Ludwig Keystone badge clarification need some help

Keystone

Member
Hey everybody my first post on this forum. A little while ago I got my first "Real" set. For years I played a 90's Ludwig Rocker, please restrain comments. Anyway I picked up a Red Mahogany finish early 1980's "Keystone" Ludwig set with virgin bass drum. Apparently the last year in Chicago.

Here is my question after much research the Keystone badge was retired in the late 60's early 70's and replaced with the B/O badge. So how do I have an 80's "Keystone"? I have found very few other 80's "Keystones" on the net in my search. Actually just one, an '82 kit also with a clear finish.

So What?? Do I have a fake? The Keystones aren't 3D like the <70's ones, their smooth, polished and say Chicago on the bottom of them. Any help would be great.
 

Michael G

Silver Member
You have Monroe keystone badges on your kit, not a Chicago keystone.

The latter is smaller. They switched to these from B/O around the time frame of your kit, and they still use them now as well (barring entry level and Legacy kits.)
 

Keystone

Member
Thanks very much, your right. But they do say Chicago on the bottom not Monroe NC. They are also gold which I believe they used to represent Maple and The silver one to represent birch. I am glad to see (and hear) that it appears that I got a better kit than i had before.
 

Michael G

Silver Member
Yes I just use Monroe keystone badge as a general reference, there are kits out there like yours that have "Chicago" Monroe badges. A kind of rarity that you have. They sound good too.
 

ludwigvondrumcrazy

Senior Member
I guess you could look at the last Keystone Badges Ludwig used before they left Chicago as Chicago "Monroe" Keystones but since the Chicago, silkscreened (gold on gold) Keystones came first it could confuse the issue some.

If your Drums are early 80's and they have Chicago "silkscreened" Keystones then you should have the real deal..............

LVDC
 

drumhammerer

Silver Member
Yeah, I've seen a few of those 80's keystone Chicago badge drums on e-bay. I believe it was some sort of 75th anniversary keystone badge re-issue for 1983 or 1984, and this was probably a year before they moved to N.C. They look just like the newer ones, but they say Chicago instead of Monroe, so these are certainly authentic. These are the same 6 ply shells as the mid to late 70's versions, and they sound just as good. I bet these Chicago keystone badge drums will become serious collectors items in the future, since this particular badge was only made for a year or so, kind of like the transition badge, although not as sought after as that one. So, if you're not finding drums like yours on e-bay or anywhere else, it's simply because that badge is quite rare. Oh, and some of those Rockers series drums were quite good IMO. BTW what size of kick did you get with that set? I've got a 26" kick and an '82 Ludwig 24X14 kick, and I can get that 24 sounding pretty close to my 26" with a Remo coated powerstroke 4.
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
Rest assured, you have the "real deal". Ludwig opperated out of both Chicago and Monroe, for a while. First they moved production of their "junior line", keeping the Classic line in Chicago, until 1985, then Chicago was closed and Classic production went to Monroe as well.
 

Keystone

Member
I hope this works but here is the closest I could find. Yes it is silk screened and I got a 24" bass. I love big drums!!

..................Hey how do I get a picture on here?????
 

ryctor

Junior Member
These are the Keystone reissue Badge Ludwig only made in 1984, to celebrate their 75th anniversary (1909-1984) They were the last Chicago produced Ludwig drums, some have a serial others do not, but what is a constant is the Large Keystone Chicago USA Badge on them.
The ones without a serial are more rare, and certainly will become collector's items in the future, they are a part of history, and for some reason, the Supraphonics that came with those kits, sported Bow Tie Lugs instead of the regular Imperial lugs. And for some odd reason, they are surprisingly clean, with almost no pitting at all.
I have seen newer Supras with a lot more pitting and flaking, mine, and some others I found in my research, showed no trace of pitting at all, its like they were Brass, but they are Ludaloy indeed and they all sport the old Blue sticker that states the Anti-Galvanic reliable plating process and their Ludaloy shell material.
Here is a pic of my beloved Supra, I sold it once, because of economic reasons, a year after, it reappeared on the Bay, the owner had it listed as an 8 lug steel Ludwig.
I emailed him asking about the number of lugs and if there was a sticker in the inside.
The biding was at 60.00 at the time, and I finally got it for 120.00 plus shipping. Believe me , I will never let this one off my side again.
There was one exactly like this one in the Bay a couple of weeks ago, it was starting at 200.00, no one placed a bid, a shame!
Here is the pic, Enjoy!

The Ryctor!
 

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drumhammerer

Silver Member
Yeah, I had been looking at that Supra on E-bay. I thought someone had just stuck a keystone badge on one of those black/white badge 10 lug steel snares made overseas. I think that's why people are hesitant to bid on these. They just look so much alike, minus the badge and strainer. I guess all you would need to do though, is get the seller to see if a magnet will stick to the shell, and that would prove it right there that it wasn't a steel shell. I had a seller do that one time on a supra with all the correct hardware, and lo and behold, the magnet stuck. So there are some fakes out there, but I can usually tell simply by the chrome plating. Chromed steel just has a much shinier and smoother look to it, but the ludaloy has these subltle lines you can pick up in certain lighting, and it seems a little duller than the steel. And with the vintage ones, there's bound to be at least a couple areas of pitting somewhere on the shell.
 

Keystone

Member
The ones without a serial are more rare, and certainly will become collector's items in the future, they are a part of history, and for some reason, the Supraphonics that came with those kits, sported Bow Tie Lugs instead of the regular Imperial lugs. And for some odd reason, they are surprisingly clean, with almost no pitting at all.

The Ryctor![/QUOTE]

Yes, my set does not have the serial number at all. I have another posting about weather or not I should restore them or not due to some neglect and wear, since like you mentioned, they have the potential to become a collectors item. Any thoughts would greatly be appreciated. I would like to post pictures but I have to ask how do you post a on this forum?
 

ryctor

Junior Member
Dude, I will love to see picks of the kit and snare,
When you press the reply link, there will be at the lower side, in the Additional options area, the Manage Attachments button that takes you to a window that lets you upload images. I advise using jpeg format, check the pic.
Good Luck!
 

Attachments

Vibes

Junior Member
I found this on my local Craigs List from a guy who bought a lot at a estate sell and there were some old drum stuff he had no clue really what he had. Got some great vintage A Zildjian cymbals,speed king, stands, trap case, vintage radio King Bass drum and this
6 1/2"x14" 10 Bowtie Lug Supraphonic. It has a Chicago Keystone badge with no serial number and the blue Ludaloy sticker on the inside. Pretty sure this is a 1984 Anniversay issue snare. I took it completely apart and cleaned it up. It is one of the the best sounding snares I own now. It resides on my studio set. It took me a while to identify it.
Has to be the same drum being discussed but in 6 1/2"x14".
Here is a pic along with my Acrolite.
 
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