Help with trying to soundproof shop building

voldak

Senior Member
I have recently purchased a 12x10 foot storage building that I will be moving to my land for the sole purpose of storing my drums. I don't have the storage building on my lot yet, but I am trying to get some ideas for sound proofing. I live in the US and Lowes is the only close bigger "home improvement" store around.

Here is a link to an album with some pictures.

The building has shingles on top and was built with 2x4s. The shortest part of the pitched roof is 8'. I will have more measurements and information in a few days when it arrives. I will be running electricity to the building and I will also have an air conditioner (probably a stand alone unit that won't be in a window cut out).

My main purpose will be for practicing and for recording. Any basic ideas to get me started?
 

brunohack

Junior Member
Hello Voldak!

I'm Bruno from Curitiba - Brazil and i'm a sound engineer and a drummer.

The place looks great and you won't have no problem in soundproofing it.

I would go by bass trapping all the walls.

I found a website where they give a great explanation:

http://ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html

I did a rehearsal studio back in 2009 using these plans:

http://ethanwiner.com/BTPlans.gif

the result was fantastic for me, great bass for a little room.

I hope it inspires you!

All the best,

Bruno
 

konaboy

Pioneer Member
Plenty of excellent reading material here

http://www.acoustics101.com/


Room within a room, mineral wool insulation not the pink fiberglass stuff. Resilient channel, 5/8 dry wall, seal up all joint gaps, I can see some in the pics all this is discussed in articles that are in the link I posted. Going to be an interesting space to do sound control with because of the angles in the roof. Not going to be cheap to do either, walls, ceiling, floor all will need to be done. Don't be fooled into thinking putting up some acoustic foam, egg crates, moving blankets and such, those only control interior sound reflection not sound from escaping.
 

WallyY

Platinum Member
What level of soundproof do you need?

The floor will be the most difficult.
Maybe two layers of Hardie board with a dampener between, like Green glue, or Home Depot mass loaded vinyl or even just heavy tar paper.

Since it's a stand alone box, maybe just go with R13 insulation and resilient channel under one layer of 5/8 drywall.
If it's not enough you can add another layer of drywall.
 
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WallyY

Platinum Member
You have to lower the resonance of the floor/shed to as low as you can get it. Ideally below the bass drum frequency.
Maybe sit the shed on a foundation of concrete or sand. You might be able to add a few adjustable deck supports below the floor to move the vibrations into the ground. With a lot of mass on the floor and bolted to the deck supports it should solidify the structure.

Mass, Insulation and Isolation is the treatment.

If money is no object, first seal everything with sound caulk or GE silicone II. Every crack.
Then screw Durock to the outside walls between the studs. You need as much mass as possible.
Add insulation. Some say plain old R13 and others say use Roxull.
Install iso clips and hat channel.
Install two layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue in between.
Make sure to leave gaps for all drywall and fill the gaps with Silicone II.
Make sure all screws only go into the hat channel or it will short out the structure.
Paint interior with sound reducing paint. Its the same price as regular paint.
That's it.

Or, if that's way overboard, go with the lesser versions of things like resilient channel, maybe no Green glue, maybe one layer of 5/8 and one of 1/2 instead of two layers of 5/8.

Before any soundproofing, see what it sounds like with no treatment and then gauge how far you want to take it.

It's a lot of work. a very soundproofed room is also a bit unnerving.

I think you get the picture, but it's costly and you need to figure out how much you want to do.

You don't want to spend money to make the walls crazy soundproofed and find that the floor still transfers all the sound through the studs.

If you lock yourself in there, nobody will find you.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
It will be difficult as the structute being timber it has little mass. Mass is a big factor in soundproofing.
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
It will be difficult as the structute being timber it has little mass. Mass is a big factor in soundproofing.
Also, you will have to have a door inside a door. By the time you finish building in the needed mass in a building this size, how much room will really be left for you and your drums in this shed... plus some sort of air exchange, heating/cooling, electricity, etc. All considerations. I have looked at these similar kinds of sheds for my small suburban lot and reluctantly concluded that they would be a less than ideal solution considering what would have to be done to them to get a true soundproof environment.
 

picodon

Silver Member
If you have an existing decent structure, decent I mean stone walls, the soundproofing should not cost more than the kit in my experience if you DIY.

