Questions about Practicing / Playing Paradiddles.

cobamnator

Senior Member
So, I was practicing on my pad the other day, and I realized something. When I play paradiddles, I always accent the single stroke that comes directly AFTER the double. Let me just right it out.

R L RR L R LL R L RR L R LL

It seems I can get fast speeds doing that. Also, I have a hard time NOT doing that. Should I correct this? What would be some good exercises?

Would consciously making an effort to accent a Different note be worth while?
(i.e. R L RR L R LL R L RR L R LL )

______________________________

Second question:

Around this same time, I was practicing Paradiddles to a click when I thought about something. Can you play Triplet Paradiddles and make them sound good around the kit? Any examples?

It is very hard to practice Triplet Paradiddles, or should I say, HEAR Triplet Paradiddles. I can do them for a moment, and then I just subconsciously go back to playing 8th note or 16th note triplets. So how do you practice them?

Most Paradiddles played on the kit are 16th note Paradiddles correct? I wonder how 8th / 16th triplet Paradiddles would sound....
 

JohnW

Silver Member
Traditionally a paradiddle has an accented first note of each grouping R L R R L R L L (effectively what you call the 1st single AFTER the double).

But once you get comfortable with that at various speeds, you can shift the accents around like P-f-o-g said. You can also play them one after the other in a "grid":


R L R R L R L L (1 or 2 bars)


R L R R L R L L (Ditto)


R L R R L R L L (Ditto)


R L R R L R L L (Ditto)

Repeat

You can add TWO or more accents or any combination thereof. But the first grid will keep you busy for a while. This is only a coordination exercise to help you be able to accent anywhere within this rudiment. More important however, is the ability to have clean, relaxed and even separation between accents and quiet notes. So working with a good teacher to develop technique will make shifting those accents in a grid much easier.

As far as your second question; do you mean paradiddles with a triplet feel, that is a paradiddle that goes over the bar line? Yes, that takes some concentration. I have to run now but will follow up later. Maybe I'll try to post an example...

-John
 

dairyairman

Platinum Member
Second question:

Around this same time, I was practicing Paradiddles to a click when I thought about something. Can you play Triplet Paradiddles and make them sound good around the kit? Any examples?

It is very hard to practice Triplet Paradiddles, or should I say, HEAR Triplet Paradiddles. I can do them for a moment, and then I just subconsciously go back to playing 8th note or 16th note triplets. So how do you practice them?

Most Paradiddles played on the kit are 16th note Paradiddles correct? I wonder how 8th / 16th triplet Paradiddles would sound....
one thing you might start out with is double paradiddles played as eighth note triplets. two double paradiddles played as triplets fit nicely into a bar of 4/4 and are not hard to play or get your head around. that's because there are twelve eighth note triplets in a bar of 4/4. each double paradiddle is 6 notes. the beginning accent of the first paradiddle falls on the "1" count, and accent of the second one falls on the "3" count. that's pretty straightforward.

single paradiddles as triplets can also work but they're trickier. three eighth note paradiddles fit in a bar of 4/4, but the beginning accents fall in weird places. it takes some practice to "feel" them properly as you play. i've heard jazz guys play them around the kit and it sounds cool in a disorienting kind of way.
 

cobamnator

Senior Member
Traditionally a paradiddle has an accented first note of each grouping R L R R L R L L (effectively what you call the 1st single AFTER the double).

But once you get comfortable with that at various speeds, you can shift the accents around like P-f-o-g said. You can also play them one after the other in a "grid":


R L R R L R L L (1 or 2 bars)


R L R R L R L L (Ditto)


R L R R L R L L (Ditto)


R L R R L R L L (Ditto)

Repeat

You can add TWO or more accents or any combination thereof. But the first grid will keep you busy for a while. This is only a coordination exercise to help you be able to accent anywhere within this rudiment. More important however, is the ability to have clean, relaxed and even separation between accents and quiet notes. So working with a good teacher to develop technique will make shifting those accents in a grid much easier.

As far as your second question; do you mean paradiddles with a triplet feel, that is a paradiddle that goes over the bar line? Yes, that takes some concentration. I have to run now but will follow up later. Maybe I'll try to post an example...

