Drummers with and without click tracks - analysis

thiscocks

Member
Interesting. Would like to see many more tracks on there however.

Maybe a bit of Toto, sting (with vinnie) and weckl...
 

burn-4

Senior Member
Doesn't necessarily mean they were recorded with a click track as it doesn't equate for things like beat mapping or quantizing which are used on probably 90% of records released nowadays if not more
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Yeah, I discovered that site a couple years ago and it's pretty cool. I've also used the feature that lets you upload your own music and plots it for you.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Very interesting! Thanks LZ.

As we all know, some genres are better suited to clicks and some are not.

Can't get the Echo Nest BPM Explorer to work at all. It says I/O error and I suspect my AVG Pro firewall is blocking it ... but I don't know how to let the app through without risking my online security in ways I don't know about.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Very interesting! Thanks LZ.

As we all know, some genres are better suited to clicks and some are not.

Can't get the Echo Nest BPM Explorer to work at all. It says I/O error and I suspect my AVG Pro firewall is blocking it ... but I don't know how to let the app through without risking my online security in ways I don't know about.
Polly,

Not sure what browser you're using, but I've never been able to get it to work with Firefox. It works okay for me with IE, though.
 

B-squared

Silver Member
That was fascinating! Definitely a 5-star post! Many thanks, LZ.

I think the Britney Spears case is an example of how perfect tempo isn't always desirable. In fact, I wonder if when we (musicians) use the term "overproduced", we are doing so because to our ears "perfect" tempo doesn't sound real. I wonder if subconsciously, "perfect" tempo is slightly grating to the human ear. From the results shown, it obviously isn't a naturally occurring phenomenon. John Bonham and Ringo weren't known for having tempo issues that I can recall.

I never cared much for Michael Jackson's stuff. I would love to run "Beat It" through the
Python program to see how it fares. I bet it's "perfect". I have never programmed in Python. I bet you could do the same thing in VBA. I will look into it. I'm not that great with VBA, but I work with a guy who is really good with it. I would love to do some investigation of my own.

Again, great, great post!!!!
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Polly,

Not sure what browser you're using, but I've never been able to get it to work with Firefox. It works okay for me with IE, though.
Nice idea.

Tried it and had the same thing with IE:
Problem java.io.IOException: Can't send command
:(
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
That was fascinating! Definitely a 5-star post! Many thanks, LZ.

I think the Britney Spears case is an example of how perfect tempo isn't always desirable. In fact, I wonder if when we (musicians) use the term "overproduced", we are doing so because to our ears "perfect" tempo doesn't sound real. I wonder if subconsciously, "perfect" tempo is slightly grating to the human ear. From the results shown, it obviously isn't a naturally occurring phenomenon. John Bonham and Ringo weren't known for having tempo issues that I can recall.

I never cared much for Michael Jackson's stuff. I would love to run "Beat It" through the
Python program to see how it fares. I bet it's "perfect". I have never programmed in Python. I bet you could do the same thing in VBA. I will look into it. I'm not that great with VBA, but I work with a guy who is really good with it. I would love to do some investigation of my own.

Again, great, great post!!!!
You can go here http://labs.echonest.com/click/ and enter any artist or song and it will plot the tune for you. The database of what they have is enormous.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
I get errors in both IE and Firefox there too. I starting to feel like the fattie sitting alone while everyone else is dancing :(
Yikes, I'm not sure what could be wrong, Pol. It's probably your firewall blocking the java. Those damn interwebs sure can mystify....
 

B-squared

Silver Member
Thanks 8, I'll give it a shot. I doubt I have "Beat It'" in my collection. Downloading it today might not be too easy (SOPA and all). We'll see.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Yikes, I'm not sure what could be wrong, Pol. It's probably your firewall blocking the java. Those damn interwebs sure can mystify....
They sure can ... according to a forum I found the answer is "Is it possible that you are behind a proxy? Your web browser may know about the proxy, but your java client may not."

Yeeha.

I know my ISP uses a proxy but I know nothing about java clients. Any smart people here who can do this?

Or ... if anyone would like to do me a favour, you could put the attached track through and I'd be slobberingly grateful :) It's sure to be a bumpy ride ... but how bumpy, I don't know.
 

Attachments

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
That's a crazy plot. I knew Bonham was known for being a bit all over the place on Since I've Been Loving You but I didn't expect that

http://labs.echonest.com/click/?songId=SOAFAQO12AF72A0CA2&artist=Led+Zeppelin&title=Since+I%27ve+Been+Loving+You
That's an eye opener ... just goes to show that evenness does not necessarily equal good.

Thought I'd check one of the studio players who's in a band ... Jeff Porcaro with Toto has this plot: http://labs.echonest.com/click/?songId=SOMHOLH12A8C135A0F&artist=Toto&title=Africa

Interesting how the shape in the chorus matches ... maybe a plotted click?

How about King Crimson's Epitaph? It's all over the shop..

http://labs.echonest.com/click/?songId=SOIQYYV132C0271ABC&artist=King+Crimson&title=Epitaph

Charlie Watts lives up to his rep - scores ranging from 88% to 100%, much higher than the Phil Rudd scores I've seen, which I didn't expect.
 

dale w miller

Silver Member
I saw this article awhile ago and I found it very interesting as well.

In this day and age, unfortunately we as drummers have been put in a corner regarding click tracks. It has become such an industry standard that people tend to forget all the classic albums with well respected drummers never came near one.

With the latest album my band is releasing shortly, we decided to go for more of a live feel. We tracked all the basics together without a click for all but 3 songs. Listening back, one additional song that we did not use a click may have benefited from using one considering its format. I think this is the way it should be decided, what is ultimately better for the song. Unfortunately this is not the industry standard nor what is allowed in most cases. To quote our fellow member Billy Ward, "today, many producers produce with their eyes and not their ears." So be the industry.
 
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