Just to stir up the discussion: this whole ventilation thing is overrated. Any ventilation is a noise leak. My shed is air tight and less than 30 m3 volume and we have played in there during 1.5-2 hours, 4 persons and nobody passed out or felt funny. It's probably easy to do the oxygen consumption math.
Now if you do die because of my advice, don't sue me, it's your own fault :))
 

voldak

Senior Member
You have to lower the resonance of the floor/shed to as low as you can get it. Ideally below the bass drum frequency.
Maybe sit the shed on a foundation of concrete or sand. You might be able to add a few adjustable deck supports below the floor to move the vibrations into the ground. With a lot of mass on the floor and bolted to the deck supports it should solidify the structure.

Mass, Insulation and Isolation is the treatment.

If money is no object, first seal everything with sound caulk or GE silicone II. Every crack.
Then screw Durock to the outside walls between the studs. You need as much mass as possible.
Add insulation. Some say plain old R13 and others say use Roxull.
Install iso clips and hat channel.
Install two layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue in between.
Make sure to leave gaps for all drywall and fill the gaps with Silicone II.
Make sure all screws only go into the hat channel or it will short out the structure.
Paint interior with sound reducing paint. Its the same price as regular paint.
That's it.

Or, if that's way overboard, go with the lesser versions of things like resilient channel, maybe no Green glue, maybe one layer of 5/8 and one of 1/2 instead of two layers of 5/8.

Before any soundproofing, see what it sounds like with no treatment and then gauge how far you want to take it.

It's a lot of work. a very soundproofed room is also a bit unnerving.

I think you get the picture, but it's costly and you need to figure out how much you want to do.

You don't want to spend money to make the walls crazy soundproofed and find that the floor still transfers all the sound through the studs.

If you lock yourself in there, nobody will find you.

The more i've researched, the more this option makes sense.

I really don't have a budget in place yet. With that said, I will definitley have one, it just may take me a lot longer to finish it then I would like. I plan on getting a decibel meter and checking out the sound outside of the shed plain jane.

My original thoughts were to build a room in a room setup or something similar to your list above. I'm curious to see how much these materials will cost altogether. I'm going to get the building first and see how bad it is currently.

Thanks for all of the responses so far!
 

uniongoon

Gold Member
Yes, great outline from Wally. I would strongly suggest getting the structure up off the ground, those pyramid shape concrete deck footings would probably work great. I have a well built room in my basement, it is multi layered floor, wall and ceiling. And it is sound enough where my wife can watch TV outside the room, the impact is still more felt than heard outside just through the direct contact from the walls to the ground.
So having as much of the structure floating will go a long way in keeping peace with the neighbours. Even if they can't hear so much, they may feel the hits on the drums and this will definitely be misdiagnosed as noise.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
If you have an existing decent structure, decent I mean stone walls, the soundproofing should not cost more than the kit in my experience if you DIY.

Just to stir up the discussion: this whole ventilation thing is overrated. Any ventilation is a noise leak. My shed is air tight and less than 30 m3 volume and we have played in there during 1.5-2 hours, 4 persons and nobody passed out or felt funny. It's probably easy to do the oxygen consumption math.
Now if you do die because of my advice, don't sue me, it's your own fault :))
Its not just breathing. With a band in there and no ventilation you will produce lots of condensation, any instruments left in there will suffer, as will the structure over time. A passive vent box, done properly, will solve this. Lots of diagrams and instructions on manufacture.
 

JimFiore

Silver Member
If this shed is sitting directly on the ground and not attached to any other structure, the last thing you'll want to do is raise it up off the ground on footers. If you do that, the entire floor will act as a membrane and excite the air under it.

When I built my studio I found multiple layers of drywall with Green Glue to be very effective and according to trusted design sources (like Rod Gervais) it's likely to be the most cost effective. Given that you aren't starting from scratch and have to work within a relatively tight space, I think the best you're going to get for reasonable $ is to apply hat channel to all of the studs (inc. roof) and then use iso clips to attach two layers of drywall with GG between the layers. Offset the seams and use acoustic caulk.

The entry door will be by far the weakest link in the chain and will need to be improved to match the modified walls. If you leave the door as is, don't even bother with the hat channel, just screw the drywall to the studs (2X w/GG).

A decent entry door might get you an STC of 35 dB. The modified walls might get you over 40, depending on the construction details.

