Jazz players - did we get this right?

keep it simple

Platinum Member
Not a double post attempt (as this video appears in a multi video thread in the drums section), but a burning curiosity re: opinions from Jazz players. This is the first time we've featured a kit at around bop tuning in a video, & I've not had any reaction from the jazz fraternity here. Please chime in, brutally honestly, as I'm keen to learn. Tuning - did we hit the mark?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XojpGAmH4NI

Good headphones essential, & select full screen/HD for best sound. No audio manipulation whatsoever.

Thank you in anticipation, Andy.
 

StaggerLee

Silver Member
Ok in complete honesty:

1st tuning: Loved the bass, liked the snare but just couldnt get on with the toms.... I don't know why....

2nd tuning: Liked the bass, snare i didn't like, toms I did.

For me? Id have the bass and snare from first tuning, toms from second tuning and burst into a round of sing sing sing. Just my 1p

ps your yolanda vid was AWESOME btw
 
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keep it simple

Platinum Member
Ok in complete honesty:

1st tuning: Loved the bass, liked the snare but just couldnt get on with the toms.... I don't know why....

2nd tuning: Liked the bass, snare i didn't like, toms I did.

For me? Id have the bass and snare from first tuning, toms from second tuning and burst into a round of sing sing sing. Just my 1p

ps your yolanda vid was AWESOME btw
Thanks for this :) It's really the first tuning I'm interested in with respect to typical jazz requirements. The second tuning is more medium pop/rock.

Personally, I'm in love with the tom sounds in the first tuning. Much much more tone than is usually the case in such tunings, but maybe that's a negative in a jazz context? This is the reason I'm asking the question here. I can get any sound I like from these drums. The headroom is almost endless, but I'm always nervous about tuning for a genre that's not my own, because I'm not completely sure what I'm listening for.
 

StaggerLee

Silver Member
It all sounds good, every tuning. Just not MY choice, thats not to say other jazzers wont. I know a lot of jazzers really like the high tuning and total cranking of snares etc. I prefer a bit of low end on my toms, just because when im playing swing or big band and im hitting those toms i want people to be tapping there feet with it, and find with a higher tuning it just doesnt feel right for a foot tap. But the first tuning would feel right at home witht he vijay iyer trio and such.
 

adamosmianski

Senior Member
I never really liked when people say "bop tuning". I get what it implies, but not all of the bop guys played with their drums tuned really high. Some of those dudes had huge drums. Listen to Philly Joe on Blue Trane. His drums are really low and boomy. Max Roach's, on the other hand are usually pretty high. So I don't think you should really worry about "bop tuning". If you like the sound of them, then great!

For my personal taste, I think the toms sounded really good; almost too good, if you know what I mean. It might be the mic-ing, but they sort of have that DW, really clean studio sound to them, whereas I personally like a little bit of edge. Maybe you used one of those tune bots, or something? Because they sound absolutely perfect. I rather tune them by ear and have them be the tiniest bit off. Don't get me wrong though. They sound great!

The bass drum I loved. Nothing more to say.

Again, this is just my preference, and I'm picturing these drums at a jazz gig. So, in that instance the snare drum is way too dry and cracky for my taste. I like to hear a fatter sound with more snare response.

The drums sound great though, and are beautiful. Great work!
 

WhoIsTony?

Member
I think both sound great all around and would fit well in many applications and musical situations

the first tuning with the coated heads had a very vintage sound ... almost as if they were calf heads on some of those old thin shells .... I dig

bass drums are tricky at higher tunings and you did a great job

they are not exactly how I would tune .....but who cares about that ... they sound fantastic

.... side note... great hi hat cymbals in both vids
 
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JerryOnDrums

Senior Member
I can absolutely hear the first tuning as a great contemporary big band kit, a la UNT One 'O Clock Lab Band style. Very nice. For my personal taste, I like more of the Bill Stewart sound for a small group sound, i.e. higher tuning overall (P5 on toms, usually) and a hollow-er bass drum sound.

The kit sounds great though!
 

keep it simple

Platinum Member
Thank you so much for the replies thus far guys. You're the experts, that's why I'm coming to you for advice.

Sorry about using the term "bop" out of context - showing my ignorance.

Tuning was accurate, & I shoot for that to display the fundamental of the shell. I'm getting that it's a bit pure/sweet for some tastes - taken on board. The purity is also very much to do with the special construction of this kit. Origin is all about overtone control. Sure, you can "dirty" it up by adjusting redo head to batter head intervals, & you can make it "sour" by the same mechanism, but it's focus is pure fundamental.

Maybe Origin is a bit too much towards the tuned percussion/musical end of the scale for some tastes. Next time, I think we'll offer up the In-Tense in a similar tuning for comparison purposes, there's much more by way of overtone involvement (the overtones you want, not the errant high overtones you don't).

Messages/preferences/corrections/education taken on board. Please keep them coming :)
 

Bruce M. Thomson

Gold Member
As a long time listener of jazz I have noticed that there has been a move towards a drier sound by new upcoming players; I have been hearing this on the local jazz station of late so the dry sound on the snare sounded very nice to me and the toms and bass did as well.
Scott Amendola's playing on the Charlie Hunter disc
Not Getting Behind is The New Getting Ahead came to mind.
You went with a 20 rather than an 18 bass drum which is a good choice as it will make it an all around kit for various styles.
It seems to me that you would be able to achieve the sound you want anyway with choice of heads & tuning.
Beautiful drums.
 

groove1

Silver Member
Very nice recordings you made there! Jazz comes in too many "flavors" to say that one tuning is it and the other isn't etc. The equipment and tunings I would use for a piano trio are different than with an organ group with horns and so on. Your drums sound fantastic! I can imagine them being used as you have them tuned in different contexts but we all have "the sound" we are after and I would tune them differently, but each of us would. I tend not to tune
snare drums as tightly...but it depends. I too, really like the hats. I tend to have an "older school" sound in my head so might not tune them the way a younger cat would. Again,
great drums there!
 

