One handed 16ths on the hat/ride

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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Practicing your single stroke rolls will by default help with your one handed 16ths. I watched your vid, and unless I missed something, I heard only 8th notes on the hat. I did hear snippets of a dotted feel, but it was not sustained for long
I don't think single strokes would really help much when aiming to improve a 16th hi hat feel.

playing straight single 16ths sounds horrible on hats or ride

I would say practicing open /close technique doubles or low "Moeller" doubles would be what someone would practice if you want to take that route

you want to shoulder the stick one the down, and bead the stick on the up......stealing that bead hit

it's a rocking motion.... ...so single strokes don't really apply hear in my opinion because it is more of a constant double stroke....if that makes sense

there should be no more effort involved than just playing simple 8ths on the hats......just that you are stealing that bead tap on the way up
 
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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I don't think single strokes would really help much when aiming to improve a 16th hi hat feel.

playing straight single 16ths sounds horrible on hats or ride
My reasoning for suggesting single stroke rolls was because I got the impression his muscles weren't firing fast enough and he was struggling to keep up. Practicing singles improves your hand speed, assuming you progress. But after watching the vid, where's the 16ths? He didn't look like he was struggling. If he's having trouble with the 8ths then he's a long way from doing 16ths one handed.

Also disagree that straight 16ths sounds horrible on the hats or ride. Lately I've been helping out an Allman Brothers tribute band until they find another 2nd drummer. Anyway, I play straight one handed 16ths on a lot of songs, both on hats and ride. Jessica for example. The ride pattern on Jessica is straight 16ths not pulsed and I think it sounds great, not horrible at all.

When I play one handed straight non pulsed 16ths on the ride or hats, I don't kill it with volume. It's more like I lay down a steady bed underneath everything, definitely not on top, underneath.
 
A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
My reasoning for suggesting single stroke rolls was because I got the impression his muscles weren't firing fast enough and he was struggling to keep up. Practicing singles improves your hand speed, assuming you progress. But after watching the vid, where's the 16ths? He didn't look like he was struggling. If he's having trouble with the 8ths then he's a long way from doing 16ths one handed.

Also disagree that straight 16ths sounds horrible on the hats or ride. Lately I've been helping out an Allman Brothers tribute band until they find another 2nd drummer. Anyway, I play straight one handed 16ths on a lot of songs, both on hats and ride. Jessica for example. The ride pattern on Jessica is straight 16ths not pulsed and I think it sounds great, not horrible at all.

When I play one handed straight non pulsed 16ths on the ride or hats, I don't kill it with volume. It's more like I lay down a steady bed underneath everything, definitely not on top, underneath.

those are 8th notes in Jessica.....and they are definitely not straight forward ...there is for sure a bit of a swing to them that is indeed pulsing

playing them straight will ruin the feel of the song ...which almost has a latin type flavor rhythmically
 

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
Bo can definitely do it!

Sorry Larry, I prob wasn't clear enough. There aren't any one handed 16ths in the video, I was just posting it to show my style and technique.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
those are 8th notes in Jessica.....and they are definitely not straight forward ...there is for sure a bit of a swing to them that is indeed pulsing

playing them straight will ruin the feel of the song ...which almost has a latin type flavor rhythmically
OK Jessica was a bad example cause I had it wrong lol but how about One Way Out? I'm pretty sure I hear straight one handed 16ths in many places throughout.
 
A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
OK Jessica was a bad example cause I had it wrong lol but how about One Way Out? I'm pretty sure I hear straight one handed 16ths in many places throughout.
8ths again
.............
 

PeteN

Silver Member
Texture and feel is what it's all about. I enjoy having the option to pulse or straighten those 16th notes.

Certain songs will just feel and sound better pulsed while others might sound better played straight. I tend to pulse grooves that are not busy on the bass drum but that's not set in stone. I guess it comes down to feel and mood for me whether the beat is simple or busy.
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
I uploaded some of "Why Should I Cry For You" by Sting because I used to play to it a fair bit to develop this approach. There are some RH 32nd notes too!

Unfortunately I had to drop the playalong out part way through because my software couldn't handle all the data & keep it all in sync... still, you get idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlXIYJXQxng&feature=share&list=PL08F0130D770EE509
I loved that... you're were inspiring man, the outro was creative with very good ideas/figures, thanks for the clip.

