...for the jazz cats ...

8Mile

Platinum Member
Since this is a wide open jazz thread, I want to throw in that cymbals have been big on my mind lately-- I've been making a big change in direction in that department. In the last 7 or 8 years I had been increasingly going for thinner, softer cymbals, as I was refining my technique and ability to play quieter, setting up a kind of death spiral of way-too-delicate playing. It came to a head around the time of this gig, when I realized I wasn't being heard, and there was a weird distortion happening in the ensemble dynamics. After that I got a old 3200g 22" Paiste 602 dark ride-- a total monster by current standards-- which actually projects, and provides a nice cushion for bringing my sound back into a realistic zone. And when you crash on it, they hear it, by God. At the Ballard Jazz Festival recently the contrast was really stark-- I got to hear several drummers playing unmiked in the same long room, and none of the thinner K-type cymbals were cutting at all-- the performances were lost. From the playing position they sound like Tony on Four & More; out front, sadly, no...

So, now I'm running around Portland telling everyone to get heavier cymbals, at least for live playing, and my brother's doing the same thing in Seattle, hoping to start a regional movement. I just wanted to throw that out there, and see if anyone has had similar feelings/suspicions...
Interesting take on cymbals. My new main ride, a 22" K-Con Medium, hasn't seen a gig yet, so I don't know how it will project FOH. Some of the venues I've played jazz have been wine bar-type places where brick floors and boom-y acoustics make a cymbal that speaks with a softer voice ideal.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
couldnt care less about its heyday being behind us , ahead of us , or on Mars for that matter

I love jazz, I know where to go to find people who love it as much as I do and want to hear it , talk about it, and live it

honestly Im not as big of a fan of the more modern stuff ....I like it....my thing is the classic sound ...never gets old to me

Ive been around quite a while myself, and they way you describe jazz is how I feel about rock music and its scenes

its so damn tired and boring, and new generations keep coming with there Louisville sluggers and clobbering that dead horse ....just wearing different clothes with a new haircut

not sure how many times I can listen to that same old song without wanting to strangle someone

I dont want to be jaded, and swore to myself when I was young that it would never happen to me ...but years of touring, dealing with record companies, managers, promoters, half ass musicians who learn a power chord and want to take over the world, seeing just horrible horrible bands blow up and praised over and over, learning how the industry is really run ...just sort of ruined the love for me

It feels good to return to playing for the love, and being around people who listen and play for the love

...and anyone who ventures into music to make money to begin with needs their damn head examined
I can really relate to a lot of this, GVD. I get out and see live jazz as often as I can and there's no place where I feel more at home than surrounded by people who love and play the music.
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
couldnt care less about its heyday being behind us , ahead of us , or on Mars for that matter

I love jazz, I know where to go to find people who love it as much as I do and want to hear it , talk about it, and live it

honestly Im not as big of a fan of the more modern stuff ....I like it....my thing is the classic sound ...never gets old to me

Ive been around quite a while myself, and they way you describe jazz is how I feel about rock music and its scenes

its so damn tired and boring, and new generations keep coming with there Louisville sluggers and clobbering that dead horse ....just wearing different clothes with a new haircut

not sure how many times I can listen to that same old song without wanting to strangle someone

I dont want to be jaded, and swore to myself when I was young that it would never happen to me ...but years of touring, dealing with record companies, managers, promoters, half ass musicians who learn a power chord and want to take over the world, seeing just horrible horrible bands blow up and praised over and over, learning how the industry is really run ...just sort of ruined the love for me

It feels good to return to playing for the love, and being around people who listen and play for the love

...and anyone who ventures into music to make money to begin with needs their damn head examined

Fair enough. It's funny -- I don't even think in terms of "rock scenes" because they're non existent! lol I guess outside of NYC guys are still doing ZZ Top and Rolling Stones covers in bars and I have about as much interest in doing that as having dental surgery performed by a chimpanzee.

I agree about the classic jazz vs the modern. I tease trumpet players and say "The second that bullet went through Lee Morgan's heart, they should have stopped manufacturing trumpets!"

I did weddings for years because it was a way to make money and a way to play lots of different types of music, but I'm done with that as well. I guess that's what happens. You lose the interest of anything when it gets old. Right now I love recording. Maybe to someone else THAT is old. But you have to find your Muse where and when you can.

And now I think I'm going to play some upright bass to some Miles. Ya got me in the mood. : )




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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Fair enough. It's funny -- I don't even think in terms of "rock scenes" because they're non existent! lol I guess outside of NYC guys are still doing ZZ Top and Rolling Stones covers in bars and I have about as much interest in doing that as having dental surgery performed by a chimpanzee.

