One handed 16ths on the hat/ride

K.Howden

Senior Member
It can definitely get awkward, especially if you don't work with it. I personally have difficulty ghosting with my left hand when I do play grooves like that.
One of the exercises I've found really effective for getting the hand locked in together is this one from Gavin Harrison in an old, old issue of rhythm magazine:

1) Sixteenths on RH for one bar
2) Sixteenths with both hands for one bar
3) Sixteenths on LH for one bar
4) Sixteenths with both hands for one bar

(Just to clarify when I say "both hands" I mean in unison, as opposed to alternate)

You loop the four bar sequence and focus on getting the unison hits landing together with no flam in between, the aim is also to keep everything the same dynamic level.

You then take the excercise through it's permeutations (sp?) in terms of dynamics: RH - forte, unison and LH - piano for example and all the other combinations thereof.

After getting that down practice constant sixteenths with the RH and improvise or read patterns for the left (patterns from syncopation are what I used) and focus again on getting the unison notes coming down cleanley together and after that mix up the dynamic of the LH patterns.

I noticed even after a short period of time that these excercises were paying dividends for me, I was able to free up my right hand (I'm a open handed lefty) when doing one-hand 16th grooves and it tightened up my accuracy, groove and feel in general. I still practice it everyday as part of my routine too...probably one of the most important parts of my routine come to think of it.

Anyway, I hope that's of some help,

Kev
 
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Bad Tempered Clavier

Silver Member
If you check out something like The Lady in My Life I think a two-handed approach to those 1/16ths would be too heavy handed. Quite apart from the feel of the groove being different I imagine most drummers find it quite difficult to play that delicately with the linear sticking (though probably not Jeff). Also if you play the two handed linear pattern then it's more cumbersome to play the pshp pshp pshp that seems now to have been revived.
 
C

Cheese

Guest
For me, when the tempo increases so much my wrist moves more but the stick is still loose otherwise it would be at a weird angle and would not rebound well.

Sometimes the rest of the music or rest of your beat can help you play the part your learning (in this case its 16'ths with one hand), it could help drive you into keeping it going and when you do it gets easier.

I would consider the tempo too as that is probably most important even if you have the right technique,don't get fed up of having to keep lowering it
because of wanting to get it nailed as it will probably not work if its too fast.

Once you learn a beat, even if you forget it later it isn't as bad as before you first learned it, it will probably come back quicker than then.

The first 16th thing I learned was tom sawyer by rush - I struggled for a few weeks trying to play that with one hand but its worth practicing one handed 16th's and with both hands.
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
Best to start with something you can handle, like a half time shuffle groove, which is almost one handed 16ths tho you get to rest the second half.

You can slip a bar or two of one handed 16ths in like Gadson does here on the ride

Work up to one handed 16ths, don't meet them head on as Gadson/others would tell you.

BTW James Gadson has one of the most famous one handed 16th groves ever recorded and he's inspired a lot of drummers Jeff Paccoro included.



Gadson reminds me I need to work my left hand.



............................
 
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ian123

Junior Member
I can't think of many songs with one-handed 16th notes on the hi-hat, but I can think of many with 8th notes at very fast tempos. Blink 182 comes to mind (intro to Mutt, second part of the verses in Anthem Part 2). The trick I found is to move your arm in a pumping motion. I guess its kind of like Moeller but the videos I've seen on that are 3 strokes not 2.
 

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
Thanks for your support everybady.

I just started doing it here and there, can't say I particularly enjoy it but I'm definitely disliking it LESS as I get better at it, and it's opening some doors for me.

Something that has made it a bit more manageable for me is to just do it for part of the bar, and just play quarters or 8ths on the hat for the rest of it, nothing too original I know.
 

denisri

Silver Member
les Lsmore...Has cited what is a very good example of a 16th beat Gadson's "Use Me". If you play that funk for the full song( including breaks) your doing well. take me about 3 months to get to tempo(quarter note = 80BPM). Love the song!
Also slow samba's are based on 16th notes.....which start at quarter note equal to 80BPM !
It's a very good beat for hand and foot coordination. denis
 

Kml1985

New member
8ths again
.............
“Jessica”/“one way out” aren’t the best examples because the pattern doesn’t have accents. You can barely hear the Jesica pattern, but it definitely isn’t swung. It also speeds up about 10 bpm. Also, I can’t see why you guys think it makes a difference whether it’s an 8th or 16th note pattern. We’re discussing the right hand pattern, and it’s the same either way.
 

Kml1985

New member
“Jessica”/“one way out” aren’t the best examples because the pattern doesn’t have accents. You can barely hear the Jesica pattern, but it definitely isn’t swung. It also speeds up about 10 bpm. Also, I can’t see why you guys think it makes a difference whether it’s an 8th or 16th note pattern. We’re discussing the right hand pattern, and it’s the same either way.
Oh yah guys, my contribution: “Georgey porgy” by Toto (the master himself). “Lady love me” George Benson (also, the Man Himself)
 

Kml1985

New member
Oh yah guys, my contribution: “Georgey porgy” by Toto (the master himself). “Lady love me” George Benson (also, the Man Himself)
But if you guys are talking non-accented, “Funky Drummer” is the gold standard. It took me so long to be able to make it through that tune.
 

Supernoodle

Senior Member
Funky drummer is just ticking 16ths softly on top of the Hihat with the tip of the stick, that by itself should be fairly easy. Try ZZ Top's Bad and Nationwide, it's heavy in the outro, shoulder on edge of hihat!
 
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beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
If you don't practice it you can't improve at it. For jams/gigs, more gigs if you can't do it tight go half time, but I think all practice you should work on the stuff that IS hard.

I don't practice the stuff I am good at, I practice the stuff I need to work on most and have trouble with. That's the point of it.

You go from not being able to do something, to not being good at something, to being able to play something. to being good at it.

trust me it will be beneficial to do it in the future. I love having 16th notes on the hats playing a groove.. sounds great.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
Remember that "16ths" is just a sub-division; as in, if you just add another snare note per measure now it's 8ths on that hand. What you're really not good at is strings of one handed quick notes over many measures. Looking at it that way it might seem like the bigger deal it actually is. I use the same techniques for riding toms, on my ride, and that's the tip of the ice-berg.

It's a very valuable skill and simply defaulting to two-handed 16ths isn't going to get you anywhere but limitation-land. (although it's also an important skill)

By working on this skill you open up more options for yourself, not to mention the sound is totally different one versus two handed.

I refuse to call it moeller because it's not that, but you want to develop a nice rocking motion using lots of wrist and a little finger control. Try to work on both accenting and un-accenting the second note of each rocking motion.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
I have been working on push-pull in French grip recently, and find that to be fun.

I also stole Gordy Knudtson’s trick of doing triplets and even quads in push-pull. Much, much harder.
 
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