Yes it's a good wok out song, even if you have to play over/with the original drummer, I don't have many drumless playalong songs, so I tend to use the original songs when I practice these type of feel or grooves.
 

Nickropolis

Senior Member
Jeff Porcaro does have some murderously effortless 16ths...and everything else.

I guess I know what I'll be devoting a little time to today.
 

supermac

Senior Member
Learning Rush's Tom Sawyer as a teenager was good practice for me and stood me in good stead.

It made me do the Moeller technique, even before I knew it was called that!

Nowadays, the toughest - for me - is Seven Days by Sting, as played by Vinnie Colaiuta.

Not only is are they very fast 16th notes, the whole song is in 5/8, and he accents the 16th notes in a highly demanding but musical way....
 

K.Howden

Senior Member
I love using one handed sixteenths on the hats personally.

I agree that it can sound a little tired and overused if you're just accenting the quavers, but if you can learn to accent the different partials i.e. the "e" the "&" and the "a" and place accents on the off-beat you can add more variety to it.

One of my favourites to use for 8th note off-beats is:

x x X x x x X x x x X x x x X x or 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a

In terms of Moeller (which is why I started using sixteenths in this way) it would be:

tap up Down tap tap up Down tap tap up Down tap tap up Down tap

Combining different placements of accents within one bar can yield some really interesting sound grooves too!

I'd say getting to grips with Moeller technique, or at least the concepts pertaining to it are a huge aid in being able to do single handed sixteenths on the hats, but I'm not preaching to convert here! haha!

Hope everyone is well,

Kev
 

richkenyon

Silver Member
I loved that... you're were inspiring man, the outro was creative with very good ideas/figures, thanks for the clip.

Yes it's a good wok out song, even if you have to play over/with the original drummer, I don't have many drumless playalong songs, so I tend to use the original songs when I practice these type of feel or grooves.
Thanks for the kind words! I don't have drummerless playalongs either, and many that I have heard are poor imitations so I'd rather just put the original on. Plus, you pick up many more ideas by hearing what the drummer did on the original IMO - especially with someone like Manu Katche. His playing on "Soul Cages" album is a work of art.

Jeff Porcaro does have some murderously effortless 16ths...and everything else.

I guess I know what I'll be devoting a little time to today.
I remember Jeff Porcaro devoted a section in his video to this topic & there is still no better reference. Peter Erskine has also done good stuff on what he calls "The density factor".

Learning Rush's Tom Sawyer as a teenager was good practice for me and stood me in good stead.

It made me do the Moeller technique, even before I knew it was called that!

Nowadays, the toughest - for me - is Seven Days by Sting, as played by Vinnie Colaiuta.

Not only is are they very fast 16th notes, the whole song is in 5/8, and he accents the 16th notes in a highly demanding but musical way....
Tom Sawyer is a benchmark in so many ways, isn't it?!

The awkward thing about "Seven Days" is the basic HH accent is every four strokes. I am not referring to the issue of the four against five as being difficult: that's just an issue of phrasing knowledge, but rather the actual technique required to execute it in a relaxed & consistent way. Just a classic recording.

I love using one handed sixteenths on the hats personally.

I agree that it can sound a little tired and overused if you're just accenting the quavers, but if you can learn to accent the different partials i.e. the "e" the "&" and the "a" and place accents on the off-beat you can add more variety to it.

One of my favourites to use for 8th note off-beats is:

x x X x x x X x x x X x x x X x or 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a

In terms of Moeller (which is why I started using sixteenths in this way) it would be:

tap up Down tap tap up Down tap tap up Down tap tap up Down tap

Combining different placements of accents within one bar can yield some really interesting sound grooves too!

I'd say getting to grips with Moeller technique, or at least the concepts pertaining to it are a huge aid in being able to do single handed sixteenths on the hats, but I'm not preaching to convert here! haha!

Hope everyone is well,

Kev
You're absolutely right - it's important to explore accent possibilities for RH 16s. There's a lot of work here for any drummer that wants to explore it (which should be all of us!).
 

?uesto

Silver Member
It can definitely get awkward, especially if you don't work with it. I personally have difficulty ghosting with my left hand when I do play grooves like that.

I think the best way through it is to just play it as much as you can, play to tunes that have those kinds of grooves, and work on independence exercises that open up your left hand when overlapping with the 16th notes that you play with your right hand.
 
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