Reading Quintuples

clide890

Junior Member
I recently started learning how to read drum notations. I learned how to read quintuples when written has a 16th note, with the 2 lines at the top, but I stumbled on a drum sheet, Alter Ego by Anika Nilles, and it has quintuples written in 8th note format, instead of 2 only 1 bar on the top. I have attached a image and I honestly have no clue how to read it. Any help?

Thanks
 

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GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Is there a time signature associated with that measure or piece??

And now the attachment is gone??/
 
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Matt Bo Eder

Guest
View attachment 71043I recently started learning how to read drum notations. I learned how to read quintuples when written has a 16th note, with the 2 lines at the top, but I stumbled on a drum sheet, Alter Ego by Anika Nilles, and it has quintuples written in 8th note format, instead of 2 only 1 bar on the top. I have attached a image and I honestly have no clue how to read it. Any help?

Thanks
If your time signature uses the quarter note as getting the beat, then your playing the quintuplets in the space of one quarter note, or two 8th notes. If your time signature is based on an 8th note getting the beat, then the quintuplets is played over two beats.
 

clide890

Junior Member
The whole song is in 4/4. At the top of the music sheet it shows 160 bpm and under it it says half time back beat, if that matters.
 

clide890

Junior Member
If your time signature uses the quarter note as getting the beat, then your playing the quintuplets in the space of one quarter note, or two 8th notes. If your time signature is based on an 8th note getting the beat, then the quintuplets is played over two beats.
I'm more of a visual person so this was kinda of hard to picture. I mostly visualize it it using the 1 e + a and so on.
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
If the notation is correct and you're counting quarters you'll have to aquaint yourself with 5 over 2.

Play the ones you know(5 on each beat) with an alternating sticking, remove the left hand or play it in the air or a silent surface(e.g your leg) and you got it, or accebt the right hand. They basically last twice as long as the 16th note ones.

It's the same with everytthing.

1 half note = 2 quarter notes

1 quarter note = 2 8th notes.

1 quarternote triplet = 2 8th note triplets

1 8th note = 2 16th notes

1 8th note 5-tuplet = 2 16th note 5-tuplets
 

clide890

Junior Member
Thanks for the reply but again, I'm really don't understand when it is explained to me in words. sorry for my ignorance. I have to see it, adding the 1, the + sign, the a and e under the note in order to understand it, That is how I learned on youtube from drums the word. If you are able to draw it out for me I would appreciate it

If the notation is correct and you're counting quarters you'll have to aquaint yourself with 5 over 2.

Play the ones you know(5 on each beat) with an alternating sticking, remove the left hand or play it in the air or a silent surface(e.g your leg) and you got it, or accebt the right hand. They basically last twice as long as the 16th note ones.

It's the same with everytthing.

1 half note = 2 quarter notes

1 quarter note = 2 8th notes.

1 quarternote triplet = 2 8th note triplets

1 8th note = 2 16th notes

1 8th note 5-tuplet = 2 16th note 5-tuplets
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
Here's how I look at tuplets:

We can use words for notes. So a crotchet (quarter-note) will be 'tea'. In 4/4, that would be 'tea, tea, tea, tea'. Quavers (eighths) are 'coffee'. Eight of those in a bar of 4/4.

With triplets, I count 'one trip-let', 'two trip-let'. With quintuplets I use the word 'university' counted 'un-i-ver-si-ty' in the space of one crotchet (quarter). There are five notes in a single basic quintuplet, so five in the space of one crotchet (quarter). It's not a quaver (eighth) as such, it's a different note value. In this case, the song is in half time so what Odd-Arne says is correct. You're playing ten notes in that bar.

I wouldn't worry about playing it on different voices yet, go and get a pad and work out the time, then build in the other voices.
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
5-tuplets don't really fit in that system. They're an odd number.

If you've been playing 16th notes like 1 e + a ? We'd normally say 1 e & a. That's counting regular 16th notes, 4 notes pr. beat.


