It's official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

Fuo

Platinum Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

I just want to say that I never intended to troll but re-reading the thread I think that has been the effect - sorry.

Do any of your songs mention taking swords to trolls?
I love metal. But I also totally agree with what you said... The image can be cheesy, but like what was said above, you don't take that part of it too seriously.
 
M

mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

No trollishness detected here. It's good to discuss these things!
 

Too Many Songs

Senior Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

I just want to say that I never intended to troll but re-reading the thread I think that has been the effect - sorry.

Do any of your songs mention taking swords to trolls?
 

PQleyR

Platinum Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

There's loads of metal that isn't like that if you look at power and folk metal. I myself am in two bands that sing (implicitly or otherwise) about dragons and swords and wizards and things like that. But it's definitely still metal. We aren't condoning swords or the use of magic to harm people, but we are highlighting the issues for other people to think about it.
 

Fuo

Platinum Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

You've found me out... True there isn't a great deal of thrash metal in my record collection : - ).

But here's a semi-serious point. Part of the reason why I don't go out and buy thrash metal (I should - there is some amazing technical mastery on display by drummers and other musicians) is that I can't get past the aggressive and macho image. It implicitly at least advocates violence and misanthropy. It isn't just metal of course - if anything contemporary rap artists are worse in that misogyny and homophobia are often added to the brand. I would never buy a record (and thereby add some minor level of support) to an artist who described women as 'hoes' or 'bitches' or advocated killing gays. I'm too sensitive I'm sure and shouldn't take all this at all seriously. Feel free to flame.

I might start a thread on this if I can be bothered. Which I probably can't.
I was going to reply to this about how not all metal is like this... But after a quick scan through my iPod I only came up with 1, maybe 2 examples, so nevermind :)

Well... you may want to check out Cynic... and possibly Gojira.
 

PQleyR

Platinum Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

Returning to the topic, I assume this is Dave playing his new Ludwigs. I must say he's playing better than ever these days, when I saw them in Slovenia earlier this year I noticed lots of new flourishes in his playing, little drum & bass-type elements that he didn't use to do...it's very interesting, I think it sounds great.
 

Mark_S

Silver Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

You are going to think I'm soft - but I don't watch or like horror films. I suppose it's a manifestation of the same thing - I just get really disturbed (upset) by the portrayal of acts of violence. I was one of those kids who hid behind the sofa during Dr Who (the cybermen - they were f**king terrifying).

For what it's worth, from what I've heard of Slayer they are musicians in the first rank and their arrangements are nuanced and beautifully executed.
Ironically you look kinda spooky in your avatar because of the lighting! From what I can make out you remind me of Spock a little bit from Star Trek :)
 

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

You are going to think I'm soft - but I don't watch or like horror films. I suppose it's a manifestation of the same thing - I just get really disturbed (upset) by the portrayal of acts of violence. I was one of those kids who hid behind the sofa during Dr Who (the cybermen - they were f**king terrifying).

For what it's worth, from what I've heard of Slayer they are musicians in the first rank and their arrangements are nuanced and beautifully executed.
Nah that's cool, each to his own on matters of taste.

They are a great band and Lombardo is one helluva drummer.
 

Too Many Songs

Senior Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

You don't have to take any of it seriously and can laugh at what you like. But these guys are not advocating violence and purchasing their CD's is not funding the advocacy of violence. Do you take a good straightforward horror movie seriously, or just laugh at it; or just enjoy the ride?
You are going to think I'm soft - but I don't watch or like horror films. I suppose it's a manifestation of the same thing - I just get really disturbed (upset) by the portrayal of acts of violence. I was one of those kids who hid behind the sofa during Dr Who (the cybermen - they were f**king terrifying).

For what it's worth, from what I've heard of Slayer they are musicians in the first rank and their arrangements are nuanced and beautifully executed.
 

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

This is all really confusing :) Bottom line - is it OK if I laugh at their image (as long as I take their music seriously)?
What's confusing? You don't have to take any of it seriously and can laugh at what you like. But these guys are not advocating violence and purchasing their CD's is not funding the advocacy of violence. Do you take a good straightforward horror movie seriously, or just laugh at it; or just enjoy the ride?
 

PQleyR

Platinum Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

You can laugh at both, I think they do themselves. I certainly used to, I thought Angel of Death was one of the funniest things I'd ever heard when I first heard it...but over time, coupled with appreciation of the technical side of it, I just plain liked listening to it. Same thing happened for me with Rhapsody of Fire, although the ridiculous aspect is obviously quite different...
 

Too Many Songs

Senior Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

There's not much that's ironic about Slayer's name or attitude. It's not "SERIOUS MESSAGE!!!" band, but not really ironic. They don't really advocate using dead people's faces as masks but they're not trying to satirise and deconstruct Ed Gein either. They're just telling stories and relaying the grotesque, because people in general, including them, have a fascination with horrible things. They have fun and let off steam. It's just another way of telling creepy horror stories (that may be true or not!) and ghost tales around a campfire. Well. Sorta-ish...
This is all really confusing :) Bottom line - is it OK if I laugh at their image (as long as I take their music seriously)?
 