I agree about the classic jazz vs the modern. I tease trumpet players and say "The second that bullet went through Lee Morgan's heart, they should have stopped manufacturing trumpets!"

I did weddings for years because it was a way to make money and a way to play lots of different types of music, but I'm done with that as well. I guess that's what happens. You lose the interest of anything when it gets old. Right now I love recording. Maybe to someone else THAT is old. But you have to find your Muse where and when you can.

And now I think I'm going to play some upright bass to some Miles. Ya got me in the mood. : )




........
that actually made me really happy that this conversation got you in the mood to pluck the cables

...but yeah bro....rock scenes are actually rabid right now....but its back to the grass roots style bypassing promoters and labels (which is actually kinda cool)... legion halls , and underground clubs with no liquor license ....these kids are packing these places and buying thousands of dollars in merch and losing their minds

the problem ...the bands SUCK !!!
 

groove1

Silver Member
Ref jazz ride cymbals....I just got an idea a couple weeks ago that made me kick myself...how did I not think of this decades ago? That is, play with 2 different sticks that
are similar but have different beads especially. I can "simulate going to another ride" by
simply switching sticks hand to hand during the tune. Original idea for me (even though
I've mixed and matched sticks with brushes, beaters etc...just never played with an unmatched pair of drumsticks before). This has been a game changer for sounds I can get
from my set, er..uh, kit.
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Ref jazz ride cymbals....I just got an idea a couple weeks ago that made me kick myself...how did I not think of this decades ago? That is, play with 2 different sticks that
are similar but have different beads especially. I can "simulate going to another ride" by
simply switching sticks hand to hand during the tune. Original idea for me (even though
I've mixed and matched sticks with brushes, beaters etc...just never played with an unmatched pair of drumsticks before). This has been a game changer for sounds I can get
from my set, er..uh, kit.
interesting

yeah like you said ive played one stick one brush, one stick one mallet, one mallet one brush, and even two different mallets.....but never two different sticks

something to think about for sure
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
that actually made me really happy that this conversation got you in the mood to pluck the cables

...but yeah bro....rock scenes are actually rabid right now....but its back to the grass roots style bypassing promoters and labels (which is actually kinda cool)... legion halls , and underground clubs with no liquor license ....these kids are packing these places and buying thousands of dollars in merch and losing their minds

the problem ...the bands SUCK !!!
The bands suck and the scene is really for the young. Kids need a place to get out there and suck for a while. There are some downtown clubs in NYC that have a few interesting bands (and a lot of crappy ones) and I'll play there now and then for kicks, but it really is for the young guys to cut their teeth. My teeth are worn out! lol! And nothing is going to come of it if you're over 35 anyway -- other than playing for playings sake. Trouble is -- I'm finding it harder and harder to find music that really thrills me enough to bother. That's the problem with getting older -- you become more discriminating but have less options!

Okay, back to the doghouse. (That instrument is impossible by the way).
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
The bands suck and the scene is really for the young. Kids need a place to get out there and suck for a while. There are some downtown clubs in NYC that have a few interesting bands (and a lot of crappy ones) and I'll play there now and then for kicks, but it really is for the young guys to cut their teeth. My teeth are worn out! lol! And nothing is going to come of it if you're over 35 anyway -- other than playing for playings sake. Trouble is -- I'm finding it harder and harder to find music that really thrills me enough to bother. That's the problem with getting older -- you become more discriminating but have less options!

Okay, back to the doghouse. (That instrument is impossible by the way).
yeah getting old and jaded sucks....Im there with you

whats going on with the doghouse ?....(havent heard anyone call it that in years by the way...its nice to hear )

is it an old finicky instrument ?.....or you mean just much harder to play being more used to electric bass?

do tell....that is one of my favorite sounding instruments on the planet
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
yeah getting old and jaded sucks....Im there with you

whats going on with the doghouse ?....(havent heard anyone call it that in years by the way...its nice to hear )

is it an old finicky instrument ?.....or you mean just much harder to play being more used to electric bass?

do tell....that is one of my favorite sounding instruments on the planet
I have a modest upright. It's insane that you can spend as much on a great one as the cost of a grand piano. The best bass I ever played was Scott Lafaro's -- didn't even know it was his. It had magic in it.