-John
Thanks for the Grid Chart.

You said, "Traditionally a paradiddle has an accented first note of each grouping", however, are Paradiddles ever practiced WITHOUT any accents?

Which is weird because my rudiment book doesn't say anything about the accent on the First single AFTER the double...that's why I was confused.



"As far as your second question; do you mean paradiddles with a triplet feel, that is a paradiddle that goes over the bar line?"

Um, I guess I'm not sure. What do you mean by triplet Feel? (My drum music theory is on the beginner-side)

What I mean is, say I am playing 8th note triplets to a metronome set at 125 BPM (each click on the metronome representing a Qrtr Note).



How would a practice to play 8th note triplet Paradiddles? Does that make any sense?

Are Paradiddles played as triplets alot? It is hard to "Hear" them played that way.

Maybe when playing "8th note triplet Paradiddles" to a metronome, I should accent Each "Click" / Qrtr Note from the metronome...Which would be every Third note of the Paradiddle.



dairyairman, thanks for that! I played eighth note triplet Double Paradiddles over a 110 BPM click and 2 bars, it repeats itself. Surprisingly easy to do! Thanks!


But one of my main questions was,
Are these triplet Paradiddles or triplet double Paradiddles used alot?
What is a good way to practice them? ect.

THANK YOU GUYS!!!
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
are Paradiddles ever practiced WITHOUT any accents?
Yeah, all the time. The book Stick Control denotes no accents on any of the exercises. That way you can just practice the pattern initially and then throw accents around at will as you become more comfortable with them. However, once those rudiments are transferred and spread around a drum kit, you'll find that accents an ghosts allow for a lot more texture to your playing. In short, the more ways you can apply a rudiment, the better your vocubulary will be. There's a lot of combinations available for rudiments.....which is what makes them so versitile....and why this quest for "mastery" can take a lifetime. :)

As for the paradiddles played as triplets. Good question and one I may explore a little further thanks to your thread. I've pretty much just always employed the sextuplet stickings (double paradiddles, paradiddle-diddles and six stroke rolls).....being six notes, they lend themselves to a triplet feel easily.
 

cobamnator

Senior Member
Yeah, all the time. The book Stick Control denotes no accents on any of the exercises. That way you can just practice the pattern initially and then throw accents around at will as you become more comfortable with them. However, once those rudiments are transferred and spread around a drum kit, you'll find that accents an ghosts allow for a lot more texture to your playing. In short, the more ways you can apply a rudiment, the better your vocubulary will be. There's a lot of combinations available for rudiments.....which is what makes them so versitile....and why this quest for "mastery" can take a lifetime. :)

As for the paradiddles played as triplets. Good question and one I may explore a little further thanks to your thread. I've pretty much just always employed the sextuplet stickings (double paradiddles, paradiddle-diddles and six stroke rolls).....being six notes, they lend themselves to a triplet feel easily.
Hey thanks for your reply mate.

I guess it would be good to practice all rudiments with no accents, then accent each note in the rudiment individually. correct?

Would a double paradiddle be considered a six note or 12 note rudiment? (R L R L RR L R L R LL).
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
I guess it would be good to practice all rudiments with no accents, then accent each note in the rudiment individually. correct?

Would a double paradiddle be considered a six note or 12 note rudiment? (R L R L RR L R L R LL).
In a perfect world, yeah. I'd dearly love to say I've practised every inversion, variation or adaption of each rudiment. It's not the case, but perhaps one day I'll get there. But yes, the ability to throw you hands around at will and create any sound you hear in your head is of great benefit to a player. Maybe one day I'll get there too.

6 notes.
 

cobamnator

Senior Member
In a perfect world, yeah. I'd dearly love to say I've practised every inversion, variation or adaption of each rudiment. It's not the case, but perhaps one day I'll get there. But yes, the ability to throw you hands around at will and create any sound you hear in your head is of great benefit to a player. Maybe one day I'll get there too.

6 notes.
Oh I see, so accenting each note in the rudiment individually is inversions / variations? For some reason I was thinking there would only be 1 "inversion" to a rudiment but I guess there could be several correct?

It is very hard for to pretty accent anything other than the "1" on a Paradiddle.