In the summer it's going to be hotter than a monkey's armpit in August in there so be fore-warned.
 

Aeolian

Platinum Member
Double layers of 5/8 sheetrock will be the cheapest part of the whole thing. So don't scrimp there. Buy the Green Glue in a tub and get the applicator gun. For that much area it will be substantially cheaper than cartons of tubes. Iso clips and hat channel are probably the safest technique and will outperform trying to create a separate interior frame unless you really get that just right. Ideal is to put it on a slab. Definitely don't lift it up in the air.

As Jim points out, the door will be by far the weakest link. A double door would be much better if you can deal with one swinging inward. Sealing it and adding mass will improve it most.

Alternatively you can build an entry vestibule using the same construction techniques to create an air space between the two doors. In any event, make sure the door isn't pointed at neighbors. Try to use the distance of your yard to isolate what leaks out from there.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
Lots of talk about Green Glue, what is the technology behind it and how many DBs reduction will it achieve over just two layers of drywall? Is there an exact science regarding application between the layers of dry wall. I have looked on there website but it is mostly technical speak. How and why dous it work and is the application method difficult or exacting?
 

JimFiore

Silver Member
GG works but translating the impinging pressure wave into a shear force. That is, the sound doesn't transmit through the membrane, you can think of it as dissipating across the membrane. unlike caulk, GG doesn't really dry. It stays viscous. Very sticky stuff. Always use disposable gloves when applying it.

Application is easy if you get the tubs and the applicator. It's like an oversize caulking gun and just as easy to use.
 

voldak

Senior Member
If this shed is sitting directly on the ground and not attached to any other structure, the last thing you'll want to do is raise it up off the ground on footers. If you do that, the entire floor will act as a membrane and excite the air under it.

When I built my studio I found multiple layers of drywall with Green Glue to be very effective and according to trusted design sources (like Rod Gervais) it's likely to be the most cost effective. Given that you aren't starting from scratch and have to work within a relatively tight space, I think the best you're going to get for reasonable $ is to apply hat channel to all of the studs (inc. roof) and then use iso clips to attach two layers of drywall with GG between the layers. Offset the seams and use acoustic caulk.

The entry door will be by far the weakest link in the chain and will need to be improved to match the modified walls. If you leave the door as is, don't even bother with the hat channel, just screw the drywall to the studs (2X w/GG).

A decent entry door might get you an STC of 35 dB. The modified walls might get you over 40, depending on the construction details.

In the summer it's going to be hotter than a monkey's armpit in August in there so be fore-warned.
I was considering trying to build off of the floor anyway to help reduce those issues. I had also planned on possibly spacing out a foot or so from the opening door to possibly build another door going inward into the area I will be in.

I'm extremely worried about the air conditioning situation. I've been looking at the portable air conditioners with dehumidifiers, etc. Not sure if those would be really work. It gets upwards of 110 degrees here in the summer, so I have to have something in there.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
GG works but translating the impinging pressure wave into a shear force. That is, the sound doesn't transmit through the membrane, you can think of it as dissipating across the membrane. unlike caulk, GG doesn't really dry. It stays viscous. Very sticky stuff. Always use disposable gloves when applying it.

Application is easy if you get the tubs and the applicator. It's like an oversize caulking gun and just as easy to use.
Would that mean it has to be an even full cover coat of GG between the dry wall sheets?
 

voldak

Senior Member
So, I finally have the building at the house. I have roughly 18" inches in between the studs inside of the building. Should I insulate in between the studs and then add a layer of cement board on the outside then a hat channel or do something different than that?

I ended up needing to raise the structure off of the ground (on cinder blocks) due to leveling and future health of the structure. I can't have it on the ground for a long time due to the runners being wood and they would rot out.

As far as cooling, would this be effective?

Thanks for all of the help so far!
 

WallyY

Platinum Member
That will probably be an effective air conditioner.
I had one of those at one time, but I found it to be a bit of a pain to change the water tray in the bottom.
Mine wasn't especially great, but your shed will be very insulated so it should work.

These are also really nice and the A/C is mounted outside the wall, helping to stop the sound leaking out.
https://www.goductless.com/LG-Air-Conditioners/LSN120HXV-12000-BTU-17-SEER-Ductless-Heat-Pump-Air-Conditioner/43934.ac?gclid=CNLvwd2gnsUCFWRp7AodI2oApw
 
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