Pulled the trigger on recording gear.

KamaK

Platinum Member
Money-spending-related-adrenaline is fun, and I'm very excited to receive the following in 4-5 business days..

Kick: Sennheiser E602 II
Snare: Shure SM57
Overheads: 2X Audio-Technica AT2020
Interface: Zoom R16

I have to admit, the Zoom took me quite by surprise. the built in Mics, the ability to run on batteries, the Mackie control DAW surface ability... What a nifty little toy.

I went with large condensers overhead because I really don't foresee myself buying tom mics any time soon. I think it was Bo who was recommending larger condensers overhead instead of SM82/PG81's. If we're wrong, it's far easier for me to hi-pass out the lower spectrum than it is to revive frequencies that weren't adequately captured in the first place. I'm also curious to see if they get enough of the snare that I can move the 57 to the wires underneath.

Looking forward to posting some samples when everything arrives.

EDIT = Audio Sample. Drums pulled way to front. No EQ or treatment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQFnguUGc2Q
 
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Jankowske

Senior Member
Kindly let me know how you end up liking your e602 II once you've had some time to play with it. I've been considering that same mic.

Also it seems that we're in the exact same position, let's-spend-money-and-then-record-drums-like-noobs-wise. This sounds more fun to go through with a fellow noob than some stuffy old fogey who knows what they're talking about already.

Off to update my own thread now...
 
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Matt Bo Eder

Guest
Congratulations! And thanks for considering me on the big condensers. I think you're filling your mic cabinet with mics you can use for lots of other things, so that's a good well-rounded investment. The Zoom is a great choice too!

Ironically, since I've upgraded my mac computers (I now have the 27" iMac and a 13" MacBookAir), I've coupled the laptop with that little Behringer Xenyx302USB interface, that can either take ONE mic, or stereo-ins (RCA connectors no less!), and have been doing either one or two mic recordings with the kit, and I've been enjoying the process of learning how to do it all over again on the computer with a couple of mins. It's nice to have the Zoom at the ready if I need to mic a bunch of stuff all at once, but I must admit mine's been collecting dust for the last few weeks.

If I have to mic the whole kit, I could mic everything up through my Mackie mixer, and take the stereo out of that into the little Behringer too.

But have fun with that stuff! You'll learn a lot for sure!
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
Everything arrived yesterday, and I took the evening to set up. I just completed my first trial run, and I have to say I'm quite happy with what I have so far. Such a simple setup, no clutter, 4 mics, no phase issues to deal with other than getting the spaced-pair the proper distance(s).

My first dry audio recording. I didn't have to tweak a single thing on the Zoom. I just set it for Audio_Interface and recorded in garage-band. No EQ. No compression. Raw as raw can be. I 'did' pan the overheads, but that's it.

Without guitar http://youtu.be/AOwnaxaPr5I

Guitar added: http://youtu.be/MqiahLv8NFI

Additional Audio testing my Classic Maple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX920nBug0s
Note: The 57 is on the reso-side of the snare for the CM

Additional single-mic TCHAD testing. AT2020 versus SM75 A/B test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkJV5ion04

I want to thank Bo for the large diaphragm condenser suggestion. The toms really sing, and they capture everything I needed. I want to thank Bill Ray for the Zoom suggestion. This thing is awesome, simple, awesome.. Just awesome. I want to thank (I forget who it was?) on the E602 suggestion, as it appears to do a better job on my unported kick than my B52. I also want to thank my teacher for having the balls to teach a guitarist to play drums.

Shot of the AT2020 overheads:

Shot of the E602 BD mic

Front/Back of SM57 on the snare



The Zoom R16, within arms reach of the throne.

Yes... They're real!
 
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KamaK

Platinum Member
It turns out that, contrary to their advertising, you cannot use the R16 as a control surface in GarageBand.