Muckster

Platinum Member
The first tuning is what i like to hear in regards to a traditional Jazz sound.
The second tuning, to my ear, would work very well in all scenarios.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
I played the vid on my 700 watt system.
Both kits sounded awesome!
I tune my 65 Slingerland kit with the 18" BD very much like the first kit in your vid.
Great drums, and a great job presenting them.
 

Red Menace

Platinum Member
Without the big kit tuned up nice and high with coated heads this video is just a sham. A well played and excellently crafted sham.
 

GeoB

Gold Member
Tuned high first segment sounded very nice. I especially enjoy a bass drum that has a bit of ring to it rather than the muffler.
The snare was nice as well. Every drum was balanced with each other. The cymbals on the first set were absolutely outstanding, great capture.

The 2nd segment was tuned to my preferred tension and again, very pleasant to the ear. I would have liked to here the first drummer play the 2nd set verses the groove drummer featured. Just for comparison of the set, shifting styles was fine, but my comparison sort of stopped at that point.

What would have been awesome would be to seat a Sid Catlett, Shelly Mann, or even a Jeff Hamilton style of percussionist behind the kit.

Nicely done!

Thanks

gb
 
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8Mile

Platinum Member
I think they sound great. It's not the tuning I would use, necessarily, but as others have pointed out, there's no single right way. Terrific sound.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I think the mark of a great set of drums is if it will do any and all tunings. I'm pretty sure Guru's can do that - you got it right. Although I can see the jazz tuning pushed to the extreme as some kind of stereo-typical joke played on jazz musicians ;)

You haven't shown us the Guru single-headed tuning yet, though.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
I think the mark of a great set of drums is if it will do any and all tunings. I'm pretty sure Guru's can do that - you got it right. Although I can see the jazz tuning pushed to the extreme as some kind of stereo-typical joke played on jazz musicians ;)

You haven't shown us the Guru single-headed tuning yet, though.
They sound beautiful to me. I'm sure Thinly Veiled Drums would sound great as concerts too, but I haven't tried it ... yet :)
 

keep it simple

Platinum Member
Although I can see the jazz tuning pushed to the extreme as some kind of stereo-typical joke played on jazz musicians ;)
Thanks Bo, but the higher tuning wasn't even close to the tonal or dynamic choke point of these drums. They'll crank up at least an extra half octave, maybe a bit more, & still deliver a full & satisfying tone.

As for concert toms - Grrrrrrr

Bo, did you notice the 18" hats on the second part of the video?

They sound beautiful to me. I'm sure Thinly Veiled Drums would sound great as concerts too, but I haven't tried it ... yet :)
Thanks Grea. Hopefully, those sounds were familiar to you ;) Please don't encourage the rodent imitator, he's already bad enough as it is! ;)

I think they sound great. It's not the tuning I would use, necessarily, but as others have pointed out, there's no single right way. Terrific sound.
Thank you Larry. Difficult to encompass everyone's tastes. I'm just happy to get a higher tuning capture out there, because it's not something you see very often.

I would have liked to here the first drummer play the 2nd set verses the groove drummer featured. Just for comparison of the set, shifting styles was fine, but my comparison sort of stopped at that point.
Point taken, & thank you for your kind words. The idea of the second player & tuning was to show the same kit in a typical pop/light rock tuning, hence the change in playing styles. We changed the hoops & moved from G1 coated to G2 clear batters too.

Without the big kit tuned up nice and high with coated heads this video is just a sham. A well played and excellently crafted sham.
Message received - maybe next time :)

I played the vid on my 700 watt system.
Both kits sounded awesome!
I tune my 65 Slingerland kit with the 18" BD very much like the first kit in your vid.
Great drums, and a great job presenting them.
Thanks Bob :) Both captures were the same kit, but with different heads, hoops, & tuning.

The first tuning is what i like to hear in regards to a traditional Jazz sound.
The second tuning, to my ear, would work very well in all scenarios.
That's exactly what I was hoping to demonstrate :)

Your drums sound fantastic! I can imagine them being used as you have them tuned in different contexts but we all have "the sound" we are after and I would tune them differently, but each of us would.
Thank you :) My aim was to show strong flexibility within a single kit. Of course, there's too many combination possibilities to ever cover in a single video. On dryness compared to many recordings, there's no reverb on these recordings (or anything else). Just a touch of reverb would lift things quite a bit, but it's not what we do.

You went with a 20 rather than an 18 bass drum which is a good choice as it will make it an all around kit for various styles.
It seems to me that you would be able to achieve the sound you want anyway with choice of heads & tuning.
Beautiful drums.
Thank you Bruce :) Ref: comment above about reverb & how brutally honest this recording is. I personally prefer a 20" bass drum over an 18" in just about any situation. Many 20" drums can't get that higher yet satisfying tone that an 18" can deliver, but done right, they can easily, but so much more too. The player demonstrating the first tuning has one of our 20" x 12" deep bass drums, & that covers a huge range of styles, & each with total credibility too.
 

drum4fun27302

Gold Member
Not a jazz purist (or anything for that matter !!). I would have used the 1st kit with the 2nd kit snare. Only other thing I would have done is lower the 1st kit's floor tom,
Basically , keep 1st kit's kick and hi tom , lower floor tom and use second kit's snare :)
 
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