JOHN RILEY here...new DVD: samples here....

tim1987

Member
Yeah, I think I use french grip when playing the ride for jazz. I had a bad habit with my thumb because the whole pad of my thumb wasn't on the stick. I had some other bad habits in my traditional grip hand, but that's been ironed out now.

I'm no expert at all on ride technique, I know what needs to be done after looking at the masters. It's just doing it myself which is the hard bit!!
 

RicardoG

Junior Member
hey. the reason I asked about the technique is because on the ride I use french grip (it comes naturally), and after swinging for 10~15m my thumb starts to get sore. after looking at my technique I realized I was pushing the stick down with my thumb on the skip note. after that I started to use the wrist for the skip note, but it also gets sore in few minutes, even at low tempos. I'll just keep practicing both techniques at slow tempos until I get comfortable with them. thanks for the help, I've already looked into jack dejohnette, thanks.

Well I have been taught by a top UK teacher called Dave Hassell, who teaches to use the whole arm with the elbow from side to side when doing uptempo ride cymbal playing. I find if I'm just using my wrist and fingers, that fatigue sets in for me personally, and it's better to use the arm, wrist and fingers in conjuction with each other. You can see people like Tony Williams, Jack deJohnette and even Steve Smith doing it on his Drum Legacy DVD.

Watch Tony on here at around 1:15:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVf9McCjT3s

I know there's a slowed down version of Tony playing uptempo on youtube, but for the actual motion, this video is better.

But in answer to your question about slower tempos, I'd say that I use my wrist and fingers mainly, and then at around 140-150, my arm comes into play as well. I like to listen to people like Jimmy Cobb and Philly Joe Jones, just to listen to their ride cymbal. I have actually transcribed Jack DeJohnette playing on some Michael Brecker cd's, and just try to copy his cymbal lines. Highly recommended.

I also highly recommend Jim Blackley's book "Essence of Jazz Drumming" which has lots of practical material but in the intro, he goes over the whole way of articulating the cymbal line with strong and weak pulses, I have been taught that with the regular cymbal pattern the quarter notes are played about F-FF, while the skip notes are at PPP. It has helped my feel, sound and time no end.
 

tim1987

Member
Well I have been taught by a top UK teacher called Dave Hassell, who teaches to use the whole arm with the elbow from side to side when doing uptempo ride cymbal playing. I find if I'm just using my wrist and fingers, that fatigue sets in for me personally, and it's better to use the arm, wrist and fingers in conjuction with each other. You can see people like Tony Williams, Jack deJohnette and even Steve Smith doing it on his Drum Legacy DVD.

Watch Tony on here at around 1:15:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVf9McCjT3s

I know there's a slowed down version of Tony playing uptempo on youtube, but for the actual motion, this video is better.

But in answer to your question about slower tempos, I'd say that I use my wrist and fingers mainly, and then at around 140-150, my arm comes into play as well. I like to listen to people like Jimmy Cobb and Philly Joe Jones, just to listen to their ride cymbal. I have actually transcribed Jack DeJohnette playing on some Michael Brecker cd's, and just try to copy his cymbal lines. Highly recommended.

I also highly recommend Jim Blackley's book "Essence of Jazz Drumming" which has lots of practical material but in the intro, he goes over the whole way of articulating the cymbal line with strong and weak pulses, I have been taught that with the regular cymbal pattern the quarter notes are played about F-FF, while the skip notes are at PPP. It has helped my feel, sound and time no end.
 
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RicardoG

Junior Member
I have a question regarding this video (up tempo ride playing).

In art of bop drumming, john riley says that the skip note must be lower in volume in relation with the quarter notes (1 2 a3 4a). but with this technique, that I've been learning to apply at all speeds (including low), when collecting the stick I can't get a lower volume than the next wrist stroke (being the skip note the one that's collected with the fingers, and the quarter note with the wrist). my question is, at a lower speed, is it correct to use this technique? (in the video, demonstrating at a lower speed, the skip note is at the same volume as the others)

thanks
 

Freddie Freeloader

Pioneer Member
dear john,
wow, i've been working on all three of your books for a while and i really need to get this dvd! the samples look great! thanks for continuing to put out so much great material and helping us all get so much better at playing drums. i owe you a lot!
 

tim1987

Member
Well I have had this DVD for a fortnight and have to say it's probably one of the best DVD's a jazz drummer could buy. Though anyone could benefit from it. Really well thought out.

What is so good about this DVD is that it's one of the only jazz drum educational dvds out there.

There is so much stuff to work on, and I really like the section on Creativity by using some of the classic solo phrases used by the great masters. I'm also so sure that the exercise on Latin Rhythms- that the first groove is off Sonny Rollins' "St Thomas", a great Max Roach calypso groove. Though I could be wrong. I will be learning that.

Highly recommended!
 
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rootheart

Senior Member
Hey everyone,

I just wanted to direct you to a little transcription of one of John's solos that Bernhard was so kind to post up.

Here is the link:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnrileysolo.html

Many thanks to Bernhard and to Mr. Riley for helping to make it possible!

