my rudiments suck, have I missed out the fundemental part of being a drummer?

Brodown

Member
okay I can play doubles, triples, rudiments etc but not at nearly the speed id like to play them, as a result I can't drum roll and I'm not sure where im going wrong, if its my grip on the stick my technique or whatever, as far as the rest of my drumming I can play a lot of stuff in 4/4 fine, I can handle odd time signatures like 3/4 and 5/4, my fills are not particularly imaginative but I don't have much trouble with timing, but I do have a problem sometimes with playing 16th notes at a high bpm which brings me back to the whole rudiment thing, maybe im tensing up, but apart from that im not entirely sure what my problem is
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
How long have you been playing? Perhaps a good teacher can be the appropriate solution, as he/she will correct/guide you where you're likely to struggle, just a thought though.
 

dmacc

Platinum Member
How long have you been playing? Perhaps a good teacher can be the appropriate solution, as he/she will correct/guide you where you're likely to struggle, just a thought though.
+1

In addition to MAD's great advice, I'll add to part of your question of "missing out on the fundamental part of being a drummer" Yes or no - it depends.

The fundamental part of being a drummer is to play with a great time feel to best support the music you are playing and the people you are playing with. This has nothing to do with executing rudiments at any given speed.

Rudiments / speed / technique in my opinion are nothing more than a means to an end. The "end", being able to play more fluently with greater ease and less tension - all should be with the goal of musicianship within the context of the situation you are in which varies from style to style.

If you want to develop better technique which sometimes accommodates more speed which may be one of your current goals, then a good teacher may be the fastest way to accomplish this.
 

Brodown

Member
How long have you been playing? Perhaps a good teacher can be the appropriate solution, as he/she will correct/guide you where you're likely to struggle, just a thought though.
Nearly 2 years, and I was thinking of that too, I usually learn songs by ear but of course theres a big difference between learning a song and perfecting your technique
 

Alain Rieder

Silver Member
Learning songs and musical structures is more important than technique in itself. Then if your technique allows you to play what you hear, it's fine. If it doesn't, just work on it!
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Hand development takes years and years. And years. IMO, technique is the first thing anyone should learn, meaning how to work a drumstick efficiently. This one aspect, learning how to get a drumstick to do what I want, is what I spend the most time on. I started working single stroke rolls years ago, and did them for maybe a year, but I realized that my hands weren't equal. So I dropped them and concentrated solely on whipping my left hand into shape. It was so worth it.

You must understand how much work is actually involved to be able to play equally with both hands. Holy crap it's a lot. It's taken me over 8 years and I am just about equal. I can now fast shuffle with my left hand and also do a good fast jazz ride pattern with my left hand. Finally I can play even single stroke rolls. Now I'm working on fast, even singles. I decided to achieve equalization before tackling rudiments. Now that I am basically there, I am starting with the single stroke roll, the mother of all killer rudiments.

I recommend focusing on your weak hand. It will hamstring your efforts until you get it closer to equal. I also recommend having your drumstick technique checked out by a teacher known for great hands. You have no idea how satisfying it is to hear your weak side wailing away. It's got to be experienced to be appreciated.
 

Numberless

Platinum Member
What are you talking about man? It's never too late for anything! Get a practice pad, go to the vic firth website/grab a copy of stick control and start practicing!
 

Liebe zeit

Silver Member
I'm at a similar stage, nearly 2 years of playing, good at the grooves I do for the band I'm in but have not spent much time on anything other than singles, doubles and not to any great speed.

But I recently had a bit of an eye-opener. My drum teacher got me doing this latin-y sounding groove (and this is him, in fact) made up of various paradiddle combinations a couple of months ago and I spent hours and hours the first week or so internalising the stickings then have done it every day for 10 minutes solid around the kit. I'm up to 80 bpm 16ths on it.

Now I've internalised it so well I could play it in my sleep and I'm using it as the basis for some new fill ideas.

Having done this has really made me see the benefit of practicing rudiments to give me a vocabulary that I can draw on, just the same way as I do in speech; that they're so automatic I can do them without thinking.
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
okay I can play doubles, triples, rudiments etc but not at nearly the speed id like to play them, as a result I can't drum roll and I'm not sure where im going wrong, if its my grip on the stick my technique or whatever, as far as the rest of my drumming I can play a lot of stuff in 4/4 fine, I can handle odd time signatures like 3/4 and 5/4, my fills are not particularly imaginative but I don't have much trouble with timing, but I do have a problem sometimes with playing 16th notes at a high bpm which brings me back to the whole rudiment thing, maybe im tensing up, but apart from that im not entirely sure what my problem is
Most drummers get their hand technique and speed from learning and practicing rudiments, snare solos, cadences, and warm-ups in private lessons or marching band or both. So if you haven't had this experience, you'll need to find a way to get it, if you want the speed and technique necessary to play the things you want to play, as fast and as cleanly as you'd like to play them.

The dirty truth is that it's possible to play quite a bit of music on the drum set without having this sort of training. Your understanding of music can be informed from simply listening, learning another instrument, being in a band with your buddies, church, and so on. But sooner or later you'll hit a wall in the technique area of your playing, and the quickest and most effective way to get past that wall is to practice the rudiments, snare solos, and cadences, and the warm-ups and exercises that go along with them.

Sounds like you should get Great Hands For a Lifetime and go through it with a teacher. Then get a Wilcoxon snare drum book and start shedding!