Duckenheimer

Senior Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

Fair point - the problem with irony is that some people see the ironic use and others miss it and treat it literally - the old Alf Garnett as object of ridicule or worship type thing.

Lacking sophistication as I do I tend to fall into the second camp which as you say leads me to make unfounded assertions about the 'message' in thrash metal. It never occurred to me that the name 'Slayer' was being used ironically which is foolish of me because there is a very long pedigree of bands deliberately adopting ironic names (including of course 'Led Zeppelin').
There's not much that's ironic about Slayer's name or attitude. It's not "SERIOUS MESSAGE!!!" band, but not really ironic. They don't really advocate using dead people's faces as masks but they're not trying to satirise and deconstruct Ed Gein either. They're just telling stories and relaying the grotesque, because people in general, including them, have a fascination with horrible things. They have fun and let off steam. It's just another way of telling creepy horror stories (that may be true or not!) and ghost tales around a campfire. Well. Sorta-ish...
 
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Too Many Songs

Senior Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

Yes, I know, it was just an excuse to post the video!



With this in mind, isn't it interesting that metal fans tend to be (at least in my experience) very friendly people with an interest in helping others and generally being...nice? Often much more so than other groups of people united by a genre of music.
Certainly in Europe I get the impression that most people are in on the joke...because it isn't taken totally seriously by anyone except for a few extreme fringe elements, which is true in anything. Slayer certainly don't take what they do that seriously from what I've seen. Perhaps this can be explained thus...metal that uses violent imagery is commenting, by and large, (consciously or unconsciously) on the undeniable violence, isolation, and inequality of life in the 21st century...not condoning it. To suggest that it implicitly advocates it simply by mentioning it seems to me a logically unsound argument.
Fair point - the problem with irony is that some people see the ironic use and others miss it and treat it literally - the old Alf Garnett as object of ridicule or worship type thing.

Lacking sophistication as I do I tend to fall into the second camp which as you say leads me to make unfounded assertions about the 'message' in thrash metal. It never occurred to me that the name 'Slayer' was being used ironically which is foolish of me because there is a very long pedigree of bands deliberately adopting ironic names (including of course 'Led Zeppelin').
 
M

mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

I've spent a lot of time with the 'metal' crowd. Played in bands, gone out drinking with, went to college with even.

What Ben says is absolutely true. Very few metal fans (and indeed bands) take what they do seriously. Most of them know it's ridiculous, most of them know how funny it is. They're in on the joke and although the joke isn't funny it starts being funny when people take it very seriously.
 

PQleyR

Platinum Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

That's not his kit though. All the drummers who were part of The Groove Remains The Same played on the same kit, which was a John Bonham replica kit.
Yes, I know, it was just an excuse to post the video!

You've found me out... True there isn't a great deal of thrash metal in my record collection : - ).

But here's a semi-serious point. Part of the reason why I don't go out and buy thrash metal (I should - there is some amazing technical mastery on display by drummers and other musicians) is that I can't get past the aggressive and macho image. It implicitly at least advocates violence and misanthropy. It isn't just metal of course - if anything contemporary rap artists are worse in that misogyny and homophobia are often added to the brand. I would never buy a record (and thereby add some minor level of support) to an artist who described women as 'hoes' or 'bitches' or advocated killing gays. I'm too sensitive I'm sure and shouldn't take all this at all seriously. Feel free to flame.

I might start a thread on this if I can be bothered. Which I probably can't.
With this in mind, isn't it interesting that metal fans tend to be (at least in my experience) very friendly people with an interest in helping others and generally being...nice? Often much more so than other groups of people united by a genre of music.
Certainly in Europe I get the impression that most people are in on the joke...because it isn't taken totally seriously by anyone except for a few extreme fringe elements, which is true in anything. Slayer certainly don't take what they do that seriously from what I've seen. Perhaps this can be explained thus...metal that uses violent imagery is commenting, by and large, (consciously or unconsciously) on the undeniable violence, isolation, and inequality of life in the 21st century...not condoning it. To suggest that it implicitly advocates it simply by mentioning it seems to me a logically unsound argument.
 

Too Many Songs

Senior Member
Re: Its official, Dave Lombardo is with Ludwig.

Thrash metal not really your thing, I take it?
You've found me out... True there isn't a great deal of thrash metal in my record collection : - ).

But here's a semi-serious point. Part of the reason why I don't go out and buy thrash metal (I should - there is some amazing technical mastery on display by drummers and other musicians) is that I can't get past the aggressive and macho image. It implicitly at least advocates violence and misanthropy. It isn't just metal of course - if anything contemporary rap artists are worse in that misogyny and homophobia are often added to the brand. I would never buy a record (and thereby add some minor level of support) to an artist who described women as 'hoes' or 'bitches' or advocated killing gays. I'm too sensitive I'm sure and shouldn't take all this at all seriously. Feel free to flame.

I might start a thread on this if I can be bothered. Which I probably can't.
 
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