It's just a bear of an instrument. Very physically demanding. Very limiting. Very difficult to make audible. Intonation is a bitch (unless you're Scott LaFara). But it has a beauty to it.
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
I have a modest upright. It's insane that you can spend as much on a great one as the cost of a grand piano. The best bass I ever played was Scott Lafaro's -- didn't even know it was his. It had magic in it.

It's just a bear of an instrument. Very physically demanding. Very limiting. Very difficult to make audible. Intonation is a bitch (unless you're Scott LaFara). But it has a beauty to it.

are you a smaller guy?.....I know it can be very difficult and physically demanding for small cats

I say this standing 5' 4" myself
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
are you a smaller guy?.....I know it can be very difficult and physically demanding for small cats

I say this standing 5' 4" myself

Nope. 5'10" 180. Not physically demanding in regard to overall strength, but more in regard to touch. Those little finger muscles must stay strong and loose and stretched. Oddly enough, it's in complete contradiction to playing guitar -- which requires a more subtle touch.

Sometimes, everything is working on all the instruments -- drums, bass, guitar, piano, upright, acoustic guitar -- and I'm one with the universe. Other times nothing is working, I suck ass and I feel I don't have a right to even own the damn things. Same with voice -- in good voice, it's exquisite, not in good voice -- good lord HIDE!

So is the life of an artist.
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Nope. 5'10" 180. Not physically demanding in regard to overall strength, but more in regard to touch. Those little finger muscles must stay strong and loose and stretched. Oddly enough, it's in complete contradiction to playing guitar -- which requires a more subtle touch.

Sometimes, everything is working on all the instruments -- drums, bass, guitar, piano, upright, acoustic guitar -- and I'm one with the universe. Other times nothing is working, I suck ass and I feel I don't have a right to even own the damn things.

So is the life of an artist.
true that brother.....as sure as the moon pulls the tides ....we will go up and down
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
do any of you have the record "Money Jungle" from 1962?

a rare trio of

Duke Ellington
Max Roach
& Charles Mingus

if not you need to get it....out of this world
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
do any of you have the record "Money Jungle" from 1962?

a rare trio of

Duke Ellington
Max Roach
& Charles Mingus

if not you need to get it....out of this world
Yes. Interesting. Surprisingly "out" for Max and Duke.
 

davidr

Senior Member
I was a rock guy for most of my life and for the past 2 years have pretty much dedicated almost all my drumming efforts to jazz.

I though it would be cool to have a thread for the jazz cats .....

guys like 8mile, Andrew Hare, Numberless and the like to come and talk about all things jazz

things you are working on, listening to, gear, gigs, blog entries, books, drummers, concerns , revelations, whatever......

this way those who dont enjoy jazz dont have to come here and everyone is happy

who knows...maybe Chunky will start one for the metal cats......and Joe Morris, one for the funk cats ......

lets see how it works out

what say you guys ?
I just started the art of bop, about half way through. I intend to dedicate the next 2 years (maybe more) on jazz and nothing else. I'm finding it hard at the moment to solo, which hopefully art of bop will help me with when I get to that section. My biggest problem is finding anyone to play jazz with
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
do any of you have the record "Money Jungle" from 1962?

a rare trio of

Duke Ellington
Max Roach
& Charles Mingus

if not you need to get it....out of this world
Yeah, my buddy and I listened to that record religiously for a period of time many years ago. It's incredible music, cats from different eras and styles coming together to brew up something great.
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
I just started the art of bop, about half way through. I intend to dedicate the next 2 years (maybe more) on jazz and nothing else. I'm finding it hard at the moment to solo, which hopefully art of bop will help me with when I get to that section. My biggest problem is finding anyone to play jazz with
keep working brother

and we are here to help you along with anything you need

we are on the same journey......all at different places on the that journey....but the same journey no less

my immediate advice.... listen to lots of jazz

we would all be glad to make suggestions on that as well
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Yeah, my buddy and I listened to that record religiously for a period of time many years ago. It's incredible music, cats from different eras and styles coming together to brew up something great.
Im floored by that collaboration

the first cut sounds like the creation of hip hop....and Mingus is out of his mind

love it
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
...what say you guys ?
Well, I'm a rock guy deep in my heart too, but over the years I discovered other types of music and happen to love them as much as rock music.

I love jazz, but I'm no "jazz cat", that's for sure, and I doubt that I will ever be one.

I played in a jazz quartet once, a long time ago, the others liked what I did, but I didn't, I felt like a fish out of water, I couldn't get the right feel, the right context, so after a month, I left the band, I've never played in a proper jazz band since, only some bands with some jazz influences.
 
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