Endorsement Marketing Lies

synergy

Senior Member
Does this bother anyone else?

I get kind of annoyed over seeing pictures of Artists selling/ endorsing (however you want to word it) a certain company etc.

You listen to an album or recording and like the way that sounds- only to find out they never use their 'endorsement' equipment but their old standby that they love.

I have pictures of endorsees on stage very much linked to one company using other equipment.

I dont know who to feel more greived by - the endorsee or the company?

any thoughts guys


I have no problems with these guys using what they want, i have a problem with them using one thing and then sellling another- if you sell it- stand by it and use it
 
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trkdrmr

Guest
Well, the one that bothered me was Marco Minemann praising the pacific boa.

There is *NO WAY* the boa was the pedal he was waiting for, nor is it the pedal he ever uses.
 

Vipercussionist

Silver Member
Does this bother anyone else?

I get kind of annoyed over seeing pictures of Artists selling/ endorsing (however you want to word it) a certain company etc.

You listen to an album or recording and like the way that sounds- only to find out they never use their 'endorsement' equipment but their old standby that they love.

I have pictures of endorsees on stage very much linked to one company using other equipment.

I dont know who to feel more greived by - the endorsee or the company?

any thoughts guys


I have no problems with these guys using what they want, i have a problem with them using one thing and then selling another- if you sell it- stand by it and use it
You must take the "endorsement" with a large grain of salt. How many times have you heard that this or that drummer used a completely mismatched kit in the studio. I've seen on more than one occasion where drummers were touting their choice of a Gretsch kick drum in the studio, regardless of what other brands the rest of the kit was or what their endorsements SAID they were using.

We all remember Carmine Appice?? Using Ludwigs with the Slingerland logo heads?? L0L!! That WAS a bit much though.

I'm to a point now, where if it SOUNDS good, I'll use it. I'm predominantly Ludwig, BUT . . . I have one kit I'm working on that has a real mish-mosh of drums, a 14x28 Leedy single tension kick, a 10 inch Slingerland rack, a 13 inch WFL rack, and I'm looking for any old 16 inch floor tom. My only prerequisite was that they be all of the same old style WMP, and they had to SOUND great. So far so good.

I almost HOPE to get a floor tom in some other cool vintage brand like a Radio King, or a Gretsch or some other I don't currently have in the kit. I think it would be a HOOT!!
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
It's an old gripe for anyone who has ethics. Sadly, many endorsers have little (ethics), and some of the companies go along with it just so their name can be seen and therefore their advertising goal is accomplished. I disagree with that kind of behavior from both parties, and with the amount of amazing gear that the big companies offer, there's really no reason to switch things up.

I endorse only the products that I actually use, and my choices are never based on how much gear I can get for free, how often, or how many ads or clinics the company will provide. Those are all the wrong reasons to endorse a brand, yet many BIG drummers do it and routinely change endorsements as if it's just a business decision. But as more drummers become hip to those endorsers' game, their credibility as a spokesman goes out the window. You would think the companies are also wise to this, but those drummers just keep getting signed.

Not long ago, there was an instance with a HUGE band and a HUGE drum company, where the drummer was triggering every drum through a bank of modules. of course, the company's logo was proudly displayed on the kick... which nobody ever actually heard. Note: the drum sounds weren't augmented with samples - the audience was hearing samples only. It's hard to imagine that the drum company people visiting backstage (as they are known/entitled to do) weren't aware that something was up when they saw a bunch of triggers on their drums. Yet, the advertising value of the name on the kick was more important than the integrity of actually having their drums heard.

To me, that's just unacceptable. If my drums don't sound good enough to mic up, then I need different drums. If the gig calls for triggered drums sounds exclusively, then I would remove the logos and badges on my drums so that nobody would be fooled into thinking they were hearing xxx brand. And that's part of what makes me a good endorser - people can trust that when I say I use this and that... I really do.

Bermuda
 

Derek Roddy

DRUMMERWORLD PRO DRUMMER
Another thing you have to take into consideration is........
Gear rentals.
For instance....if a famous "endorsed" drummers gets a call for a studio gig...they might tell him..."don't worry about carting your kit...there's one here, miced and ready."
This saves studio time and budget.
Also, if said drummers takes a tour in short notice....for instance in South Africa.....Maybe South Africa doesn't have a distributor for the "endorsed" product. So...do you throw away a paying gig....because you can't get "your brand" of drum?
Of course not.
Part of being a qualified musician...to get an "endorsement"..... requires adaptation....some of that adaptation could be playing on gear you're not use to playing on, by no fault of your own.