From https://www.zoom-na.com/products/studio-recording/multi-track-recorders/zoom-r16-recorder-interface-controller

The R16 provides the perfect solution. Its Mackie Control™ emulation enables the R16 to act as a full-featured control surface for popular DAWs such as Cubase, Logic, and GarageBand, adding real faders and transport/status buttons that streamline the process of creating the perfect mix.
Wanting a transport in-reach of the drum throne was a big deal. In the short term, Logic-Control on the iPad will suffice.



The short of it is that Garage band doesn't have Mackie Control, only a proprietary midi control which differs from what the midi control that the Zoom driver provides.
 
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Bonzo_CR

Silver Member
Didn't know that about Garageband.

What I usually do is record on the Zoom stand-alone and then drag the files into Garageband (or Cubase, etc) and then you can work on them there. (I got that tip from Bo Eder)

Anyway, glad it's working out for you. I have AT2020's for overheads too. Good, aren't they? :)
 
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KamaK

Platinum Member
I have AT2020's for overheads too. Good, aren't they? :)
High quality - full spectrum stereo pairing with two $80 microphones. I can see how these things were a dream come true for artists on a budget. The results, especially on the toms, are absolutely remarkable. Bringing the cymbals up in the mix is now a slightly-counterintuitive low-cut, but that's a good thing because it avoids the artifacts that occur when boosting the highs.

Another up-side is that I get to hear feedback when I'm working on self-mixing and volume management while playing.

So far I'm really impressed with everything. The only thing I'm disappointed with is Cubase LE 7 (comes with the Zoom). It's like I'm back in 2001.

Do you have any audio samples of your rig?

@Jankowske -- The e602 II seems to do a great job on unported kicks. TBH, I've never used anything other than a B52 before on the ported ones, and the B52 has never really given me cause to change.
 

TheDrumster

Senior Member
It turns out that, contrary to their advertising, you cannot use the R16 as a control surface in GarageBand.


From https://www.zoom-na.com/products/studio-recording/multi-track-recorders/zoom-r16-recorder-interface-controller


Wanting a transport in-reach of the drum throne was a big deal. In the short term, Logic-Control on the iPad will suffice.



The short of it is that Garage band doesn't have Mackie Control, only a proprietary midi control which differs from what the midi control that the Zoom driver provides.
Try Reaper. Works with the R16, and you can download a free fully functional demo. If you choose to buy, it's dirt cheap for personal use.
 
M

Matt Bo Eder

Guest
With my new macs in the house, I was definitely considering getting another USB interface or using my R16 as the interface, but the more I thought about it, it didn't make any sense.

The R16 is already a recorder, and the way I work with it now, I record all my tracks and then dump the SD card into GarageBand or Studio Logic depending on what I need. Just because I now have the ability to record directly into the mac doesn't mean I need to do it like that. The upside to recording this way is that I never have to have updated drivers for any software programs (especially using Apple's new Yosemite, which is really wonky on somethings right now).

So I'm kind of "six of one, half-a-dozen of the other" regarding how I record. The R16 makes a great field recorder the way I'm using it, I'll use the mac for post-production stuff.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
So I'm kind of "six of one, half-a-dozen of the other" regarding how I record. The R16 makes a great field recorder the way I'm using it, I'll use the mac for post-production stuff.

Indeed. I'd do field recording in the same manner as you. The single driving factor behind using GB/Mac as my home-DAW was the workflow. I'm doing online collaboration, and having the charts digitized shared and modified/updated in real time has been a godsend. Being able to send projects back and forth has been awesome.

The down side is that all this new tech makes me feel like such a grandpa.
 

rustynuts

Senior Member
It's been almost 20 years since I've recorded anything and back then options were nothing like they are now. For the past few days I've been scouring YouTube, Sweetwater and GC reviews trying to figure out what to buy to get started.

Didn't want to start a new thread so thought I would resuscitate this one and ask for some guidance. The main goal is to start with a 4 mic setup (the mics I have a good handle on) and be able to expand to 8 later. With a PC laptop as the only component I have right now, what would you guys suggest? The Zoom? Something like a Tascom 1800? Something else?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: My prior recording experience was on guitars, I'm new to drums.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
With a PC laptop as the only component I have right now, what would you guys suggest? The Zoom? Something like a Tascom 1800? Something else?
I have no issue recommending a Zoom R16. Mine has been good to me so far, and I'm thrilled with its versatility. It's going to be light years ahead of the old Portaflex stuff from 20 years ago.

