How does Gavin do this?

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ATD9vTHSE

It's Gavin on Letterman during drum solo week doing "The Chicken"

I know that "The Chicken" is a 16 bar form.

Sometime I get a solo on this same tune. Either at bar one or bar 9. Which makes it harder for me. I have resorted to playing my solo sans form, but keeping the time chugging along, and looking at the leader for when he is going to hit the figure. I cheat. I want to know where I am when I solo.

I see Gavin has in ear monitors.

I'm guessing there has to be a click or something. The way the band hits the figure perfectly...after 16 bars...has to be lined up, right? He (and the rest of the band) are not just counting in their heads, right?

I'm pretty good knowing the form of a song. Except when I solo. ALL my brainpower goes to trying to make something sound interesting. But I lose the form. Right now, I can't do both for more than about 8 bars.

So just do 2 - 8 bar solos right? Sounds stupid easy on paper, but try as I might, I just default to my previous behavior, which is to suck at solos.

In most drumsolos, that's OK if the form gets lost, the drummer can take however long they want.

Not in my band. The bandleader insists on me keeping any form intact...and I really struggle with it. I can't actually do it on a 16 bar form. I can do 4 and 8 though. I can do 8 bars and keep count. For some reason, after 8...I'm drifting out to sea lol. This is actually very theraputic lol

WhoIs? gave me some great tips, but TBH, they go right out the window when I solo. Not because they're bad tips, because I can't do them yet. It's a mental thing, I know this. I default to the wrong headspace, instead of playing 2 progressions of say "Jingle Bells" for instance. (Jingle Bells is 8 bars) Jingle Bells is not even anywhere near my head 1 second before the solo lol.

I stand in awe of drummers who can make up a solo (not pre rehearsed) and be able to make nice sounding phrases, and still keep form totally perfect, all by themselves.

My question here is, how did Gavin do that?

My biggest problem while soloing is I get nervous. I'm pulled out of any zone I was in, and now I have to step up. I hate pressure. I don't like being the center of attention for more than a few seconds, (unless it's written into the song, no problem there lol) so for me, solos = social anxiety. I'm putting 100% ME out there. My solos are so unsatisfying. I don't do flashy triplets or "wow" stuff, I try and play melodically, (I suck at melody! I never studied it!) which usually misses the mark, and which doesn't do thing one for the people watching (a guess). Sometimes I will hit on a rhythmic jungle thing that seems to be the best thing I do, so you'd think I'd go for that all the time, but yea, no.

So after writing all this, I realize my biggest problem isn't a solution to to problem, I have that, it's dealing with the anxiety. On paper I know what to do. Jingle Bells. Once or twice. When it comes time to solo, I stiffen right up. How do you guys remedy this?

Most guys I see have zero problem with this, they love the spotlight. They are relaxed, they take their time....I'm a ball of nerves when I solo. Not relaxed, totally hamstringing myself, yet I can't help it.

HELP!
 
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Practice methods, man, practice methods.

Notice that GH uses a lot of cross-rhythms as he solos, meaning that, although the time signature of the tune is kept in 4/4, he's often playing another time signature at the same time, like 3/16 or 3/8 or 5/16. And yes, the band is counting through all of this time signature craziness, no click required. Even if there were a click, it wouldn't matter; Paul Schafer is not going to be thrown off by cross-rhythms, and neither is his band. Through one particularly hairy part, GH keeps time with the left foot on the hi-hat, which is helpful, since that part is VERY syncopated.

The good news is that anyone can learn to play this way, and to keep form when others play this way. Although some may learn it "organically" (from a young age, on the bandstand), others can learn it by practicing in such a way that you learn to keep track of two time signatures at the same time.

Personally, I like both approaches to soloing -- they each have their place and offer certain advantages.
 
Larry, have you tried counting/accenting 1's as a place to start for solos? Hit the one hard, then do something else for the rest of the measure, then do it again. Eventually, you'll "feel" it just the same way you know where to change in a 12 bar blues. Nobody counts, that, they feel it by practice and familiarity.

You just need to get familiar with keeping track on your own.
 
Cross rhythms throw me quickly Brent, like a bull bucking a rider off lol. I am completely baffled, over my head, out of my league. It amazes me that they can KEEP THEIR PLACE. I can't believe you guys are saying there is no click. It pisses me off lol. My inadequacies lol.
 
Larry, have you tried counting/accenting 1's as a place to start for solos? Hit the one hard, then do something else for the rest of the measure, then do it again. Eventually, you'll "feel" it just the same way you know where to change in a 12 bar blues. Nobody counts, that, they feel it by practice and familiarity.

You just need to get familiar with keeping track on your own.

Lecture me about social anxiety instead man. They are good nuts and bolts, but I need something larger.
 
I hope you don't think I was trying to patronize. I really do that all the time. If I have a specific number of measures to get through by myself, I tend to pick an anchor point and accent that point so that both I and the audience and band have a point of reference.

The other thing I'll do if it's for an original or something I play a lot, is work out the whole solo and make sure to put a "reminder" bar at the end for the rest of the band. Sometimes they zone out even though they shouldn't. I heard lots of those little lead-in things in the example you posted here.
 