Enjoy!!

Terry
Thank you all indefinitely for both the samples and the transcription!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love the groups of 7 in line #5, which I could not have figured out by myself by just listening...!
I can´t wait to get the DVD, but unfortunately it is not available in germany yet. Amazon germany does feature it, but labeled as "not available". (sad smiley)
 

jon e rotten

Senior Member
just got the DVD...fantastic...really what i've been looking for..

p.s. great interview in the July Modern Drummer, one of the best i've read in awhile
 
Funky Jazzer:

You asked about 3-beat exercises similar to what you found in John's Workshop book. Near the back of 4-Way Coordination is a short chapter on playing 3-beat ideas in 4/4, using them on the ride cymbal, like Elvin and Tony.

I remember the chapter well. Mr. Dahlgren was only accepting students from the University of Minnesota. But I used to nag at him to give me lessons. Offhandedly, he told me to learn the chapter of which I am describing. I almost had a friggin' aneurism, but I managed to do it. So, Marv had to teach me. It's funny...what you can do when you have to.
 

Bernhard

Founder Drummerworld
Re: JOHN RILEY here: new DVD

It's great, that John Riley joined our Forum - for some time already - and also in other threads.

Just now i put up in collaboration with John and ALFRED
samples from the new DVD:

MASTER DRUMMER - How to practice, play and think like a pro.

The samples include the Headroom Concept, Max Roach Patterns and a short solo...

Here:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnrileyheadroom1.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnrileysolo.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnrileymaxroach.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnrileyheadroom2.html

This a really a great and very helpful DVD - not only for Jazz Players...was not easy to choose the samples from so much great content....

I strongly recommend this DVD for every serious drummer - work for years waiting - but the learning curve started for me already after five minutes....

Bernhard

 
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Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
Re: Question Regarding "Jazz Drummer's Workshop" by John Riley

I should add, Lloyd, that a lot of the stuff on the DVD answers your question.
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
Re: Question Regarding "Jazz Drummer's Workshop" by John Riley

Lloyd,

You can do Stone with the right foot, left hand playing a jazz interpretation of the sticking. I think Alan Dawson had it the other way around.

I got a good one for ya'

You can play the sticking with a jazz interpretation using your feet and then play all of the triplet partials with your left hand. downbeat, trip, let, down beat - trip, trip - let, downbeat - let, quarter note triplet partials, etc.

Of course it goes without saying that you could put the two exercises together and play the partials with the high hat. :)
 
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FunkyJazzer

Senior Member
Re: Question Regarding "Jazz Drummer's Workshop" by John Riley

No, I never studied with Alan. I stumbled upon this while varying some of the many coordination approaches Joe Morello taught me to Stick Control. I recall doing it in a practice room at North Texas in 1972 or 73. As I was practicing it, my teacher there, John Gates, knocked on the door and asked me if I was practicing the 4-Way book - it sounded like that to him - but I had not seen Marvin's book at that point.
Brilliant.

Would you care to share at least a taste of those Joe Morello coordination exercises with us? You don't have to if you don't feel it fair.

Funnily enough, I bought Marvin's book at the same time I bought Beyond Bop. It's just...ridiculous. I don't think any other inanimate object has ever caused me so much agony. My plan is to limber up my 4-way coordination with Beyond Bop, Jazz Drummer's Workshop and the completion of Alan Dawson's ways to use Syncopation, then I'll tackle 4-Way Coordination full-throttle.


Lloyd.
 

John Riley

DRUMMERWORLD PRO DRUMMER
Re: Question Regarding "Jazz Drummer's Workshop" by John Riley

Hi Lloyd,

No, I never studied with Alan. I stumbled upon this while varying some of the many coordination approaches Joe Morello taught me to Stick Control. I recall doing it in a practice room at North Texas in 1972 or 73. As I was practicing it, my teacher there, John Gates, knocked on the door and asked me if I was practicing the 4-Way book - it sounded like that to him - but I had not seen Marvin's book at that point.

I wonder if Alan was a student of G.L. Stone at the same time Morello was...

Best,

John
 

FunkyJazzer

Senior Member
Re: Question Regarding "Jazz Drummer's Workshop" by John Riley

there is only one version of the DVD and it is in fact "all" region code 0.
What?! Why didn't anyone tell me?!

*Buys*


OK that should be here soon, hopefully :D


By the way, just out of interest - is this an Alan Dawson thing by any chance?:

Lloyd, those phrases are an out-growth of playing page 5 of the Stick Control book between my feet in quarter-note triplets and filling in the other 1/8 note triplets on the snare drum.
I read somewhere that you studied with him...
 

John Riley

DRUMMERWORLD PRO DRUMMER
Re: Question Regarding "Jazz Drummer's Workshop" by John Riley

Hi Lloyd,

Yes, Beyond Bop is challenging. Stick with it and there will be more revelations...

Regardless of the way amazon and some sites list the DVD, there is only one version of the DVD and it is in fact "all" region code 0.

Best,

John
 
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