Help needed on setup

Hi. Just joined the forum and looking for some advice. Been drumming for around 2 years on a Roland V drum setup. Last week i took the plunge and purchased a Yamaha Rydeen acoustic kit. The trouble i have is i cant seem to get the sound correct. The bass sounds like something from a marching band and the snare and toms seem all over the place. I have tried tuning with a Tune-Bot but cant seemto get to where i want. Not sure if i'm overthiking things, i played guitar for many years and so wonder if i'm thinking about tuning in that respect.

Any ideas of where to start would be great.
 

Morrisman

Platinum Member
Moongel on the toms, a rolled up towel inside the bass drum, touching both heads.
Then experiment with tuning, perhaps loosen the batter heads, including the bass drum. Then its trial and error...
 

PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
Pillow in the kick with some of it resting on the batter-side head.

Before going any further, what kinds of heads are on the kick, snare, and toms? And how worn are they? A pic or 4 would be good. :)
 

Mongrel

Silver Member
Is the kit\heads new or used?

Just a thought....read the "Drum Tuning Bible" that is stickied at the top of the drum gear forum.

Here: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/index.php?threads/drum-tuning-bible.133655/

Also,

For the bass drum-

Batter side (the side the pedal attaches to)-loosen all the tuning rods almost all the way, to where the rods are not putting any pressure on the hoop at all. Now, go back and tighten them up FINGER tight in a criss-crossing or "star" pattern. Once they are finger tight use a key and go one half to one full turn on every rod. Basically you want to remove the "wrinkles". Lift the resonant head off the floor and tap the drum with a stick to see how it sounds. If it still sounds like a "basketball" repeat the above on the resonant head side.

This should get you close to a decent tuning to start with. If you want a more muted or "thuddy" sound follow the advice given above regsrding placng a towel or pillow agaisnt the head\s.

I would do a similar treatment on the toms-loosen both heads, fnger tight, 1/2 to full turn on the tuning rods, test\repeat till satisfied.

Typically your resonant head should be slightly higher or equal in pitch to your batter head.
 
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KEEF

Senior Member
If you can't get even a 'reasonable' sound from the tune bot settings I suggest you stretch the heads some more. Put each drum on the floor and lean on the heads (both palms in the middle) and I mean REALLY lean on em - top and bottom, then re-tune.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Typically your resonant head should be slightly higher or equal in pitch to your batter head.
Not always true. I was taught by an old school jazz guy a long time ago that the reso give the drum it's body, the batter gives attack and note. Loose reso for thuddy, tight reso for boingy. Been tuning this way forever, my toms are low and thuddy, no moongel or tape. A tight reso always is a myth.
 

Drifter in the Dark

Silver Member
They are brand new. They are the ones that cam with the kit from Yamaha.
This could be one of the reasons you're not getting the sound you want. Factory-installed drum heads are usually not the best quality. If you have the money to spend, I'd highly recommend buying a set of professional-grade drum heads (Remo, Evans, Aquarian). Even if you only replace the top (batter) heads, I guarantee you'll hear a difference! They'll also be easier to tune. As far as which types of heads you should get, that's entirely up to you. There are a lot of options out there, and if you need help choosing, of course you can always find tons of info here on the drummerworld forum! I feel like a good general-purpose head setup would be as follows:

Bass drum: Clear single-ply batter with muffling ring (Remo Powerstroke 3, Evans EMAD), Black or Smooth White resonant w/ muffling ring (Powerstroke 3, Evans EQ3)

Toms: Coated or Clear 2-ply batter (Remo Emperor, Evans G2) Clear single-ply resonant (Remo Ambassador, Evans G1)

Snare: Coated single-ply batter (Remo Ambassador, Evans G1), Clear single-ply snare-side (Remo Ambassador Hazy, Evans Snare-Side 300)

You can control the overtones and sustain of each drum by using various types of muffling to suit your personal preference: Moongel, Drum Dots, gaffer tape, etc. Felt strips, pillows or towels can be used inside the bass drum.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
I would spend some time looking at Youtube videos on Drum Tuning. You will get differing opinions but take them all in and decide for yourself. It's difficult to tell you in words.
 

Mongrel

Silver Member
Not always true. I was taught by an old school jazz guy a long time ago that the reso give the drum it's body, the batter gives attack and note. Loose reso for thuddy, tight reso for boingy. Been tuning this way forever, my toms are low and thuddy, no moongel or tape. A tight reso always is a myth.
Yep there is always "one"....(big) lol...

Rewind tape....there it is-"typically"....

Synonym-"generally", "commonly"

But thanks for pointing out that there is a third option...

;)
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
I don't disagree that new heads (especially on top) would make a big difference but I suspect that most of the issue is the huge difference between the clean, concise sound of electronic drums vs. the big and messy sound of real drums.
 
Have ordered some new heads, hopefully will arrive tomorrow. Think i may have been spoilt with the electronic drums clinical sound lol
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Have ordered some new heads, hopefully will arrive tomorrow. Think i may have been spoilt with the electronic drums clinical sound lol
Yes, you are spot on with the E drum clinical sound. I'm so glad you understand that on your own.