If you play 16th note 5-tuplets, you're playing 5 notes on each beat.

If you're playing 8th note 5-tuplets, you're basically playing every other one of those.



You don't read regular music notation at all? If not, this would be a reason to learn. If we share a written language, counting system and terminology things are infinetly easier. Also, make no mistake, this is advanced stuff.


I'll give it shot in a very basic way.

In every bar there four beats. 1 2 3 4


16th note 5 tuplets, which you say you know, will be 5 notes on each beat. So here we are each group representing one beat e.g. 1-1-1-1 is 1-2-3-4. There's established counting system for 5s.


12345 12345 12345 12345


To make this into 8th note 5 tuplets, you play every other one

12345 12345 12345 12345
 
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clide890

Junior Member
I do use &, the + sign what I use for &. I have attached a picture. It shows 4 16th note quintuples. Each of those quintuples are equal to a quarter note, that is how I see it. I added numbers at the top indicating the down beat. For the 8th notes, I guess I have to see where those down beats are, that is my confusion. If someone can upload a picture with the numbers indicating the down beat I would better understand it. Sorry for my stupidity again.



5-tuplets don't really fit in that system. They're an odd number.

If you've been playing 16th notes like 1 e + a ? We'd normally say 1 e & a. That's counting regular 16th notes, 4 notes pr. beat.


If you play 16th note 5-tuplets, you're playing 5 notes on each beat.

If you're playing 8th note 5-tuplets, you're basically playing every other one of those.



You don't read regular music notation at all?
 

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double_G

Silver Member
you will see that same figure notated as 5:2 a lot (five against 2). 2 quick ways to get it going: play regular quintuplets (5s) on a snare, then drop a hand to your leg (so that you are hearing just one hand on the snare). This is the sound of 5:2.

then put on a metronome at 80 & play eighth notes (4:2)...then speed up slightly as you add that extra note to get to 5:2 as you alternate right and left on 1 and 3. you will get it; especially at faster tempos, 5:2 is not too bad. the weirdest part is where 2/4 quarter notes fall while you are playing 5:2s. start to play quarters w/ your hi-hat as you works these. you will see that quarter note 2 and 4 fall in an odd way, especially at 60 bpm, etc.
 
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BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
Thanks for the reply but again, I'm really don't understand when it is explained to me in words. sorry for my ignorance. I have to see it, adding the 1, the + sign, the a and e under the note in order to understand it, That is how I learned on youtube from drums the word. If you are able to draw it out for me I would appreciate it
Right. May I humbly suggest that a teacher might help you here?

I would actually start scribbling out the 'e', etc. signs and counting them for yourself, it's much more helpful. I'm not a great reader of score when I'm playing but I can read.

Don't worry about feeling 'ignorant', it's part of the learning process. In order to improve we have to accept our own ignorance!

So, say with me: 'un-i-ver-sit-y'. Five syllables, five notes. Say it once for each quintuplet. I go a lot further with my tuplet sayings but having one really helps. Any easy five-syllable word or phrase will do. 'Get the cat back in' might even work, anything!
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
I do use &, the + sign what I use for &. I have attached a picture. It shows 4 16th note quintuples. Each of those quintuples are equal to a quarter note, that is how I see it. I added numbers at the top indicating the down beat. For the 8th notes, I guess I have to see where those down beats are, that is my confusion. If someone can upload a picture with the numbers indicating the down beat I would better understand it. Sorry for my stupidity again.
Ok the it's the same rhythm, just ever other note. 1-3-5 of the first beat 2-4 on the second beat.

What you get is 5 evenly spaced notes over 2 beats instead of one. This is wjy I initially explained it the way I did.

Play 5-tuplets the way you know, alternating

RLRLR LRLRL RLRLR LRLRL


The right hand alone is playing 8th note 5-tuplets. So, if you make no sound with the left, that's what you'll hear.

Don't go straight for that grove. Go gradually.

First one hand.

Then count without relying on the other.

