by Gonzo's style.. But heard more on the alternative/ prog rock charts etc. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Moon, but he did help create the Who sound and was entertaining to watch.. I still remember Pinball Wizard on the Smothers Bros.(?) show when I was a kid.. It looked like they'd let the gorillas out of the zoo! Just a ton of stage energy..
 
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poika

Silver Member
Yes, the spirit of adventure is gone. The grand experiment is over. Musicians stretched the limits and they found that that ... the public's not interested. Most seem to just want to get wasted and/or laid and seek music to facilitate that ... cool lights and funny looking people to laugh at are appreciated too.
Who needs the music anyways - now that we have the internet?

It's all that, and then some!
All in the convinience of your own home!

Watch, interact, participate - so go on, what are you waiting for, order now!



Special note: Doesn't include satisfaction, gratification, or feeling of accomplishment. Might prove fatal for social skills and/or needs. Seriously addictive. Use at your own risk!
 

sethlowden

Senior Member
Indulging my inner Shemp here...

I never thought of Keith Moon as all that far out of the box, albeit unconventional and quirky. I seem to recall Pete Townsend saying that Moon's drumming really limited what songs the band could play, because he couldn't really get much away from his standard style. I am paraphrasing badly, and will try to find a source.

I liked the Who when I was young, but the drumming was verging on bombastic and flatulant frequently. Food for thought: would it sell now if it was new?

If you want no-box music, here it is. But is it good? You may have 3 or 4 people in the audience at a gig.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsb6PmxXR60

Note the spiffy gongs about a minute in...
 
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