Also, what would be the techannaly theoritacal reason why a Double Paradiddle (R L R L RR L R L R LL) only is considered 6 notes? Because is not the Complete rudiment
12 notes? You’re not just playing (R L R L RR R L R L RR ect.).

Again, sorry for the questions, trying to learn a little something here. Thank you Again!
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Inversions are things like: RLLR LRRL, RRLR LLRL. Changing accents is like the example in your OP. rLrr lRll.

There are six notes to the pattern. RLRLRR end of pattern. LRLRLL is the pattern repeated with the alternate hand leading.
 

cobamnator

Senior Member
I will just re-post my response / question so it does not get lost, and maybe someone can help me out here...

"

"As far as your second question; do you mean paradiddles with a triplet feel, that is a paradiddle that goes over the bar line?" - JohnW

I guess I'm not sure. What do you mean by triplet Feel? Actual 8th note triplet parididles?

What I mean is, say I am playing 8th note triplets to a metronome set at 125 BPM (each click on the metronome representing a Qrtr Note). And instead of playing singles, I simply change the sticking to a parrididle...



How would I practice to play "triplet Paradiddles"?

Are Paradiddles played as triplets alot, if ever? It is hard to "Hear" them played as triplets.

Maybe when playing "8th note triplet Paradiddles" to a metronome, I should accent Each "Click" / Qrtr Note from the metronome...Which would be every Third note of the Paradiddle...might be easier to keep it going that way.



dairyairman, thanks for that! I played eighth note triplet Double Paradiddles over a 110 BPM click and 2 bars, it repeats itself. Surprisingly easy to do! Thanks!


But one of my main questions was,
Are these triplet Paradiddles or triplet double Paradiddles used alot?
What is a good way to practice them?
Should I accent a certain stroke in the Paradiddle in order to "Hear" triplet Paradiddles better?

"
 

JohnW

Silver Member
Cobamnator wrote:

But one of my main questions was,
Are these triplet Paradiddles or triplet double Paradiddles used alot?
What is a good way to practice them?
Should I accent a certain stroke in the Paradiddle in order to "Hear" triplet Paradiddles better?


Triplet DOUBLE paradiddles are commonly used in 2/4, 4/4 and 6/8 tunes. In 6/8s they are no longer called triplets (they're 2 groups of three eighth notes) but have a "tripety" feel.

SINGLE paradiddles (or a similar 4 note pattern) with triplet timing- You can hear them in some jazz settings, especially between the bass & snare as a ride pattern is going. I think it's more of a way to give an illusion of time being bent. In the hands of a good player it can provide a dramatic effect if not overused.

I've been tied up this weekend but will post a quick clip tomorrow evening on drum pad.

In the meantime, try this- Play a "Check" pattern of single stroke triplets against the metronome (80-100), where the accented note is shown in BOLD FACE and the click is shown as an underscore (_):

R L R L R L R L R L R L R, etc.

The check pattern lets the accents and the beat click fall together. Alternate the following patterns with this check pattern.

So then when you're comfortable after a few bars, (keeping that same speed) play this a few times:

R L R R rest R L R R rest, etc.

The second right of the paradiddle falls on the click but isn't accented.

Then try this where the left accent is off of the beat (again, the beat or click has an underscore (_) under the sticking).:

R L R R L rest R L R R L rest, etc.

Inching your way forward, try this:

R L R R L R L L rest R L R R L R L L rest, etc.

Then:

R L R R L R L L R L R R L rest, etc.

This is the 1st half of a pattern of paraddidles that goes over the bar line at a triplet speed but not with a triplet feel and finally resolves on ONE. The 2nd half of the pattern has the sticking reversed, starting on the left, again landing on the ONE:

L R L L R L R R L R L L R

A video will help clear my explanation immensely. You can also try this type of exercise without accents, just to get your hands in the right place.

A better use of practice time would be to play a paradiddle at one slow speed for a few measures (or a minute or so). Then play it at double time. Then go back to single time. Keep doing this back and forth. It is very simple, but strong and effective and you're going to need to be able to play paradiddles with conviction, control and good separation between accented and tap notes before you can play across the bar line as with the previous example.