Also, musicians are famous for changing their minds.
A new Pearl product comes to mind (as it's the most recent example I can think of) where said players are raving over a certain product...................then.
NOW.....They are back to what they were playing.

Just some examples...

Cheers,
D.
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
Well, the one that bothered me was Marco Minemann praising the pacific boa.

There is *NO WAY* the boa was the pedal he was waiting for, nor is it the pedal he ever uses.
I don't see it as a "conflict" because the BOA is still a "DW" product.
I have played those pedals and they are really nice, so he MIGHT be using them sometimes or a lot, depending on the application or what he feels like using.

Now, if he was using DW drums and talking up the 9000 but using the new Demon Drive, and you'd see pics of him with it over a period of time (as to it NOT being a one off rental pedal)...that's not too cool.
 
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trkdrmr

Guest
I don't see it as a "conflict" because the BOA is still a "DW" product.
I have played those pedals and they are really nice, so he MIGHT be using them sometimes or a lot, depending on the application or what he feels like using.

Now, if he was using DW drums and talking up the 9000 but using the new Demon Drive, and you'd see pics of him with it over a period of time (as to it NOT being a one off rental pedal)...that's not too cool.
The point for me, is that he never uses the boa, it's 9000 series he uses. There is no way we are going to see him clinic/record/perform using only the boa.

Sure, same company but it's like Joey saying he uses only export drums. Another falsehood.
 

Deathmetalconga

Platinum Member
You must take the "endorsement" with a large grain of salt. How many times have you heard that this or that drummer used a completely mismatched kit in the studio. I've seen on more than one occasion where drummers were touting their choice of a Gretsch kick drum in the studio, regardless of what other brands the rest of the kit was or what their endorsements SAID they were using.

We all remember Carmine Appice?? Using Ludwigs with the Slingerland logo heads?? L0L!! That WAS a bit much though.

I'm to a point now, where if it SOUNDS good, I'll use it. I'm predominantly Ludwig, BUT . . . I have one kit I'm working on that has a real mish-mosh of drums, a 14x28 Leedy single tension kick, a 10 inch Slingerland rack, a 13 inch WFL rack, and I'm looking for any old 16 inch floor tom. My only prerequisite was that they be all of the same old style WMP, and they had to SOUND great. So far so good.

I almost HOPE to get a floor tom in some other cool vintage brand like a Radio King, or a Gretsch or some other I don't currently have in the kit. I think it would be a HOOT!!
I agree. I don't put a huge amount of stock in endorsements. I look at the product specs and other factors. Who actually plays it is lower down on the list for me.
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
The point for me, is that he never uses the boa, it's 9000 series he uses. There is no way we are going to see him clinic/record/perform using only the boa.

Sure, same company but it's like Joey saying he uses only export drums. Another falsehood.
Only time will tell if we see him in clinics using the BOA.
I think he's coming to my neck of the woods, so I'll see what his list has on it.
You could be right, I'm not a huge MM follower, & you may be, but it is a possibility that he uses it, and it's not a NO WAY thing.
I'm not trying to be nit picky about it but, just saying NO WAY seems a little off since he did the 2 page spread ads that have run a few times in a couple different magazines.

Of course, Marco's BOA ad could be another DW Lie, like Neil Peart saying in ads (that have run for a while, & on his site) that he used a 22" bass drum for 33 years (or something like that) and not a 24" bass drum like he did with Tama for years, and had it listed as a 24 in the tour books I have, and in set-up charts, in MD.......but no one wants to talk about that....
 

Baddstuff

Senior Member
the fact that we live in a 'monkey see monkey do' society doesn't help. That's why celebrities of all kinds are paid big money to push a certain product whether they actually use it or not. Remember the flack when Michael Jackson was endorsing a soda he didn't even drink? That company wanted you to buy that brand of soda because that's what Michael allegedly drank, regardless of what YOUR taste buds wanted. Works more often than not which is why people get paid big bucks to endorse.

Take endorsements with a grain of salt. Just like your favorite musician made his own decision to use what he's using you should do the same. It's whatever works for you.
 

synergy

Senior Member
I understand there are issue with touring- special cirumstances etc.

My real beef are the ones that really dont use the stuff we see them covered over all the magazines.

I particurly destest the ones that you know damn well they would never play whatever they are pictured playing but we're expected to buy it because 'whoever' is playing it- 'Here look at the picture!'

My deal is- If you put your name to something- at least stand behind it- otherwise dont put your name on it.

I would love to be an endorser and I wouldnt care if they gave me some saucepans and few dented trashcans. If I put my name to something I would make sure I was comfortable being seen playing it.