Do alternating 8th note 5-tuplets.

There are more steps, but then you can try.

Remember to go slow and count.
 

tcspears

Gold Member
I do use &, the + sign what I use for &. I have attached a picture. It shows 4 16th note quintuples. Each of those quintuples are equal to a quarter note, that is how I see it. I added numbers at the top indicating the down beat. For the 8th notes, I guess I have to see where those down beats are, that is my confusion. If someone can upload a picture with the numbers indicating the down beat I would better understand it. Sorry for my stupidity again.
It's not stupidity, and it's great that you are taking the initiative to become literate! Reading music is a critical skill that many drummers lack.

Often times we call irregular rhythms like this "tuplets", which is a corruption of the latin suffix. In a tuplet, the number indicates a ratio to normal prevailing meter.

In your example of a quintuplet in common time; there are 5 quintuplet 16th notes taking up the same value as one quarter note.

The easiest way to compute this (for me) is to take the ratio number and then raise the note type up two levels. This should give you the ratio.

examples in common time:
- tuplet of 8th notes = one half note
- tuplet of 16 notes = one quarter note
- tuplet of crochets = one whole note

once you get into compound time, it gets a little more complicated, but this should give you a good idea where to start.
 

clide890

Junior Member
Thanks for the help guys but I'm still not getting it on how to count it using a metronome. I don't know where the down beas start, not on the one but like where on the picture does the 2,3,and 4 go under. I attempted to use the groove scribe from Mike Johnston but it does not have a quintuplet option. Again, I'm more visual so a actually need a picture lol. But I appreciate the fast responses everyone has given me, awesome community! I'll just have to keep looking for a answer I can understand.
 
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Matt Bo Eder

Guest
I'm more of a visual person so this was kinda of hard to picture. I mostly visualize it it using the 1 e + a and so on.
And that's fine. But the concept of "any-tuplet", is that you're squeezing that many notes evenly into however many beats it's supposed to be in. 8th note triplets, for example, mean three notes in the space of two 8th notes. So if you saw an 11-tuplet of 8th notes, in 4/4 time, that would mean you're going to play 11 evenly spaced notes in the time of two 8th notes, or one quarter note.

It gets even crazier if you start looking at the work of Frank Zappa, he would take insane tuplets, and have them spaced out over several quarter notes, the possibilities are endless. His composition, "The Black Page" is a tour de force of these polyrhythms, you should go listen to that (highly recommend the "Zappa in New York" live album, with Terry Bozzio on drums - it's easier to hear how the tuplets play out when the whole band plays the tune).

What Anika is basically doing is playing five notes in the space of what would be 4 sixteenth notes. So if you want to get the feel of that, set your metronome to a slow pulse, and just play five notes between each beat. It's just throwing you because it isn't divided by two easily. But triplets, and sextuplets are the same idea, they're just easier to execute. You could take it farther by doing 7s, 9s, 13s,....all that stuff that would make you really unpopular in a wedding band ;)
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
I think it's probably time you find a teacher and get some assistance in person.

Having had hundres of students I've seen everything, and if I had you in front of me we'd figure this out in no time. It might take 2 mins or I might choose a slower gradual path. It depends.

In any case. Any qualified teacher should be able to do the same.

I certainly pracitce this stuff, it's good practice, but in most situations it would get me fired if I used it. There's also a pretty well established way to sep by step get to a point where this is a natural thing to progress to. If you study regularly with someone, they'd probably try to stear things in that direction.

I have no problem sorking on certain things if that's what really motivates someone, but I'm getting feeling we might be jumping a bit ahead of ourselves here.

I may be wrong, though.
 

Alain Rieder

Silver Member
Here is the simple and definitive answer to your question.

First we speak about quintuplets, and not quintuples.

1. Your example is in half-time, so there are two beats, as shown in my first example.
2. However, if you want to see where quarter-notes fall, see the second example.
3. Here I added a hi-hat to the initial pattern, so you can see where "2" & "4" fall.



.
 

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