As for what's preventing you from playing 16ths quickly -- my guess is it's some combination of grip, tension, posture, and proper practice methods and habits. :/
 
A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
it's always important to work on technique if you want effortless facility to execute the vocabulary you intend to express

I was told by some of the best drummers to ever live .....have a high ceiling so no matter how high you jump your head will never bump it

you are only cheating yourself if you don't work on mastering sticking combinations

a good teacher will sort your issues out in no time....it is really no big deal and can be taken care of with just some focus, effort and guidance
 
I have been using the book Rudimental Logic by Bill Bachman for about 5 years now. It's a book meant for marching snare technique but I've adapted it to meet my needs for marching, concert, drum set, and lately I've even been adapting it to my hand percussion technique as well. My rudiments have never been better, and are continuing to grow and become cleaner each and ever day. I've used the book so much that it's completely held together by scotch tape at this point. I should probably buy a new copy at some point. . .but I have so many notes and markings in that book, that it's hard to imagine parting with it!
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
okay I can play doubles, triples, rudiments etc but not at nearly the speed id like to play them, as a result I can't drum roll and I'm not sure where im going wrong, if its my grip on the stick my technique or whatever, as far as the rest of my drumming I can play a lot of stuff in 4/4 fine, I can handle odd time signatures like 3/4 and 5/4, my fills are not particularly imaginative but I don't have much trouble with timing, but I do have a problem sometimes with playing 16th notes at a high bpm which brings me back to the whole rudiment thing, maybe im tensing up, but apart from that im not entirely sure what my problem is
Your post makes it sound like you're done. That's not how this whole music-training thing works. You keep working on it correctly and slowly until you get it - the good news is that you'll never get it - we're all continually working at it. So go back to the drums and keep working on it.
 

MJD

Silver Member
Your post makes it sound like you're done. That's not how this whole music-training thing works. You keep working on it correctly and slowly until you get it - the good news is that you'll never get it - we're all continually working at it. So go back to the drums and keep working on it.
Let me say, from the bottom of my heart, AMEN to this!!!
 

mikel

Platinum Member
+1

In addition to MAD's great advice, I'll add to part of your question of "missing out on the fundamental part of being a drummer" Yes or no - it depends.

The fundamental part of being a drummer is to play with a great time feel to best support the music you are playing and the people you are playing with. This has nothing to do with executing rudiments at any given speed.

Rudiments / speed / technique in my opinion are nothing more than a means to an end. The "end", being able to play more fluently with greater ease and less tension - all should be with the goal of musicianship within the context of the situation you are in which varies from style to style.

If you want to develop better technique which sometimes accommodates more speed which may be one of your current goals, then a good teacher may be the fastest way to accomplish this.
All of the above.

Plus. If you are unhappy with your drumming then there is something wrong. If you are happy with your band playing then you are fine. Rudiments are merely drills. If you play well, and enjoy what you do, then who cares if you can play any rudiments?

If you are not pleased with the way you play check with a teacher.
 

BillBachman

Gold Member
I have been using the book Rudimental Logic by Bill Bachman for about 5 years now. It's a book meant for marching snare technique but I've adapted it to meet my needs for marching, concert, drum set, and lately I've even been adapting it to my hand percussion technique as well. My rudiments have never been better, and are continuing to grow and become cleaner each and ever day. I've used the book so much that it's completely held together by scotch tape at this point. I should probably buy a new copy at some point. . .but I have so many notes and markings in that book, that it's hard to imagine parting with it!
Hey there, I'm glad to hear that the book is serving you well! It does have marching drums on the cover, but everything in it is universal, good hands are good hands.

You'll also love my new book Stick Technique published through Modern Drummer. Where Rudimental Logic focuses on tons of rudiments as it develops well rounded hands, Stick Technique uses fewer rudiments as it takes you on the quickest path to complete and well rounded hand technique.

And no, it's never too late to develop good hands and it'll pay off bigtime in the musicality, feel, vocabulary and flow in your drumset playing. Most people who work really hard on their hands work them the wrong way and never get the results they're looking for. And watching a video (even if it has good information) certainly does mean that you're applying the information the right way. You have to work smarter more than harder. I do lessons over Skype and have parted the clouds for many players allowing them to get way better way faster. Let me know if you're interested!
 

Jookbox

Pioneer Member
I have been using the book Rudimental Logic by Bill Bachman for about 5 years now. It's a book meant for marching snare technique but I've adapted it to meet my needs for marching, concert, drum set, and lately I've even been adapting it to my hand percussion technique as well. My rudiments have never been better, and are continuing to grow and become cleaner each and ever day. I've used the book so much that it's completely held together by scotch tape at this point. I should probably buy a new copy at some point. . .but I have so many notes and markings in that book, that it's hard to imagine parting with it!
I'm the same way with Stick Control. Held together with tape. The first six lessons are especially dirty because that's where I spent most of my time.
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
Everything is a single or a double. Learning all the combinations is overrated. Just make stuff up and groove ***********.
 
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con struct

Platinum Member
Everything is a single or a double. Learning all the combinations is overrated. Just make stuff up and groove ***********.
But that's simply not true, not anywhere close.

To all the young drummers reading this: what he's saying just isn't so.
 
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Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
You can play for a lifetime without bothering to work on rudiments. It's been done before and it'll continue to be done in the future (although the simple fact is, that drummers who claim no working knowledge of rudiments are actually employing at least some of them anyway....they just don't realise they are).

BUT, if you ever feel that your current approach is prone to some limitations.....that you can't quite express the rhythms you hear in your head on the drum kit, then working on rudiments is a sure fire remedy towards being able to expand your musical vocabulary.
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
But that's simply not true, not anywhere close.

To all the young drummers reading this: what he's saying just isn't so.
So tell me ---when do you do anything more than a single or a double? I think you're just not comprehending what I'm saying.

In the future, if you have a different point of view -- state it, but these emphatic retorts that just makes you look more and more foolish.
 
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