-John
 

Numberless

Platinum Member
When you mention triplet feel, you usually think of patterns involving 3, 6, 12 notes, since those fit really nice in a triplet setting.

When you mention a paradiddle phrased as a triplet, you're taking a 4 note grouping and cramming it into a triplet setting, which can certainly be done but it's a more advanced subject, it feels weird at first and it takes some time to get used to it. You mention that you can hear how they sound but then it escapes, well in truth, at first they should sound like normal triplets, after all you're playing triplets just with a different sticking, so to get started think of a 4/4 bar played in triplets:



The bass drum is giving you the quarter notes so you can follow along easily, just play normal triplets, this should be simple enough, now all you have to do to get your triplet paradiddle going is to play THE EXACT SAME TRIPLETS with the paradiddle sticking:



Now this introduces some new challenges, the quarter note will fall in some weird places that will feel uncomfortable at first, as you can see, you can squeeze in three paradiddles phrased as triplets. Once you have this down then you can start adding in the accents and that's where the time bending feeling will open up more but we can leave that for later, I think this is enough to get started.

How to practice? With your bass drum keeping the quarter pulse, play two bars of regular RLRL triplets and then two bars of paradiddle triplets. After that practice two bars of 16th notes paradiddles and then two bars of triplet paradiddles. The goal is to seamlessly recognize the triplet feel no matter what you're playing before it. Good luck!
 

JohnW

Silver Member
I meant to post this last night, but had trouble with my computer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmEM0l35Ebs

Sorry for the creepy cellar background and furnace noise, but I didn't want to wake anyone up! I could have made it a little cleaner (both audio quality and playing wise) but just wanted to clear up the concept.

Also, nice notation by Numberless two posts back. That's what I was trying to show but comes across as a bit muddled when you're only using text.

And there are other examples of this type of feel on this forum. Check out AaronEdgarDrum's last rhythmic oddities post where he plays variations of a seven stroke roll with a triplet feel around the set.

-John
 

zap98

Member
Breaking a paradiddle down into alternate singles and doubles, and applying those previous strokes in different combinations on the kit, sound great and a good memory/muscle drill. Lead with different hands.

A single paradiddle, double paradiddle, triple paradiddle, and the previous inversions, played in 16th note triplets makes a good 'roll' sound, it is indifferent in texture to a double stroke roll. The accents will come out. The flam and drag paradiddles are harder to play at greater sub-divisions e.g. its difficult to put in the grace note. Play the paradiddle roll on the snare, break/fill sounds great.

Always practice the weak hand. If your right-handed maybe your left is weak.

Introduce the foot (kick pedal) into paradiddle patterns around the kit e..g the doubles.

At the end of the day, you might want to be musical and not regimented to playing a paradiddle, mix it up and feel your leading limb.
 

cobamnator

Senior Member
Thank you ALL for you're replies. I am reading all of them, and taking them all into consideration, and practicing your suggestions. Thank you John for the video that cleared alot up. I will post a reply here in a few days about how the practicing is coming along and probably some more questions! Again thank you. I realize I have a very weak left hand, right now I am practicing left hand lead, playing 16th notes (at quicker tempos) with ONLY my left hand and Paradiddles with alot left hand accents ect. I heard a saying that is very true... "Your only as fast as your slowest limb"

I better get practicing! Anyways, any suggestions are very welcomed and appreciated. THANKS
 

Witterings

Silver Member
Thank you ALL for you're replies. I am reading all of them, and taking them all into consideration, and practicing your suggestions. Thank you John for the video that cleared alot up. I will post a reply here in a few days about how the practicing is coming along and probably some more questions! Again thank you. I realize I have a very weak left hand, right now I am practicing left hand lead, playing 16th notes (at quicker tempos) with ONLY my left hand and Paradiddles with alot left hand accents ect. I heard a saying that is very true... "Your only as fast as your slowest limb"

I better get practicing! Anyways, any suggestions are very welcomed and appreciated. THANKS
As you say you're only going to be as good as your weakest point !!!
Tommy Igoe's Graet Hands for a Lifetime DVD has really helped my left, I wasn't bouncing it properly and I was making it hard work, it's really helped me loosen up and get a proper bounce with my left which has made everything so much easier
 
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