Does it bother you...

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
when drummers ride really loud on a crash cymbal during a verse? Or even a solo?

I get annoyed by it. It just smacks me as lazy. It's harder, but it would sound MUCH better, to do that wash on sloshy hi hats. JMO. It's easier to fill all the space with riding on the crash, but to my ears, it's just obnoxious. It makes me think the drummer is a barbarian.

I can't really help how it affects me, I was wondering what the general consensus is here.

I will concede that some songs really benefit from that kind of wash. I just would prefer it on the hi hats, not the cymbal. Reminds me of teenagers who got their first set and don't yet possess any finesse.

I'm probably walking through Hell in a gasoline suit here, but this has been weighing on my mind for many minutes now :)
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
when drummers ride really loud on a crash cymbal during a verse? Or even a solo?

I get annoyed by it. It just smacks me as lazy. It's harder, but it would sound MUCH better, to do that wash on sloshy hi hats. JMO. It's easier to fill all the space with riding on the crash, but to my ears, it's just obnoxious. It makes me think the drummer is a barbarian.

I can't really help how it affects me, I was wondering what the general consensus is here.

I will concede that some songs really benefit from that kind of wash. I just would prefer it on the hi hats, not the cymbal. Reminds me of teenagers who got their first set and don't yet possess any finesse.

I'm probably walking through Hell in a gasoline suit here, but this has been weighing on my mind for many minutes now :)
*flicks lighter* Come here, Larry...

In honesty, it depends on the music. I'm thinking of some Godsmack here, where it fits perfectly, IMO.

It doesn't fit everywhere, and I don't think of it as lazy, anyway. It's harder to lift your arm up to the crash cymbal than to wuss out on the sloshy hats. I mean, they're right THERE...
 

Destroyer772

Gold Member
when drummers ride really loud on a crash cymbal during a verse? Or even a solo?

I get annoyed by it. It just smacks me as lazy. It's harder, but it would sound MUCH better, to do that wash on sloshy hi hats. JMO. It's easier to fill all the space with riding on the crash, but to my ears, it's just obnoxious. It makes me think the drummer is a barbarian.

I can't really help how it affects me, I was wondering what the general consensus is here.

I will concede that some songs really benefit from that kind of wash. I just would prefer it on the hi hats, not the cymbal. Reminds me of teenagers who got their first set and don't yet possess any finesse.

I'm probably walking through Hell in a gasoline suit here, but this has been weighing on my mind for many minutes now :)
Im kinda with ya, but some songs seem to favor that towards the end, when i do it, which im no show drummer i do it on a 12in k crash of mine. Much easier on the ears.
 

Icetech

Gold Member
Verses and solos are easily the best time to crash... you stand out more and people notice you! Plus the rest of the band will always have something to say about it afterwards.. which means you are getting noticed and doing your job!
 

DrummerCA35

Senior Member
Don't mean to get off topic, and the probably isn't answering the question, but...

It's my own personal preference, but I usually don't prefer sloshy hats or riding on a crash cymbal. In face, I seldom even ride on a RIDE cymbal anymore. I play my hats, or my closed hat (fairly right) or sometimes the bell of the ride cymbal.

The exception to this being when I fill in with a band that plays some blues/swing here and there such as "Route 66", "Rocket 88" and that kind of thing.

About the only time I "ride" a crash cymbal is at a "shoot-your-wad" ending where I'm playing 16th notes on the bass drum while playing 16th notes on the edge of the crash.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I don't ride on crashes with individual hits, but I do do the cymbal wash thing where you can't hear any hits, just a wash. On Neil Young's "Cinnamon Girl" there's a section where Neil is soloing over one note mostly and I am washing the crash. Only I am keeping the volume to about 25% of the cymbal volume so as not to screw with the balance of the drums in relation to the rest of the band.

I've always maintained that generally speaking, and with many exceptions of course, that the drummer should NOT be the loudest instrument onstage. When there's a lead, the lead should be the loudest When there's a vocal, the vocal should be the loudest. This has served me well over the years, and is what works for me.

Riding on the crash too loudly really annoys me. I'd rather hear the drummer really lay into the hats like Stewart Copeland does near the end of "Driven to Tears". He is really punishing the hats and it sounds stellar.

Just my opinion, not out to change minds. I just wanted to hear others thoughts on the matter.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Don't mean to get off topic, and the probably isn't answering the question, but...

It's my own personal preference, but I usually don't prefer sloshy hats or riding on a crash cymbal. In face, I seldom even ride on a RIDE cymbal anymore. I play my hats, or my closed hat (fairly right) or sometimes the bell of the ride cymbal.

The exception to this being when I fill in with a band that plays some blues/swing here and there such as "Route 66", "Rocket 88" and that kind of thing.

About the only time I "ride" a crash cymbal is at a "shoot-your-wad" ending where I'm playing 16th notes on the bass drum while playing 16th notes on the edge of the crash.

I hear you. I ride on the ride cymbal a very small percentage of the time too. I like the hi hats in all their different uses. But sometimes nothing but a ride will do. The Door's "Riders on the Storm" for instance. I feel the ride diverts attention from the singer in most cases. It seems to step on their frequencies more than the hats. I like to disappear somewhat when the singer is on mic. They like the feeling that they have the total floor.
 