Oh God no. No I got your intention. You give great advice. So does Tony. Only I can't use it until I crack another nut. I am unable to think logically while soloing more than 8 bars. I am totally in the wrong half of my brain, and I think I'm stuck there.

I will admit, I am imagining your anchor point thing, and I can see how I can make that work. Sitting here. At home. But when I go to solo, what then?

I am unable to do a pre worked out solo. Not in the cards. I do think a general outline may work though. I don't have the discipline to remember an exact progression of drum events with no outside markers, and forget sight reading
 
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With tons of respect, I don't see what's stopping you. It's like you've built up your own mental block on the subject and decided that you're just not good at this. Attack it from different ways until you're happy with something!

I suspect that Gavin worked this whole thing out way ahead, and practiced with that band at least a few go-rounds. Each theme he worked into the solo was both specific, and a certain number of measures... This is also a very valid way of doing it. Think of your little solo as if it was it's own "song structure"... Think of it like "A-A-B-A-B-B-C" or whatever structure you go with. Then it's no different from keeping track of how a song goes, only it's a little song with no other instruments save drums!
 
What's stopping you from practicing cross-rhythms? Do you not know where to start? This is not as difficult as you think it is, although it probably seems that way to you now.

EDIT: This is also the sort of thing you can practice away from the kit pretty easily.
 
What's stopping you from practicing cross-rhythms? Do you not know where to start? This is not as difficult as you think it is, although it probably seems that way to you now.

EDIT: This is also the sort of thing you can practice away from the kit pretty easily.

Brent, I don't even know what a cross rhythm is. I really need a teacher lol
 
With tons of respect, I don't see what's stopping you. It's like you've built up your own mental block on the subject and decided that you're just not good at this. Attack it from different ways until you're happy with something!

I suspect that Gavin worked this whole thing out way ahead, and practiced with that band at least a few go-rounds. Each theme he worked into the solo was both specific, and a certain number of measures... This is also a very valid way of doing it. Think of your little solo as if it was it's own "song structure"... Think of it like "A-A-B-A-B-B-C" or whatever structure you go with. Then it's no different from keeping track of how a song goes, only it's a little song with no other instruments save drums!

You Californians have no idea how bunged up we here on the NorthEast part of the country are lol.

I never know when I will get a solo, I never know what song it will be on, there's no way to prepare as we never use a set list, I have social anxiety, I don't have drummer chops and I suck at melody! I lose the form and I can't think logically playing solos... today....it really doesn't work for me. These are facts lol. I'm not making this up!
 
I have to scoot, be back in about 8 hours
 
Try keeping the 1/4 note on the hat. Do with a metronome or without and sing the melodies while playing "stuff" . Do easy stuff. Then a little harder until you get lost. Then back off a tad and do dtuff where you don't get lost.

Then try to remember what you did when got lost and work on the ideas you had seperately. At a later time try to integrate it to your next solo once you got it down.

Repeat, repeat repeat .....
 
Brent, I don't even know what a cross rhythm is. I really need a teacher lol

Here is an example of a popular cross-rhythm.

1. Play 1/4 notes on the kick at about 100-120 BPM.

2. Play 16th notes with the hands on the snare.

3. Change the sticking pattern from RLRL to RLL while still keeping the 16th note flow going. Accent the right hand for clarity at first.

You are now playing a cross rhythm of 3/16 over 4/4. It's called a cross-rhythm because the phrase that you superimposed on top of 4/4 crosses the bar line until it comes back around to 1 again. This occurs after 3 bars of 4/4 time (48 16th notes as 3 and 16 both divide into 48).

You should be able to feel this cross rhythm in all it's forms without having to count. That skill takes time to develop but it will change your phrasing for the better forever.

Guys like Carter Beauford will take the RLL phrase and convert it into a hairta by adding the the second right hand in between the two lefts. He does this all the time in solos and at the ends of songs ("Ants Marching" live is a great example). He will often keep it going, building the tension until a final release.

Hope this helps.
 
Guys like Carter Beauford will take the RLL phrase and convert it into a hairta by adding the the second right hand in between the two lefts.

Isn't the herta RLR L RLR L etc rather than what you said? It's one of the
fills that Mike Portnoy plays all the time.

Edit: ...and Gavin plays in this exact video with his feet, in his last solo chorus.
 
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Isn't the herta RLR L RLR L etc rather than what you said? It's one of the
fills that Mike Portnoy plays all the time.

There are several stickings possible. The one you described is probably the most popular one.

In all permutations of the hairta, one hand is playing doubles and the other hand is playing 8th notes.
 
My favourite Letterman drummer moment was a long time ago, maybe 20 years? Gina Schock from the Go Go's was there and Anton said, hey why don't you sit in for a tune. Doesn't this happen as Dave is doing the top 10, requiring a nice buzz roll on the snare. I felt for her, and reality is, 90% of drummers cannot do this. She tanked, Letterman got so nasty, yelled at Anton to get the hell back on the kit and told Gina to "go play with your Bangle friends or something". She shrunk to about 2 inches tall, soooo embarrassing.
 
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