But yes, I also understand the musicians have to eat......

Who's first in line to sell their soul?
 

synergy

Senior Member
I understand there are issue with touring- special cirumstances etc.

My real beef are the ones that really dont use the stuff we see them covered over all the magazines.

I particurly destest the ones that you know damn well they would never play whatever they are pictured playing but we're expected to buy it because 'whoever' is playing it- 'Here look at the picture!'

My deal is- If you put your name to something- at least stand behind it- otherwise dont put your name on it.

I would love to be an endorser and I wouldnt care if they gave me some saucepans and few dented trashcans. If I put my name to something I would make sure I was comfortable being seen playing it.


But yes, I also understand the musicians have to eat......

Who's first in line to sell their soul?
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Its is almost like TV commmercials where a product advertises 4 out of 5 doctors recommend brand X. Do they use it? Who knows. They were asked, would you recommend this product for bad breath, and they say yes. There are ads every month in DRUM Magazine for major cymbal brands with said drummer using ZXT or other and yet on the tube you see them using K's. Money talks, and we would have to see their contract to know if they were being true to the brand.
 

synergy

Senior Member
I understand there are issue with touring- special cirumstances etc.

My real beef are the ones that really dont use the stuff we see them covered over all the magazines.

I particurly destest the ones that you know damn well they would never play whatever they are pictured playing but we're expected to buy it because 'whoever' is playing it- 'Here look at the picture!'

My deal is- If you put your name to something- at least stand behind it- otherwise dont put your name on it.

I would love to be an endorser and I wouldnt care if they gave me some saucepans and few dented trashcans. If I put my name to something I would make sure I was comfortable being seen playing it.


But yes, I also understand the musicians have to eat......

Who's first in line to sell their soul?
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Do you think that every TV star uses all of the products they are paid to promote. Does John Boy Walton drive a Mercedes. I think that's his voice now in the commercials. Valeri Bertinelli is doing Jenny Craig and I bet she has a 3000 dollar a visit personal trainer. I understand what you are saying, but I don't feel that it is such a big deal. If you like drummer X, and think he uses Y product then you may try Y product. I trust my own ears and my wallet. Nobody but Bernhard likes Ringo more than me but I don't like Ludwig as much as Gretsch. Take a deep breath and move on. Ray Luzier plays DDrums and has a contract with DW pedals and hardware. You would have to see the contracts as I mentioned before.
 

Spreggy

Silver Member
This works in reverse, too. The company I work for started dabbling in having endorsers just recently (we're not drums). We've picked up a few endorsers so far, and it has been a somewhat disappointing experience. From grab-and-go type players who won't live up to their end of the agreement once they have an instrument by virtue of disappearing off the face of the earth (we call it the Perpetual Tour), to people who are the kindest, coolest cats who for some reason just can't seem to make time to do their part. So there may be reasons why the manufacturers' endorser statements may appear a bit canned, because there's a chance they kidnapped the artist while he slept and dragged him in front of a camera before he had a chance to wake up and fight back.
 

SharkyBait911

Senior Member
Its is almost like TV commmercials where a product advertises 4 out of 5 doctors recommend brand X. Do they use it? Who knows. They were asked, would you recommend this product for bad breath, and they say yes. There are ads every month in DRUM Magazine for major cymbal brands with said drummer using ZXT or other and yet on the tube you see them using K's. Money talks, and we would have to see their contract to know if they were being true to the brand.
I completly agree with this,
It's all about the money and that's not right
 

Timekeep69

Senior Member
I understand there are issue with touring- special cirumstances etc.

My real beef are the ones that really dont use the stuff we see them covered over all the magazines.

I particurly destest the ones that you know damn well they would never play whatever they are pictured playing but we're expected to buy it because 'whoever' is playing it- 'Here look at the picture!'

My deal is- If you put your name to something- at least stand behind it- otherwise dont put your name on it.

I would love to be an endorser and I wouldnt care if they gave me some saucepans and few dented trashcans. If I put my name to something I would make sure I was comfortable being seen playing it.


But yes, I also understand the musicians have to eat......

Who's first in line to sell their soul?
Do you mean to tell me that Lars Ulrich really DOESN'T play a Tama Rockstar??? :D
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Drummers have to eat too, right?
Of course. But it's not up to the drum companies to provide income for the drummer.

I have deals with Ludwig, Sabian, Evans, Vic Firth, Trick and others... and I still get my own gigs and generate my own income. I never signed up with a company because I thought they might provide either direct income, or exposure that would generate income. I pick the tools of my trade, and I pick the gigs as well.

Bermuda
 
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