DrummerCA35

Senior Member
I hear you. I ride on the ride cymbal a very small percentage of the time too. I like the hi hats in all their different uses. But sometimes nothing but a ride will do. The Door's "Riders on the Storm" for instance. I feel the ride diverts attention from the singer in most cases. It seems to step on their frequencies more than the hats. I like to disappear somewhat when the singer is on mic. They like the feeling that they have the total floor.
Yes, there ARE times when you need to ride a ride cymbal (ha!) and I can see that in the example you gave.

In my current band it seems to mostly dance music and I try to play tight and in the pocket and funky and I just go for the tight hi-hat sound or sometimes bell of the ride cymbal. But like your Doors song...when I filled in with another band, they played Route 66, and I played a swing pattern on the ride, and it felt MARVELOUS! It was such a refreshing change.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
I tend to use the bell on the ride in those situations, I like the more musical sound and the definition I get.

What other drummers do never bothers me, we are all individuals and do our own thing.
 

trynberg

Senior Member
... and I am washing the crash. Only I am keeping the volume to about 25% of the cymbal volume so as not to screw with the balance of the drums in relation to the rest of the band.
I usually do something similar, on a larger crash which makes for a darker roar kind of wash.

Keep in mind that there are a large number of rock songs where riding on a crash was done by the original drummer, so I fail to see anything wrong with it. Perhaps you are more referring to someone bashing the sh*t out of a power crash? (although even that has its place in some music)
 

Seafroggys

Silver Member
I always thought that riding a crash was pretty obnoxious too, kinda seems to be a modern thing. Open hi-hat is perfect for me for getting a thick washy sound.

I do occasionally do ride the crash, but that's for when I really need to escalate intensity. Oh shit, ride isn't enough, open hat not enough, gotta do it on the crash! When you see me do it, you know I mean business.

What's even worse? Riding a china.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
It's an option we have as drummers. The soundscape it creates is totally and completely different from washing hats. If your song calls for a "big" or "full" wash sound, hats or ride might not cut it, and you wouldn't be serving the song.

Larry, you're usually the first one to think about the song first and your own whims never. Why let this one whim or negativity take away or even diminish from one of your options on a basic drum kit?
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
Larry, I don't quite understand the term sloshy hit-hats; is that the Mersey Beat sound that Ringo used to do? Bonham does a sort of Mersey Beat on Communication Breakdown.

Like Steve Jordan explains here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NswliqEAWk&index=28&list=PLDUbm6H4qKIqtjX5kodCYsGbOEyOOPvcm
What's not to get about sloshy hats? Loosen them by lifting your foot just a bit so they still touch, but barely, then hit them hard enough that you get a "sloshy" sound that can be used for a "full" sound when compared to closed hats. That video has a fine example. Just loosen up and keep riding.
 

GeoB

Gold Member
What's not to get about sloshy hats? Loosen them by lifting your foot just a bit so they still touch, but barely, then hit them hard enough that you get a "sloshy" sound that can be used for a "full" sound when compared to closed hats. That video has a fine example. Just loosen up and keep riding.
That's what I figured, just curious & I never heard the term sloshy hats before... but it makes sense. Mersey Beat gives it definition, and historical reference.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
When I started playing drums many years ago, rides were rides and crashes were crashes. I had never heard of a crash ride. Rides were for keeping time and crashes were for accents. Music has changed and there are now 100 more genre than at that time. I don't like seeing 1/8th note and 1/4 note constant crashing as riding but that's where we are. I also don't like playing songs where the snare is played on every 1/4 note in 4/4 time.
 

SquadLeader

Gold Member
Riding open hats sounds totally different than riding a crash cymbal. I don't understand how riding hats is an alternative to riding a crash.

I ride crash cymbals often. We're a 3 instrumentalist punk band and the hole needs filling (ooer). Hardly ever hit my hi hat. I find hi hat really quite dull. I don't even know why I have one...be better using my left foot to trigger a kazoo or something. At least it would sound a little interesting.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
Right, but just to make sure there's no confusion: It's not the "Mersey beat" any more than kick on 1 and 3 is the "billie jean beat"... That beat just happens to employ sloshy hat playing along with the other parts of the beat.
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
It's an option we have as drummers. The soundscape it creates is totally and completely different from washing hats. If your song calls for a "big" or "full" wash sound, hats or ride might not cut it, and you wouldn't be serving the song.
This ^^^

Like a painter, we have a broad palette of colours, sometimes a harsh, in your face colour and vibe is what's the painting needs, it's not about laziness or what could have looked better from another artist point of view, it's the painter statement, his/her choice of what feels right for the artwork, any appreciation by audiences of the painting thereafter is very subjective, there's no set rules.

Some drummers rides on their china cymbals, that's even more trashier than a crash.

So, no, it doesn't bother me the slightest.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
Riding open hats sounds totally different than riding a crash cymbal. I don't understand how riding hats is an alternative to riding a crash.

I ride crash cymbals often. We're a 3 instrumentalist punk band and the hole needs filling (ooer). Hardly ever hit my hi hat. I find hi hat really quite dull. I don't even know why I have one...be better using my left foot to trigger a kazoo or something. At least it would sound a little interesting.
What's interesting about this is that I listen to tons of punk, and I definitely hear a lot more hat riding than crash riding.
On that note, and in honor of Friday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be027j7JujI
 
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