As far as the 4 mics go. Matching the brands and models with mine is not as important as getting the types right. Two LDC's, a kick mic, and a nice dynamic directional mic. My choices were to keep the cost low and the quality high. If you want to go 100% Sennheiser or AKG or whatever, go for it.

Ping me if you have any specific questions, or need audio samples made of some specific mic configuration.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
I have no issue recommending a Zoom R16. Mine has been good to me so far, and I'm thrilled with its versatility....
I'm pretty impressed with Zoom stuff. I just got an fx unit for my bass. Mainly for the compressors and amp sims.
But it's got a ton of other fx and some really nice extras. Excellent bang for the buck.


... Just because I now have the ability to record directly into the mac doesn't mean I need to do it like that....
IMO, the main benefit of a computer for audio is for editing.
You can't beat the quickness and simplicity of something like the R16 for straight up audio recording.
But editing on the hard disc recorders I have is a bit of a nightmare.
 

rustynuts

Senior Member
Thanks guys.

My mic choices are an SM57 for the snare, either an E602 or AKG D112 for the kick, and either AT2020 or AKG P220s for the overheads.
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
Thanks guys.

My mic choices are an SM57 for the snare, either an E602 or AKG D112 for the kick, and either AT2020 or AKG P220s for the overheads.
Also see if you can get the AT2035's for the same price as the 2020's. They hit $99.99 on sale sometimes, and the upgrade is worth it if it's a $10 difference. All good mics. Just get the best for the west price you can.
 
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Matt Bo Eder

Guest
IMO, the main benefit of a computer for audio is for editing.
You can't beat the quickness and simplicity of something like the R16 for straight up audio recording.
But editing on the hard disc recorders I have is a bit of a nightmare.
As I stated in my other thread on the Zoom R16 - it's been pretty much decided I may not be using it much anymore. The new OS on my macs (Yosemite) I found doesn't even recognize that the Zoom is there as an interface - even with loading the Zoom software driver for it. I got mynahs on a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB interface and with my AKG C214 overhead and Shure SM57 in front of the bass drum, I'm really beginning to dig recording straight into the mac now. The AKG C214 is a super microphone and what I'm hearing back is pretty much what I hear when I'm playing it. Amazing.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
... The new OS on my macs (Yosemite) I found doesn't even recognize that the Zoom is there as an interface - even with loading the Zoom software driver for it....

The whole computer vs. dedicated hardware issue is complicated.
The issue you bring up about new computer OS's and hardware drivers is one
of the things I like least about computers.

I've got 3 audio interfaces, 2 of which were a little pricey, which are no longer useable because of computer motherboard and driver issues.

I've got an interface I'm happy with that works well now, but don't know how long I can expect that to last.
They both have advantages and disadvantages.
 

rustynuts

Senior Member
Thanks for all the input, guys. Decisions were a lot easier back when choices were limited.

The only thing I've decided on as a definite so far is my snare mic, so I went ahead and picked one up at GC yesterday. While I was there, I was given the opportunity to check out some Focusrite products. Must say I was impressed.
 

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rustynuts

Senior Member
As I stated in my other thread on the Zoom R16 - it's been pretty much decided I may not be using it much anymore. The new OS on my macs (Yosemite) I found doesn't even recognize that the Zoom is there as an interface - even with loading the Zoom software driver for it. I got mynahs on a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB interface and with my AKG C214 overhead and Shure SM57 in front of the bass drum, I'm really beginning to dig recording straight into the mac now. The AKG C214 is a super microphone and what I'm hearing back is pretty much what I hear when I'm playing it. Amazing.
While reading through reviews and forums, it seems there are several brands and models that have this same issue with Yosemite.

But made my decision, right or wrong, on the interface. Just ordered a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8, four inputs and preamps, expandable if ever I need it. Now to pick up the rest of my mics.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
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