ludwig supraphonic bronze seamless shell or not?

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
I have several Slingerland snares with stick saver hoops,and there's no damage to ANY of their bearing edges what so ever.


That's got nothing to do with the hoops.



In fact there's no damage to the bearing edges on ANY of my snare drums which date fron the late 40's to the early 90's with 1.3,2.3,diecast,COB, COS,double flange and triple flange and stick saver hoops


Again, nothing to do with the hoops. Though if any of your drums were to encounter a situation where a bearing edge might get damaged, 3, 2.3, die cast, COB, COS, double flange, triple flange and stick saver hoops aren't going to come close to protecting them like S-HOOPS can.

You'd have to put a diecast hoop under quite a lot of tension to make it flex,a quality one at least.For that matter,I'll bet real money,ANY hoop can be flexed under enough tension....S hoops included.


As I said in post #17 it doesn't take a lot of tension to get die cast hoops to flex at the ears. Put your snare on its side, start tuning and you'll see the flex happening when the tension starts to get high.

Flanges create strength, S-HOOPS have an extra flange, die cast hoops are relatively weak in the flex department compared to.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
I have several Slingerland snares with stick saver hoops,and there's no damage to ANY of their bearing edges what so ever.


That's got nothing to do with the hoops.



In fact there's no damage to the bearing edges on ANY of my snare drums which date fron the late 40's to the early 90's with 1.3,2.3,diecast,COB, COS,double flange and triple flange and stick saver hoops


Again, nothing to do with the hoops. Though if any of your drums were to encounter a situation where a bearing edge might get damaged, 3, 2.3, die cast, COB, COS, double flange, triple flange and stick saver hoops aren't going to come close to protecting them like S-HOOPS can.

You'd have to put a diecast hoop under quite a lot of tension to make it flex,a quality one at least.For that matter,I'll bet real money,ANY hoop can be flexed under enough tension....S hoops included.


As I said in post #17 it doesn't take a lot of tension to get die cast hoops to flex at the ears. Put your snare on its side, start tuning and you'll see the flex happening when the tension starts to get high.

Flanges create strength, S-HOOPS have an extra flange, die cast hoops are relatively weak in the flex department compared to.
You did say S hoops hoops protect the bearing edges,and that Stick savers fall short of doing this...right?If your bearing edges need protection,then you're doing something wrong.

My Tama superstar (vintage 80's) has diecast hoops top and bottom and my reso head is cranked pretty high.NO flex what so ever.

Steve B
 

longgun

Gold Member
I have S-Hoops on all my snares but my Coliseums. If they made a 12 hole version ,I would have them on those too.I'm not really worried about smacking the bearing edge. I play almost all rimshots. Sticks last me 3 times longer with S-Hoops. They seem to make the rimshot a little fatter too.
I have S-hoops on my Supra and I can get great sounding rim "clicks"...............much easier than any of my other hoops

You did say S hoops hoops protect the bearing edges,and that Stick savers fall short of doing this...right?If your bearing edges need protection,then you're doing something wrong.

My Tama superstar (vintage 80's) has diecast hoops top and bottom and my reso head is cranked pretty high.NO flex what so ever.

Steve B
I think its more of a handling issue, not from playing. If you drop a drum, there is a chance the bearing edge can get damaged................the s-hoops provide a little better coverage IMO. Granted, I've never had this happen, but I've seen pics of bearing edges that were damaged from dropping.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
I think its more of a handling issue, not from playing. If you drop a drum, there is a chance the bearing edge can get damaged.........
Can't see how. There's a good 5 or 6 mil of raised metal hoop that'll see contact with the ground long before any bearing edge......that goes for S-Hoop, die cast or triple flanged.
 
Last edited:

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
You did say S hoops hoops protect the bearing edges,and that Stick savers fall short of doing this...right?If your bearing edges need protection,then you're doing something wrong.

In light of that thinking 'everyone' does something wrong at one time or another. Unintentional, accidents, however you want to label it, things happen.

STICK SAVERS were not designed to protect the bearing edge, they provide little to zero protection in that respect. Everyones bearing edges will benefit from protection, the more you play your drums the greater chances of something happening to your bearing edge.


My Tama superstar (vintage 80's) has diecast hoops top and bottom and my reso head is cranked pretty high.NO flex what so ever.

You need a trained eye to notice deflection just by looking at a drum with DC hoops, its not as easy to spot as a defect like lug splay.

You 'can' turn your drum on its side, start tuning and when the DC hoop reaches that point you'll witness the ears and a small adjoining area of the hoop flex in motion from the tension.

Due to the nature of the cast process and the materials involved, the ears are the weakest point when it comes to flex on a DC hoop. DC hoops are not as resistant to flex as an S-HOOP which has multiple flanges providing rigidity.



I think its more of a handling issue, not from playing. If you drop a drum, there is a chance the bearing edge can get damaged.........
Can't see how. There's a good 5 or 6 mil of raised metal hoop that'll see contact with the ground long before any bearing edge......that goes for S-Hoop, die cast or triple flanged.


A drum dropped at an angle can cause bearing edge damage, also stacking smaller drum onto larger ones puts the edge at risk. Tap tuning (even Dave Weckl @1:30 'does stuff wrong'), errant stick hits and ways yet undiscovered pose a possible threat to bearing edges, the more you play the more you'll increase your chances of experiencing a damaged bearing edge.
 
Last edited:

Jeremy Bender

Platinum Member
The "S" hoops...is that the same as the UFO hoops from the seventies and eighties that Ludwig had?

Also: Looking at Ludwig's catalog I didn't see an offer for different weight or thickness options when it came to snare hoops except for the triple flanged or die-cast option. So how do you know if it's a 1.3mm hoop or not and what is the effect on sound with a Ludwig snare?
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
The "S" hoops...is that the same as the UFO hoops from the seventies and eighties that Ludwig had?

Also: Looking at Ludwig's catalog I didn't see an offer for different weight or thickness options when it came to snare hoops except for the triple flanged or die-cast option. So how do you know if it's a 1.3mm hoop or not and what is the effect on sound with a Ludwig snare?
Metal shell drums are very resistant to bearing edge damage, especially LUDWIG with their broad roll over. Metal is stronger than wood in this case.

I believe LUDWIG snare hoops (the modern ones anyway) are 1.8mm, not positive tho. My experience is that they are thicker than 1.3 mm

The lighter the hoop on a metal LUDWIG snare, the more open it sounds, the sound isn't as focused, its more airy with highlighted overtones IMO. I prefer die cast on the bottom and their (1.8mm?) hoop on top of a LUDWIG metal snare.
 

Jeremy Bender

Platinum Member
I agree with you that the Ludwig triple flanged hoop does open the drum up to breath and give more overtones than a die cast does. I tried a die cast batter hoop and it killed the drums resonance.
I love the Remo Vintage-A combined with the triple flanged hoops and a set of Puresound 16 strand bronze snares. It's the perfect combination (to my ears) to use on the Ludwig hammered bronze
 
Top