Tuning overview: Not only do you have to "clear" 2 heads, (means tuning out unwanted frequencies) but the pitch relationship between those 2 heads is also critical. So there's 3 things to coordinate. Clearing a head and tuning it to desired pitch, (another rabbit hole) once for each head, and then there's the absolutely critical relationship between both heads.

Real drums are full of wild. A drum could be one of the hardest instruments to tune. A set of drums is even harder. So just know that tuning a drum isn't something you can pick up in an hour. There's no real standard like the other instruments. It's like the wild west in that regard. Tune bots help a lot of folks.

Tuning a circular membrane to get the head "cleared" is tricky. Getting 2 opposite circular membranes to cooperate together to produce a pleasing tone is tricky squared. Two headed drums display a naturally occurring phenomenon known as phase cancellation or comb filtering. This is where the frequencies from the top and bottom head combine in such a way that they cancel each other's frequencies out, bad. It has to do with the frequency blend of the 2 heads, the frequencies are either de-structive or con-structive frequencies, or a combination of the 2. We want all constructive frequencies and no destructive (phase cancelling) frequencies ideally. Tuned to a certain pitch range. You can see how tricky that can be. If my drum is in a "phase cancellation zone" of tuning, (which is normal, it's supposed to happen) all I have to do is change the tension on one head and the drum will come alive.

You are imprinted with a drum sound that your A drums won't be able to reproduce naturally. So you have to throw out what you think you like as far as drum sounds go, and start over with a fresh new ear and a sense of adventure because tuning A drums is a rabbit hole for sure.
 
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MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Yep there is always "one"....(big) lol...

Rewind tape....there it is-"typically"....

Synonym-"generally", "commonly"

But thanks for pointing out that there is a third option...

;)
Yeah I'm not the only "one" who tunes this way.

Think about the names of the heads. Batter: the one you batter, or hit. Resonant: the one that resonates, gives the drum it's shape.

Your drum sound like a basketball? Tune down the reso. But thanks for trying to educate me on something I've been doing for almost 30 years.

There's always one...lol
 

Mongrel

Silver Member
Yeah I'm not the only "one" who tunes this way.

Think about the names of the heads. Batter: the one you batter, or hit. Resonant: the one that resonates, gives the drum it's shape.

Your drum sound like a basketball? Tune down the reso. But thanks for trying to educate me on something I've been doing for almost 30 years.

There's always one...lol
Ok....I have a little time let's play shall we? Lol

1. Who said *anything* about a TIGHT reso? No one even suggested such a thing. You read that into my post.

2. Where did the OP say they wanted a "thuddy" tuning?

3. Who is trying to educate you? You did not ask for help. Am trying to help the OP, not indoctrinate you on tuning methods lol.

If-*if* you followed my directions to detune down to finger tight then tighten one half to one full turn on the batter, and then tuned your reso equal to or slightly higher you will NOT have a "basketball" sound. Period...

Equal or slightly higher reso tunings are THE normal tuning setting suggestion in the MAJORITY of tuning guides.

Never said a lower pitched reso won't work for some people, just stated the "generally" accepted view.

To steer a newbie away from "generally" accepted practice is not the best way to get them to a good starting point for tuning...in my opinion of course. My goal was to give the OP a basic place to start that would get him or her close to a usable tuning without having to read or watch videos *if* they just wanted to get going with their new kit.

Doing something for "30 years" doesn't change any of this.

I truly wish you the best, and like I said, always good to have a third option.

Take care
 
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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Loose reso tight reso...it's all good and falls under personal preference. There should be no "should" with tuning lol.

Drums are like food. What tastes good to one person may very well repulse a 2nd person.

It's all good, yay diversity.
 

trickg

Silver Member
You are definitely used to the processed sound you get from the V-drums. Pick up a set of Evans E-Rings - I know that some people think they are of the devil, but I use them - you want to control the resonance of your drums, and that will help give you the processed sound you are used to hearing.

For the kick drum, port the front head, use some internal dampening (someone suggested a rolled up towel touching both heads) and get an Evans EMAD.

Then tune, tune, tune. And Moon Gel.
 

TMe

Senior Member
Any ideas of where to start would be great.
It takes a while to figure out what you want to do with the Tunebot. I can't tune without one.

You could google for drum tuning videos by Kenny Sharrets. I found those useful, as well as tuning videos by Rick Beato.

Partly, it's a matter of getting used to the sound of acoustic drums. I'd start by wearing earplugs when you're tuning, so you're not too distracted by all the high overtones. Those are a fact of life for acoustic drums and you'll get used to them. They make the kit sound better when playing with a band, but can be annoying when playing alone. Someone standing 10 feet away might not hear all the high, whining sounds that you hear behind the kit, so try not to be too picky.

If you're like most people, you'll probably prefer a very damp (muffled) sound at first, until you get used to the sound of an acoustic kit.

And... some rooms are merciless for drums. No matter what you do, if the room has ugly acoustics, the drums are going to sound rough.
 
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